Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Ratzlab]

Its always the same when CASH MONEY gets involved = be it your best friend or ex wife (lol) - Money CORRUPTS - unless the Mod is a Pro mod undertaken by a TEAM of pros AND fully bug free with support, Fully pro voiced over and Tons a hrs playtime - wtf are we paying for ????

 

I have been gamming for many many years now and Nexus is kinda a home for me (though be it i am a lurker and downloader only - i do rate files etc but i mostly i stay silent - ON THIS ISSUE I CANT DO THAT !!!!

 

Modding these fantastic role play games is whats its all about - from browsing, downloading and customizing your game - to the equal aspect of making the mods in the first place - ITS A PASSION

 

Those in the COMMUNITIES of different games (which do inter-relate) will surly agree with me that yes we do owe the modders a great deal of Q-DOS (pun intended) and yes if there is a "plz donate if u like" side to it then thats fine by me = BUT making a HOBBY a CASH EARNER is dumb (especially if you cant be community minded and make your mod stable and compatable with other mods) - Seriously if u want to do that then GET A JOB IN THE INDUSTRY - and yes making QUALITY Mods that are compatable and awsum might just HELP U GET THAT JOB !!!

 

All Said and Done I love Nexus - I have been here since its inception - I have never had a bad word or question for the direction/stance Nexus has give us - its not just the downloads its the free aspect of the forums and tutorials and also its the gateway to new modders to ask and learn - its so much more than a site for petty greed bags (that just NOT belong here) - i have seen nublets come here over the years and yep eventually make awsum must have mods, ALL THX TO THE COMMUNITY and Support Given (FREELY)

 

WTF are U MONEY Guys pissed about ??? - get with tradition or GET A FRIKKIN JOB !!!!

 

My 2cents if its worth that :P

 

EDIT: Before I get Flamed - Yes I have been known to use paypal on occasion !!!

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2015 by Ratzlab

[tobias100hawk]

This was exhausting to read. But I'm glad I did. Taking in something so passionately made, whether it be a song, a book, or a news post, is always so wonderful.

[samueladams17]

Alright I am going to keep this short, and I feel like I should post my opinion on the whole paid mods issue.

 

To start off, I am glad paid mods are gone off Steam. I would be happy to pay a FAIR amount of money for certain mods, (ex Falskarr, Wheels of Lull, Dragonbone Ebonsteel, Dragonbone Marauder). You get the picture, but I will not pay $5.00 for one weapon/ armor mod. Yes believe it or not I did see that on Steam, I also did not like the split Valve had in place. I might be misinformed, but everywhere I looked I saw a 75% for Valve, and 25% for the modder. How is that fair to the modder? They did ALL the work, all Valve did is make the creation kit/ host the mods. If I am going to pay for extra content it needs to be reasonably priced, and good quality. I think that Nexus has a better system in place with the "donate" button. This has also been posted to Steam, and again I WILL PAY FOR MODS!!! But it needs to be fairly priced, and high quality. Alright that's all I have to say, like it hate it whatever. I really don't care because this is my opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Edited April 30, 2015 by samueladams17

[samueladams17]

In response to post #24731409. #24731549, #24731554, #24731689, #24732049, #24732184, #24732424, #24765784, #24779599, #24779689, #24781584, #24788094, #24797939, #24801484, #24802179, #24802394, #24804749, #24805954, #24808504, #24813219 are all replies on the same post.

Nightasy wrote: Well, I didn't see a problem with paid mod content. I saw it not one bit different from a site such as Turbosquid or Daz3d. Not one bit different from any site where you buy 3d models. It's a trade, it's also a hobby and it's also a way to make a living. What I did see though that has made me decide to back off from modding for awhile, possibly forever was something much more appalling. I saw a bunch of posts and mods spring up that suggested mod authors didn't work hard on mods.

Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard. Developing a mod, 3d model, scripting, setting up esp files is an exceptionally tedious task. There is an abundant amount of work that is required to make mods. There is an abundant amount of learning that is required to make mods, from learning to use the available tools right down to understanding what a UV map is. I found many posts and those aforementioned mods quite belittling to modders and I'm sorry to say but that is what disgusted me. Not the pay system but the lack of appreciation being shown.

There was an abundant amount of work that went into developing the Creation Kit as well as setting up Skyrim so that it could be modded. There was an abundant amount of work that went into setting up a pay system on steam, setting up a workshop to support it. So much work went into the entire setup of Skyrim as well as the Creation Kit as well as the workshop as well as the mods that are developed for the game and it was all so very much under appreciated.

The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. There would have always been free mods. Mod authors would have had an additional option to also release paid mods but because of the many (mostly non-mod authors) thinking mod authors don't work hard, that Bethesda didn't work hard, that Steam didn't work hard, now we don't have that option. Mod author's have given so much for free and have never asked for anything in return. The one time we had a bone thrown our way and due to a lack of appreciation it was taken from us.

I'm sorry, but I've decided to pull down all of my mods while I think on this experience. I'm not quite decided as to how I feel about all that has happened. I suppose I just need some time to think and until I've come to a conclusion I won't feel comfortable providing support for my mods.

Best Regards.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: So you think you should be paid because you had to learn stuff? You find your hobby tedious? Perhaps you should find a new hobby.

digitaltrucker wrote: A is your privelege. I respect it, even though I disagree. I wish you the best and look forward to your return.

Cheers, friend!

falcor23 wrote: Sad to see you go, but this was bound to happen. Modders are going to leave because of this and the amount of attention this has gotten will bring more modders in. This has been a clusterf*#@ at best and will leave this community shattered for along time coming.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think one of the major issues surrounding all this was the way it was implemented. How about a mature thought out inquiry and discussion between developers, modders, contributors and users/testers would have possibly avoided this whole sham.

It is because of how this was done that my respect for Beth and Valve has been damaged and it is only with time and future experiences that this may improve.

Let us not forget that Nexus supports all games now. There will always be new developers.

popopipo wrote: I think the titles "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" were aimed at Valve and Bethesda, not at modders in general.

But yes, you have people who don't understand at all what modding is about, who just behave like consumers in the worst way. They were very loud during the shitstorm. They are the same people who complain a lot on the comment section.

I do believe this paying mod thing was a very bad idea, but I do show respect to all the time modders spent working to improve the game.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: A better option would be that people who donate get the latest updates first. This would encourage donations as well as encourage innovation by the modders. Greed is the only true evil in this world.

Zennethe wrote: So basically, a patreon-based model.

Tyerial12 wrote: Problem is all the good mods would be Pay to Use them leaving the free community with junk (not saying all mod authors will) then some will uploadfree mods sure but leave a spam box saying like my Mod Buy the full verison (insert link here) now making it a spam mod.

So as im saying the Free community of mods would die out because no one wants crap quailty mods or mods that get uploaded then abandoned.

I do support mod authors with a DONATE BUTTON but force me to pay for a mod that i can not test for more than 24 hrs hell no

Sometimes it takes awhile to find out the mods broken right were it should shine.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Some mods can destroy and corrupt save games too, unintentionally. I remember Imaginator, didn't find that one out for months then BAM! Save bloat and no more save game for you!

EDIT: Its fixed now btw and is an awesome mod.

etholas wrote: "MrJoseCuervo 0 kudos 12 posts
So you think you should be paid because you had to learn stuff? You find your hobby tedious? Perhaps you should find a new hobby. "

What a wonderful way to thank those who have contributed so much time and effort for the sake of others.

treota wrote: I would caution you against dumping your hobby because of other people, there will always be haters and horrible people no matter what you do, no need to pander to their bile.

"The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. " -There is really no way to say this for certain without sitting back and observing, it may have or may not have.

Having personally read a large portion of the posts on steam and elsewhere I can say for certain that most people were in full or partial support of the modders or just plain on the fence, the minority were unfortunately stirring the pot as they do and being general disgraceful human beings.

Nightasy wrote: I'm going to end on this note which I worded to another well-known modder.

I've always modded in the past for myself. I made mods I wanted for me and then shared them for free on the Nexus out of pure charity. Yes, I made the mods for selfish reasons but giving them away for free was just me being nice. I’ve even gone a step further with such charity on multiple occasions by catering those mods I gave away to fit the desires of the community. I don’t even use some of the body types I’ve converted my mods to work with but someone asked me to do it and I did.

What do we get for being nice? Nothing because nothing was expected as it was entirely an act of charity. We asked for nothing and with the exception of a simple thank you here and there, we got nothing in return. Though for all that charity that we offered and all that free stuff we just gave away, it was not without consequence. We built up and unknowingly supported the mentality that mod developers don't deserve anything and that all mods should be free. This was of course not our intent but that's what we did by releasing our mods out of charity. We are partially to blame for creating this mentality.

Since paid modding was taken away, I have taken the time to really consider the events that have transpired over this event. While I had not received any money from paid mods, eventually I would have because my work would have sold, of that I am certain. My free mods would have remained free and I had planned to also release a mod for free ever so often simply out of charity for those who could not afford my paid mods. Also because doing so would help keep the quality of my work well known. Such an act would have been like a trend and I can be fairly certain other authors that offered paid content would have taken to such a practice.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the anti-paid mod community just took money out of my pocket. That is how I see it and that is exactly what they did. For all my charity, this was the thanks that we modders have received. We had an opportunity to earn money doing something that we love to do but because we were so charitable in the past… the opportunity was ripped from our grasp. Gee, thanks a lot guys and gals... real uncool.

My free mods would have always remained free and I would have continued to throw a few more free mods out there from time to time. Now none of my mods are available, not even my free ones. Such charity caused me to lose an opportunity that would have been a ‘dream come true.’

Now it’s not the last you’ve seen of ol’ Nightasy. I’ll still make tutorials and teach people how to make mods. I’ll still continue to answer mod related questions but I won’t be one to give mine away. Not anymore, not after this. You can call it whatever you want but I call it being made aware.

Anyone can have any opinion they want about me regarding my stance. I am officially done responding to hate. I am officially done giving away my mods. Until paid modding has returned I will no longer offer free mods. I encourage other mod authors to take the same stance. Until we show that we deserve our freedom to choose we won't be heard. They all had a choice not to buy our mods and we should have a choice to offer them for free or for sale regardless of our percentage of the cut. I will not roll over, I will defend my rights as an artist.

Tanesis12 wrote: I agree with every point you've mentioned. Mod authors do deserve recompense for the time and effort they invest into their projects. Particularly those who incur costs while producing their Mods.

However I remain neutral becuase from a consumers point of veiw playing a modded Skyrim, or any future Bethesda game, could become an increasingly expensive hobby.

The money you have lost is much smaller than the overall cost for the consumers once you have taken Valves/Beths cuts out. Beths cut in particular made no sense to me at all, especially as they claimed it would be helping mod authers.

F.e If I ran £50's worth of mods then £12.50 would see its way to 30 mod authors and £22.50 to Bethesda and the consumer would be £50 + cost of game down.

Ultimately I think it was an attempt to place a culture of microtransaction mods in place for Beth's next game. The ultimate victims were the Mod authors who faced a quantity of unreasonable, undeserved and, quite frankly, idiotic BS for aspiring to believe they could make money from their hobby.

Nightasy wrote: @Tanesis12 - That is looking at the small picture. The reality is that the Purity mod would have generated the mod author over 1000 USD in 5 days alone. You can call that "a quantity of BS" but I call that 1000 USD. I know I could've easily been pulling in a couple hundred bucks a month at the very least.

The issue isn't the % that the mod authors were getting. The issue is that we had that right stripped from us. We had an opportunity stolen away from us. The majority of people opposed to paid modding weren't even modders. This is like fighting slavery in that we had no choice before but to offer all our mods for free but once we were given an option to make money it then became a matter of having the right to sell mods. Now this is a matter of our legal rights being taken away from us. We were legally being allowed to sell mods and now it has been made illegal to do so once again.

Nobody fought the matter before because no one suspected that Bethesda would support it. Once Bethesda did show that they supported modders selling their work they opened that door. You can't close that door, you just can't. Just like when slavery was made illegal in the north, you couldn't close that door and now slavery is illegal across the country. People should have the right to get paid for their work. Bethesda supports the modders having a right to choose whether or not they want to offer mods for a payment. This is because Bethesda is comprised of artists and artists believe in other artists having the right to sell their work.

That is the bare bones of it. This is a fight for artists rights to decide whether or not they want to charge for their work. Art can be free and art can cost money, that's how it should be. That Bethesda and Valve backed off is a shame because they let the fight against artists rights win. They threw modders rights under the bus and didn't stand their ground. That's metaphorically what they did. But freedom of choice wasn't given away over night. It's a matter of fighting for it and I have chosen my side because I am an artist and I believe in artists having rights. We should have the right to chose whether or not we want to sell a mod that we worked hard on and nobody, I MEAN NOBODY, should be allowed to take that right away from us.

Modders now need to band together and take a stand. We need to fight to get our rights back. We need to march, we need to voice, we need to petition and we need to strike. We didn't fight as hard because we didn't think we had to, we assumed that Bethesda and Valve would stand their ground in support of artists rights. As such Bethesda didn't hear us and only heard the anti-paid mod population. We were wrong to think that Bethesda and Valve would stand their ground and now we need to take action. I am striking by pulling out all free content for good until our rights are given back to us.

ChizFoShiz wrote: Stop trying to justify yourselves and your beliefs with this "we did it for you guys, that cut wasn't right" nonsense.

If that were the issue then it would have been at the forefront of every post, comment and spoken word, but it wasn't.

Whether that cut was fair or not was a decision to be made by the seller, nothing more and nothing less. Now that 25% is 0%, way to go, what a great renegotiation.

The system needed tweaking and policy changes, not an angry mob tearing it to the ground.

If somebody was giving away prints for free and you started seeing their other work in stores would you burn the place down and form a mob to crucify the author? Because that's exactly what happened here.

Frosticus14 wrote: You can still sell your mods, that right wasnt taken away. Put them up on your own website and charge for them. What was taken away was an easy to use marketplace. You are still welcome to see your art through other avenues just like any artist would.


I'm not opposed to payed mods, the price just has to be realistic in respect to the game. If the whole game is $50 then most mods should be around $0.25 up to maybe $5 for a massive overhaul with the vast vast vast manority being under $1. Imo

Stormaxel wrote: Point of these situations is that no one likes to be told what to do. I personally think both sides of the modding community are being down right selfish. For all of the mod authors out there who believe that endorsements are false. Your right to an extent, but there are others who wholeheartedly love what you do for them. In reality without both sides of the modding community mods would not and could not exist, Why? well its simple if you make a mod and say you hand it out for free, but there are a mass of script bugs in your mod that you didn't know about, well without the AND I QUOTE "Complaining little brats" you may have not seen those errors leading to your mod being forgotten. IF YOU WANT TO QUIT UNTIL SOME CAN PAY GO AHEAD, BUT I TELL YOU THIS, WATCH HOW FAR YOU WILL MAKE IT WITHOUT HELP FROM OTHER MODDERS OR THE COMMUNITY. WE ARE ALL A MASSIVE FAMILY HERE.

Tanesis12 wrote: Nightasy Sorry you miscontrued my meaning. I was refering by "a quantity of unreasonable, undeserved and, quite frankly, idiotic BS" as to mod consumers towards Mod authors. I was referring to some of the threats made to mod authors for wanting to monetise and I was defending mod authors in general.

I DO NOT REFUTE THE RIGHT FOR MODDERS TO MONETISE. I do however refute the method Beth chose.

The oppertunity for outright theft of mods, little protection for the buyers of modded content, Valves nonexistent moderation, no actual professional tech support etc all suggest a bullshit implimentation that it looked like Beth wanted to take the $$$$ while shouldering none of the responsibilities. I would also suspect that there were would be potential legal difficulties.

If Beth truelly wanted to allow mod authors the oppertunity to monetise for the good of the larger community then they would have engaged with journalists, they would have had roundtables with experienced parties and generally communicated more. I doubt they should have shrouded everything in NDAs.

Again I do not refute the right of modders to monetise. I think that the right of modders needs to be explored. More thoroughly though and not in a situation which feels like a cash grab by the developer but within a way that makes the consumer to feel valued and supported.

I apologise if I came across in an agressive way or you feel that I am against mod authors in general I am not.

WizardlyWerks wrote: I do believe the intent of "Give me money for no reason" and "Pay me to do nothing" was aimed at Valves 25%-75% policy not the developers of mods, a good majority of the people here who don't mod and don't put the countless hours into making mods are more than happy to support mod authors. We aren't interested in seeing mod authors removing content or to end they're modding career because of this incident. Hope you decide to come back.

This is in response to "Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard." I just want to point out that as far as I know those two mods were targeted at Valve, not the modders. We do realize that y'all put in quite a bit of effort into mods and do not want y'all to think that everyone thinks y'all don't work hard on your mods. Just wanted to point that out.

[Longhand]

I think that Nexus has sold itself short in the last few days. Nexus has control of a lot of extremely fine programming that brought some expensive vanilla games to life. I would never buy another Bethesda product if the ability to add a mod or two to the game were cut short. I realize that the ownership of the mods has remained with the programmers, but Bethesda (and Valve) should be extremely thankful that so many people have propped up their buggy vanilla flavors with mega-hours of enjoyment for so many people.

 

I don't see why the modders are only getting a quarter of the share, while Valve and Bethesda get the other three quarters, minus a tip for the door man. In my opinion, the fame of the game is directly correlated to the modders themselves, and they each and every one have products that they can be proud to display. (Well, maybe not each and every one, but a very high percentage! ;-' )

 

Finally, I would like to thank Nexus' daddy for taking the time to fully explain exactly what is going on. It was a very well written expose, and reveals his education! Great job!

 

[Tyerial12]

In response to post #24731409. #24731549, #24731554, #24731689, #24732049, #24732184, #24732424, #24765784, #24779599, #24779689, #24781584, #24788094, #24797939, #24801484, #24802179, #24802394, #24804749, #24805954, #24808504, #24813219, #24838234 are all replies on the same post.

Nightasy wrote: Well, I didn't see a problem with paid mod content. I saw it not one bit different from a site such as Turbosquid or Daz3d. Not one bit different from any site where you buy 3d models. It's a trade, it's also a hobby and it's also a way to make a living. What I did see though that has made me decide to back off from modding for awhile, possibly forever was something much more appalling. I saw a bunch of posts and mods spring up that suggested mod authors didn't work hard on mods.

Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard. Developing a mod, 3d model, scripting, setting up esp files is an exceptionally tedious task. There is an abundant amount of work that is required to make mods. There is an abundant amount of learning that is required to make mods, from learning to use the available tools right down to understanding what a UV map is. I found many posts and those aforementioned mods quite belittling to modders and I'm sorry to say but that is what disgusted me. Not the pay system but the lack of appreciation being shown.

There was an abundant amount of work that went into developing the Creation Kit as well as setting up Skyrim so that it could be modded. There was an abundant amount of work that went into setting up a pay system on steam, setting up a workshop to support it. So much work went into the entire setup of Skyrim as well as the Creation Kit as well as the workshop as well as the mods that are developed for the game and it was all so very much under appreciated.

The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. There would have always been free mods. Mod authors would have had an additional option to also release paid mods but because of the many (mostly non-mod authors) thinking mod authors don't work hard, that Bethesda didn't work hard, that Steam didn't work hard, now we don't have that option. Mod author's have given so much for free and have never asked for anything in return. The one time we had a bone thrown our way and due to a lack of appreciation it was taken from us.

I'm sorry, but I've decided to pull down all of my mods while I think on this experience. I'm not quite decided as to how I feel about all that has happened. I suppose I just need some time to think and until I've come to a conclusion I won't feel comfortable providing support for my mods.

Best Regards.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: So you think you should be paid because you had to learn stuff? You find your hobby tedious? Perhaps you should find a new hobby.

digitaltrucker wrote: A is your privelege. I respect it, even though I disagree. I wish you the best and look forward to your return.

Cheers, friend!

falcor23 wrote: Sad to see you go, but this was bound to happen. Modders are going to leave because of this and the amount of attention this has gotten will bring more modders in. This has been a clusterf*#@ at best and will leave this community shattered for along time coming.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think one of the major issues surrounding all this was the way it was implemented. How about a mature thought out inquiry and discussion between developers, modders, contributors and users/testers would have possibly avoided this whole sham.

It is because of how this was done that my respect for Beth and Valve has been damaged and it is only with time and future experiences that this may improve.

Let us not forget that Nexus supports all games now. There will always be new developers.

popopipo wrote: I think the titles "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" were aimed at Valve and Bethesda, not at modders in general.

But yes, you have people who don't understand at all what modding is about, who just behave like consumers in the worst way. They were very loud during the shitstorm. They are the same people who complain a lot on the comment section.

I do believe this paying mod thing was a very bad idea, but I do show respect to all the time modders spent working to improve the game.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: A better option would be that people who donate get the latest updates first. This would encourage donations as well as encourage innovation by the modders. Greed is the only true evil in this world.

Zennethe wrote: So basically, a patreon-based model.

Tyerial12 wrote: Problem is all the good mods would be Pay to Use them leaving the free community with junk (not saying all mod authors will) then some will uploadfree mods sure but leave a spam box saying like my Mod Buy the full verison (insert link here) now making it a spam mod.

So as im saying the Free community of mods would die out because no one wants crap quailty mods or mods that get uploaded then abandoned.

I do support mod authors with a DONATE BUTTON but force me to pay for a mod that i can not test for more than 24 hrs hell no

Sometimes it takes awhile to find out the mods broken right were it should shine.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Some mods can destroy and corrupt save games too, unintentionally. I remember Imaginator, didn't find that one out for months then BAM! Save bloat and no more save game for you!

EDIT: Its fixed now btw and is an awesome mod.

etholas wrote: "MrJoseCuervo 0 kudos 12 posts
So you think you should be paid because you had to learn stuff? You find your hobby tedious? Perhaps you should find a new hobby. "

What a wonderful way to thank those who have contributed so much time and effort for the sake of others.

treota wrote: I would caution you against dumping your hobby because of other people, there will always be haters and horrible people no matter what you do, no need to pander to their bile.

"The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. " -There is really no way to say this for certain without sitting back and observing, it may have or may not have.

Having personally read a large portion of the posts on steam and elsewhere I can say for certain that most people were in full or partial support of the modders or just plain on the fence, the minority were unfortunately stirring the pot as they do and being general disgraceful human beings.

Nightasy wrote: I'm going to end on this note which I worded to another well-known modder.

I've always modded in the past for myself. I made mods I wanted for me and then shared them for free on the Nexus out of pure charity. Yes, I made the mods for selfish reasons but giving them away for free was just me being nice. I’ve even gone a step further with such charity on multiple occasions by catering those mods I gave away to fit the desires of the community. I don’t even use some of the body types I’ve converted my mods to work with but someone asked me to do it and I did.

What do we get for being nice? Nothing because nothing was expected as it was entirely an act of charity. We asked for nothing and with the exception of a simple thank you here and there, we got nothing in return. Though for all that charity that we offered and all that free stuff we just gave away, it was not without consequence. We built up and unknowingly supported the mentality that mod developers don't deserve anything and that all mods should be free. This was of course not our intent but that's what we did by releasing our mods out of charity. We are partially to blame for creating this mentality.

Since paid modding was taken away, I have taken the time to really consider the events that have transpired over this event. While I had not received any money from paid mods, eventually I would have because my work would have sold, of that I am certain. My free mods would have remained free and I had planned to also release a mod for free ever so often simply out of charity for those who could not afford my paid mods. Also because doing so would help keep the quality of my work well known. Such an act would have been like a trend and I can be fairly certain other authors that offered paid content would have taken to such a practice.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the anti-paid mod community just took money out of my pocket. That is how I see it and that is exactly what they did. For all my charity, this was the thanks that we modders have received. We had an opportunity to earn money doing something that we love to do but because we were so charitable in the past… the opportunity was ripped from our grasp. Gee, thanks a lot guys and gals... real uncool.

My free mods would have always remained free and I would have continued to throw a few more free mods out there from time to time. Now none of my mods are available, not even my free ones. Such charity caused me to lose an opportunity that would have been a ‘dream come true.’

Now it’s not the last you’ve seen of ol’ Nightasy. I’ll still make tutorials and teach people how to make mods. I’ll still continue to answer mod related questions but I won’t be one to give mine away. Not anymore, not after this. You can call it whatever you want but I call it being made aware.

Anyone can have any opinion they want about me regarding my stance. I am officially done responding to hate. I am officially done giving away my mods. Until paid modding has returned I will no longer offer free mods. I encourage other mod authors to take the same stance. Until we show that we deserve our freedom to choose we won't be heard. They all had a choice not to buy our mods and we should have a choice to offer them for free or for sale regardless of our percentage of the cut. I will not roll over, I will defend my rights as an artist.

Tanesis12 wrote: I agree with every point you've mentioned. Mod authors do deserve recompense for the time and effort they invest into their projects. Particularly those who incur costs while producing their Mods.

However I remain neutral becuase from a consumers point of veiw playing a modded Skyrim, or any future Bethesda game, could become an increasingly expensive hobby.

The money you have lost is much smaller than the overall cost for the consumers once you have taken Valves/Beths cuts out. Beths cut in particular made no sense to me at all, especially as they claimed it would be helping mod authers.

F.e If I ran £50's worth of mods then £12.50 would see its way to 30 mod authors and £22.50 to Bethesda and the consumer would be £50 + cost of game down.

Ultimately I think it was an attempt to place a culture of microtransaction mods in place for Beth's next game. The ultimate victims were the Mod authors who faced a quantity of unreasonable, undeserved and, quite frankly, idiotic BS for aspiring to believe they could make money from their hobby.

Nightasy wrote: @Tanesis12 - That is looking at the small picture. The reality is that the Purity mod would have generated the mod author over 1000 USD in 5 days alone. You can call that "a quantity of BS" but I call that 1000 USD. I know I could've easily been pulling in a couple hundred bucks a month at the very least.

The issue isn't the % that the mod authors were getting. The issue is that we had that right stripped from us. We had an opportunity stolen away from us. The majority of people opposed to paid modding weren't even modders. This is like fighting slavery in that we had no choice before but to offer all our mods for free but once we were given an option to make money it then became a matter of having the right to sell mods. Now this is a matter of our legal rights being taken away from us. We were legally being allowed to sell mods and now it has been made illegal to do so once again.

Nobody fought the matter before because no one suspected that Bethesda would support it. Once Bethesda did show that they supported modders selling their work they opened that door. You can't close that door, you just can't. Just like when slavery was made illegal in the north, you couldn't close that door and now slavery is illegal across the country. People should have the right to get paid for their work. Bethesda supports the modders having a right to choose whether or not they want to offer mods for a payment. This is because Bethesda is comprised of artists and artists believe in other artists having the right to sell their work.

That is the bare bones of it. This is a fight for artists rights to decide whether or not they want to charge for their work. Art can be free and art can cost money, that's how it should be. That Bethesda and Valve backed off is a shame because they let the fight against artists rights win. They threw modders rights under the bus and didn't stand their ground. That's metaphorically what they did. But freedom of choice wasn't given away over night. It's a matter of fighting for it and I have chosen my side because I am an artist and I believe in artists having rights. We should have the right to chose whether or not we want to sell a mod that we worked hard on and nobody, I MEAN NOBODY, should be allowed to take that right away from us.

Modders now need to band together and take a stand. We need to fight to get our rights back. We need to march, we need to voice, we need to petition and we need to strike. We didn't fight as hard because we didn't think we had to, we assumed that Bethesda and Valve would stand their ground in support of artists rights. As such Bethesda didn't hear us and only heard the anti-paid mod population. We were wrong to think that Bethesda and Valve would stand their ground and now we need to take action. I am striking by pulling out all free content for good until our rights are given back to us.

ChizFoShiz wrote: Stop trying to justify yourselves and your beliefs with this "we did it for you guys, that cut wasn't right" nonsense.

If that were the issue then it would have been at the forefront of every post, comment and spoken word, but it wasn't.

Whether that cut was fair or not was a decision to be made by the seller, nothing more and nothing less. Now that 25% is 0%, way to go, what a great renegotiation.

The system needed tweaking and policy changes, not an angry mob tearing it to the ground.

If somebody was giving away prints for free and you started seeing their other work in stores would you burn the place down and form a mob to crucify the author? Because that's exactly what happened here.

Frosticus14 wrote: You can still sell your mods, that right wasnt taken away. Put them up on your own website and charge for them. What was taken away was an easy to use marketplace. You are still welcome to see your art through other avenues just like any artist would.


I'm not opposed to payed mods, the price just has to be realistic in respect to the game. If the whole game is $50 then most mods should be around $0.25 up to maybe $5 for a massive overhaul with the vast vast vast manority being under $1. Imo

Stormaxel wrote: Point of these situations is that no one likes to be told what to do. I personally think both sides of the modding community are being down right selfish. For all of the mod authors out there who believe that endorsements are false. Your right to an extent, but there are others who wholeheartedly love what you do for them. In reality without both sides of the modding community mods would not and could not exist, Why? well its simple if you make a mod and say you hand it out for free, but there are a mass of script bugs in your mod that you didn't know about, well without the AND I QUOTE "Complaining little brats" you may have not seen those errors leading to your mod being forgotten. IF YOU WANT TO QUIT UNTIL SOME CAN PAY GO AHEAD, BUT I TELL YOU THIS, WATCH HOW FAR YOU WILL MAKE IT WITHOUT HELP FROM OTHER MODDERS OR THE COMMUNITY. WE ARE ALL A MASSIVE FAMILY HERE.

Tanesis12 wrote: Nightasy Sorry you miscontrued my meaning. I was refering by "a quantity of unreasonable, undeserved and, quite frankly, idiotic BS" as to mod consumers towards Mod authors. I was referring to some of the threats made to mod authors for wanting to monetise and I was defending mod authors in general.

I DO NOT REFUTE THE RIGHT FOR MODDERS TO MONETISE. I do however refute the method Beth chose.

The oppertunity for outright theft of mods, little protection for the buyers of modded content, Valves nonexistent moderation, no actual professional tech support etc all suggest a bullshit implimentation that it looked like Beth wanted to take the $$$$ while shouldering none of the responsibilities. I would also suspect that there were would be potential legal difficulties.

If Beth truelly wanted to allow mod authors the oppertunity to monetise for the good of the larger community then they would have engaged with journalists, they would have had roundtables with experienced parties and generally communicated more. I doubt they should have shrouded everything in NDAs.

Again I do not refute the right of modders to monetise. I think that the right of modders needs to be explored. More thoroughly though and not in a situation which feels like a cash grab by the developer but within a way that makes the consumer to feel valued and supported.

I apologise if I came across in an agressive way or you feel that I am against mod authors in general I am not.

WizardlyWerks wrote: I do believe the intent of "Give me money for no reason" and "Pay me to do nothing" was aimed at Valves 25%-75% policy not the developers of mods, a good majority of the people here who don't mod and don't put the countless hours into making mods are more than happy to support mod authors. We aren't interested in seeing mod authors removing content or to end they're modding career because of this incident. Hope you decide to come back.

samueladams17 wrote: This is in response to "Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard." I just want to point out that as far as I know those two mods were targeted at Valve, not the modders. We do realize that y'all put in quite a bit of effort into mods and do not want y'all to think that everyone thinks y'all don't work hard on your mods. Just wanted to point that out.

as i agree with you but selling mods is not worth peoples time as for examples:

What if a mod author sold a mod that didnt work with other mods.. oh yeah 24hr refund waiitt. took a week to see it was broken! now im screwed

or Mod author makes a mod then later down the road stops working on it or charges for each update.. people were selling mods worth more than the game itself.

Not to mention it would of left the free commnity with crap mods or just mods we didnt need. Not everyone is rich and can afford all the mods in our load order

Now i do agree giving money to mod authors with a donate button is awesome but forcing us to pay for :it may work: mods its not a wise idea. some people like to try things out for 30days and if they dont like or is broke they can get there refund not 24hrs Edited May 1, 2015 by Tyerial12

[Tyerial12]

In response to post #24736679. #24737664, #24747479, #24750714, #24755589, #24757064, #24772654, #24776964, #24818569 are all replies on the same post.

UberSmaug wrote: So there is this thing called a "Craft Fair". Craziest thing. It this place where hobbyest go to sell their little do-dads, and funny little needle point kitty cat tissue box covers, And woodcrafts, and WORKS OF FRIGGIN ART!!!!!!!! They don't steal from each other's tables when the other person is not looking... Well some probably do but that's because some people are jerks, And want to take things because they somehow justify to themselves that they are entitled everything they see simply because.... they want it. Yeah some people are going to try to abuse the system. Just like somebody will try to abuse every system. Is that really a reason not to give this a try? It will not be perfect right away. And probably will never be "perfect". Nothing is. We will just have to respect each other and be honest in our actions. Those who betray that trust will be outed if we watch each others backs.

Why is modding any different from Wood Working Jewelry Making, Painting, Sculpture, Drawing, Music, Knitting, and countless other, hobbies for some, but for others they are more. For those willing to put in the hard work and dedication, make things of a professional quality, it can become a job. Maybe not your primary source of income but a nice secondary bump. Who cares if its not going to make you rich. You had fun while you were doing it right. This is not about being greedy.

All these posts about evil gaming companies trying to scam people and rip you off is the highest form of disrespect. If you cant understand that it makes me sad. If not for Bethesda and Valve and Nexus and all the others there would be no mods, let alone a game to play at all. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. If you think for one second the developers at these companies don't love games as much as you do than we are lost. That kind of thinking, not the money, will eat away at this community and the entire gaming industry.

Pro Paid mods. Is not Anti Free mods. Free mods should not go away. There are plenty of mods that just wont be able to jive with the paid model and they should not be eliminated. New modders need a place to get their feet wet. We need a place to get feedback on works in progress. If your mod doesn't make it to the market place you should have to option to releases for free. Trying to ban free modding would be a huge mistake. And IF that happens I guaranty you will see a modder strike

Why shouldn't we be able to sell our Art like any other Artist? People at these craft fairs all have a really good time and are supper nice to each other. They share ideas, help each other out, collaborate on projects. Teach each other techniques. Form lifelong friendships. FALL IN LOVE. Because they share a common interest. That is a Community. And the best kind of community where race, sexual orientation, religion, and nationality don't matter anymore. Because for once were not concentrating on what makes us different but what make us the same.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: If your work is worthy people will donate. If that's not good enough for you take up needle point.

Crashloop wrote: @MrJoseCuervo
In theory you are spot on, however theory doesn't match reality.. If I put up a ad saying I will take pictures for you, you donate money if you like my work and want to donate. How many would you think actually donated? As a hobby photographer I cannot and will not work for free unless it's benefits me. Majority of people want stuff for free it's that simple.

bungdorji wrote: I definetely agree, if your work has a best result, people will donate willingly, but if not im sure they wont

dpgillam wrote: A) craft fair people are selling a finished, stable, working product. Not a beta, not a "maybe" not a "well it works on MY computer" line of Bull. You want me to pay you for something that has a significant chance of not working. In the US (and most the civilized world) its illegal to sell defective goods knowingly, and anything based on skyrim's bugged up system is defective, by default.

B) Im paying you? Then I expect to get what I pay for. The mod had better look EXACTLY like the pictures (false advertising is a crime) I have the right to tech support (Federal lemon laws) For as long as the game is maintained you must keep your mod up to date. And, as poor Chesko found out, you have no control over your mod. Its not "ebul compnies" as you suggest, its simple business, and the fact that the average person is clueless enough to think the world works like they see on tv. :roll:

C) Craft fair people dont steal each other's "IP"? Ever notice how much nearly-identical garbage is strewn across the tables? We have thousands of magazines per hobby telling you how to make the junk that the flea marketers are selling. For there to be a fair comparison to modding, you would have to publish a magazine monthly with all the code for the best mods as freeware, deny the concept of IP ever existing, and THEN try to sell your art. You have a fantasy notion of craft fairs. a few people are as warm and fuzzy as your delusion. Most are just noral. And then there are the financially motivated. In all, you'll find the same attitudes and temperments as you find here.

UberSmaug wrote: I agree. IF you pay for something it should be of good quality. If you are selling something you should stand by it and provide support for your customers. False advertising is a crime, lemon laws and all that are good. I still support all of my free mods and will continue to do so. I've never said otherwise.

I was only trying to bring light to the fact that being a hobbyist should not exclude you from seeking profit for the things you produce. Its done everyday all across the world. If all mods are as broken as you imply why would you want them even if they are free. If skyrim is so bugged that all mods are junk why are you playing it at all.

Your last comment proves my point even more. Even with money involved people are still willing to share ideas, assist their fellow hobbyist, share assetss, make tutorials, look at each others work and say "awe man that's good but I bet I can improve on that." Some people sell kits for others to assemble and in turn sell again. Those financially motivated are sitting right next to those who are not. Yet the system still functions. Its not a fantasy, I may be hamming up the love and good will stuff a bit. That much warm and fuzzy makes me a little sick. But I'll settle for just moral.

I Ask again. How is modding any different? Why is ok for these people to sell their wares and we can not?

x9fallen wrote: I don't believe there is a corporation running the craft fairs and taking 75%. As someone who has donated getting close to $1k to various modders/content makers, that was my biggest complaint about the system.

Do I want to financially support modders when I can? Damn right. Do I want to give 75% of that money to Valve and Bethesda? Hell no.

UberSmaug wrote: Absolutely there is an organizer. And there is a vendor fee which is divided between that organizer and the venue where the event is held, be it a Church parking lot or a convention center. The amount of that fee varies greatly. In this case it is a flat fee, for mods it would be a percentage of total sales My question is not is the split fair or not. (Please read the Forbs piece and Bethesda blog concerning that if you have not already. Those numbers were not set in stone.)

After reading the Forbs and Bethesda blog I feel the absolute best split we could hope to see would be 30% valve standard digital distribution fee, 35% Bethesda 35% to the Modder. More realistically 40% Bethesda 30% Modder. Maybe service provider 5% is volunteered from the modders share. Mod authors would always be getting less than half but still more than a studio developer (counting in heath care and yada, yada, yada, evens that out a bit). and I am personally ok with that. To those who say they would pay for mods but this first offer is unfair. Would a 5%-10% increase to the modders + modders donate to service providers be enough to change your mind?

singlebelong wrote: @MrJoseCuervo
This "If your work is worthy people will donate" thought is really hurts, like after all the hard work I made a bunch of worthless junky mods.

========================

I'm so disappointed about this fiasco, maybe this is why my friends told me "modding is fool around. It is a hobby and it can only be a hobby. You cant build a career you cant earn a decent life, you cannot even make a living! Come and get a job you damn fool, we can use a 3D model artist!"

They are right, I'm wrong. Maybe now is the time to make things right.

This is not a victory, everybody is lose.

you went into that wanting to make money..

people made mods before money was even thought of for free..

Soon as money gets involved most all good mods go to pay to have and then full of junk crap mods aswell.

Leaving the free community with jack crap and they say it wont kill the free community ha! sooner or later people will get tired of the crap mods being made for free because the good modders are filling there pockets with green.

Money corrupted this community.. i just hope it can recover

and before i get flamed.. i do support mod authors getting donations and not forcing us to buy a it may work mod sorry but my opinion

[Nightasy]

In response to post #24731409. #24731549, #24731554, #24731689, #24732049, #24732184, #24732424, #24765784, #24779599, #24779689, #24781584, #24788094, #24797939, #24801484, #24802179, #24802394, #24804749, #24805954, #24808504, #24813219, #24838234, #24842449 are all replies on the same post.

Nightasy wrote: Well, I didn't see a problem with paid mod content. I saw it not one bit different from a site such as Turbosquid or Daz3d. Not one bit different from any site where you buy 3d models. It's a trade, it's also a hobby and it's also a way to make a living. What I did see though that has made me decide to back off from modding for awhile, possibly forever was something much more appalling. I saw a bunch of posts and mods spring up that suggested mod authors didn't work hard on mods.

Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard. Developing a mod, 3d model, scripting, setting up esp files is an exceptionally tedious task. There is an abundant amount of work that is required to make mods. There is an abundant amount of learning that is required to make mods, from learning to use the available tools right down to understanding what a UV map is. I found many posts and those aforementioned mods quite belittling to modders and I'm sorry to say but that is what disgusted me. Not the pay system but the lack of appreciation being shown.

There was an abundant amount of work that went into developing the Creation Kit as well as setting up Skyrim so that it could be modded. There was an abundant amount of work that went into setting up a pay system on steam, setting up a workshop to support it. So much work went into the entire setup of Skyrim as well as the Creation Kit as well as the workshop as well as the mods that are developed for the game and it was all so very much under appreciated.

The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. There would have always been free mods. Mod authors would have had an additional option to also release paid mods but because of the many (mostly non-mod authors) thinking mod authors don't work hard, that Bethesda didn't work hard, that Steam didn't work hard, now we don't have that option. Mod author's have given so much for free and have never asked for anything in return. The one time we had a bone thrown our way and due to a lack of appreciation it was taken from us.

I'm sorry, but I've decided to pull down all of my mods while I think on this experience. I'm not quite decided as to how I feel about all that has happened. I suppose I just need some time to think and until I've come to a conclusion I won't feel comfortable providing support for my mods.

Best Regards.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: So you think you should be paid because you had to learn stuff? You find your hobby tedious? Perhaps you should find a new hobby.

digitaltrucker wrote: A is your privelege. I respect it, even though I disagree. I wish you the best and look forward to your return.

Cheers, friend!

falcor23 wrote: Sad to see you go, but this was bound to happen. Modders are going to leave because of this and the amount of attention this has gotten will bring more modders in. This has been a clusterf*#@ at best and will leave this community shattered for along time coming.

Best of luck in your future endeavors.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think one of the major issues surrounding all this was the way it was implemented. How about a mature thought out inquiry and discussion between developers, modders, contributors and users/testers would have possibly avoided this whole sham.

It is because of how this was done that my respect for Beth and Valve has been damaged and it is only with time and future experiences that this may improve.

Let us not forget that Nexus supports all games now. There will always be new developers.

popopipo wrote: I think the titles "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" were aimed at Valve and Bethesda, not at modders in general.

But yes, you have people who don't understand at all what modding is about, who just behave like consumers in the worst way. They were very loud during the shitstorm. They are the same people who complain a lot on the comment section.

I do believe this paying mod thing was a very bad idea, but I do show respect to all the time modders spent working to improve the game.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: A better option would be that people who donate get the latest updates first. This would encourage donations as well as encourage innovation by the modders. Greed is the only true evil in this world.

Zennethe wrote: So basically, a patreon-based model.

Tyerial12 wrote: Problem is all the good mods would be Pay to Use them leaving the free community with junk (not saying all mod authors will) then some will uploadfree mods sure but leave a spam box saying like my Mod Buy the full verison (insert link here) now making it a spam mod.

So as im saying the Free community of mods would die out because no one wants crap quailty mods or mods that get uploaded then abandoned.

I do support mod authors with a DONATE BUTTON but force me to pay for a mod that i can not test for more than 24 hrs hell no

Sometimes it takes awhile to find out the mods broken right were it should shine.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Some mods can destroy and corrupt save games too, unintentionally. I remember Imaginator, didn't find that one out for months then BAM! Save bloat and no more save game for you!

EDIT: Its fixed now btw and is an awesome mod.

etholas wrote: "MrJoseCuervo 0 kudos 12 posts
So you think you should be paid because you had to learn stuff? You find your hobby tedious? Perhaps you should find a new hobby. "

What a wonderful way to thank those who have contributed so much time and effort for the sake of others.

treota wrote: I would caution you against dumping your hobby because of other people, there will always be haters and horrible people no matter what you do, no need to pander to their bile.

"The paid mods would not have had any negative impact on the free modding community. " -There is really no way to say this for certain without sitting back and observing, it may have or may not have.

Having personally read a large portion of the posts on steam and elsewhere I can say for certain that most people were in full or partial support of the modders or just plain on the fence, the minority were unfortunately stirring the pot as they do and being general disgraceful human beings.

Nightasy wrote: I'm going to end on this note which I worded to another well-known modder.

I've always modded in the past for myself. I made mods I wanted for me and then shared them for free on the Nexus out of pure charity. Yes, I made the mods for selfish reasons but giving them away for free was just me being nice. I’ve even gone a step further with such charity on multiple occasions by catering those mods I gave away to fit the desires of the community. I don’t even use some of the body types I’ve converted my mods to work with but someone asked me to do it and I did.

What do we get for being nice? Nothing because nothing was expected as it was entirely an act of charity. We asked for nothing and with the exception of a simple thank you here and there, we got nothing in return. Though for all that charity that we offered and all that free stuff we just gave away, it was not without consequence. We built up and unknowingly supported the mentality that mod developers don't deserve anything and that all mods should be free. This was of course not our intent but that's what we did by releasing our mods out of charity. We are partially to blame for creating this mentality.

Since paid modding was taken away, I have taken the time to really consider the events that have transpired over this event. While I had not received any money from paid mods, eventually I would have because my work would have sold, of that I am certain. My free mods would have remained free and I had planned to also release a mod for free ever so often simply out of charity for those who could not afford my paid mods. Also because doing so would help keep the quality of my work well known. Such an act would have been like a trend and I can be fairly certain other authors that offered paid content would have taken to such a practice.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the anti-paid mod community just took money out of my pocket. That is how I see it and that is exactly what they did. For all my charity, this was the thanks that we modders have received. We had an opportunity to earn money doing something that we love to do but because we were so charitable in the past… the opportunity was ripped from our grasp. Gee, thanks a lot guys and gals... real uncool.

My free mods would have always remained free and I would have continued to throw a few more free mods out there from time to time. Now none of my mods are available, not even my free ones. Such charity caused me to lose an opportunity that would have been a ‘dream come true.’

Now it’s not the last you’ve seen of ol’ Nightasy. I’ll still make tutorials and teach people how to make mods. I’ll still continue to answer mod related questions but I won’t be one to give mine away. Not anymore, not after this. You can call it whatever you want but I call it being made aware.

Anyone can have any opinion they want about me regarding my stance. I am officially done responding to hate. I am officially done giving away my mods. Until paid modding has returned I will no longer offer free mods. I encourage other mod authors to take the same stance. Until we show that we deserve our freedom to choose we won't be heard. They all had a choice not to buy our mods and we should have a choice to offer them for free or for sale regardless of our percentage of the cut. I will not roll over, I will defend my rights as an artist.

Tanesis12 wrote: I agree with every point you've mentioned. Mod authors do deserve recompense for the time and effort they invest into their projects. Particularly those who incur costs while producing their Mods.

However I remain neutral becuase from a consumers point of veiw playing a modded Skyrim, or any future Bethesda game, could become an increasingly expensive hobby.

The money you have lost is much smaller than the overall cost for the consumers once you have taken Valves/Beths cuts out. Beths cut in particular made no sense to me at all, especially as they claimed it would be helping mod authers.

F.e If I ran £50's worth of mods then £12.50 would see its way to 30 mod authors and £22.50 to Bethesda and the consumer would be £50 + cost of game down.

Ultimately I think it was an attempt to place a culture of microtransaction mods in place for Beth's next game. The ultimate victims were the Mod authors who faced a quantity of unreasonable, undeserved and, quite frankly, idiotic BS for aspiring to believe they could make money from their hobby.

Nightasy wrote: @Tanesis12 - That is looking at the small picture. The reality is that the Purity mod would have generated the mod author over 1000 USD in 5 days alone. You can call that "a quantity of BS" but I call that 1000 USD. I know I could've easily been pulling in a couple hundred bucks a month at the very least.

The issue isn't the % that the mod authors were getting. The issue is that we had that right stripped from us. We had an opportunity stolen away from us. The majority of people opposed to paid modding weren't even modders. This is like fighting slavery in that we had no choice before but to offer all our mods for free but once we were given an option to make money it then became a matter of having the right to sell mods. Now this is a matter of our legal rights being taken away from us. We were legally being allowed to sell mods and now it has been made illegal to do so once again.

Nobody fought the matter before because no one suspected that Bethesda would support it. Once Bethesda did show that they supported modders selling their work they opened that door. You can't close that door, you just can't. Just like when slavery was made illegal in the north, you couldn't close that door and now slavery is illegal across the country. People should have the right to get paid for their work. Bethesda supports the modders having a right to choose whether or not they want to offer mods for a payment. This is because Bethesda is comprised of artists and artists believe in other artists having the right to sell their work.

That is the bare bones of it. This is a fight for artists rights to decide whether or not they want to charge for their work. Art can be free and art can cost money, that's how it should be. That Bethesda and Valve backed off is a shame because they let the fight against artists rights win. They threw modders rights under the bus and didn't stand their ground. That's metaphorically what they did. But freedom of choice wasn't given away over night. It's a matter of fighting for it and I have chosen my side because I am an artist and I believe in artists having rights. We should have the right to chose whether or not we want to sell a mod that we worked hard on and nobody, I MEAN NOBODY, should be allowed to take that right away from us.

Modders now need to band together and take a stand. We need to fight to get our rights back. We need to march, we need to voice, we need to petition and we need to strike. We didn't fight as hard because we didn't think we had to, we assumed that Bethesda and Valve would stand their ground in support of artists rights. As such Bethesda didn't hear us and only heard the anti-paid mod population. We were wrong to think that Bethesda and Valve would stand their ground and now we need to take action. I am striking by pulling out all free content for good until our rights are given back to us.

ChizFoShiz wrote: Stop trying to justify yourselves and your beliefs with this "we did it for you guys, that cut wasn't right" nonsense.

If that were the issue then it would have been at the forefront of every post, comment and spoken word, but it wasn't.

Whether that cut was fair or not was a decision to be made by the seller, nothing more and nothing less. Now that 25% is 0%, way to go, what a great renegotiation.

The system needed tweaking and policy changes, not an angry mob tearing it to the ground.

If somebody was giving away prints for free and you started seeing their other work in stores would you burn the place down and form a mob to crucify the author? Because that's exactly what happened here.

Frosticus14 wrote: You can still sell your mods, that right wasnt taken away. Put them up on your own website and charge for them. What was taken away was an easy to use marketplace. You are still welcome to see your art through other avenues just like any artist would.


I'm not opposed to payed mods, the price just has to be realistic in respect to the game. If the whole game is $50 then most mods should be around $0.25 up to maybe $5 for a massive overhaul with the vast vast vast manority being under $1. Imo

Stormaxel wrote: Point of these situations is that no one likes to be told what to do. I personally think both sides of the modding community are being down right selfish. For all of the mod authors out there who believe that endorsements are false. Your right to an extent, but there are others who wholeheartedly love what you do for them. In reality without both sides of the modding community mods would not and could not exist, Why? well its simple if you make a mod and say you hand it out for free, but there are a mass of script bugs in your mod that you didn't know about, well without the AND I QUOTE "Complaining little brats" you may have not seen those errors leading to your mod being forgotten. IF YOU WANT TO QUIT UNTIL SOME CAN PAY GO AHEAD, BUT I TELL YOU THIS, WATCH HOW FAR YOU WILL MAKE IT WITHOUT HELP FROM OTHER MODDERS OR THE COMMUNITY. WE ARE ALL A MASSIVE FAMILY HERE.

Tanesis12 wrote: Nightasy Sorry you miscontrued my meaning. I was refering by "a quantity of unreasonable, undeserved and, quite frankly, idiotic BS" as to mod consumers towards Mod authors. I was referring to some of the threats made to mod authors for wanting to monetise and I was defending mod authors in general.

I DO NOT REFUTE THE RIGHT FOR MODDERS TO MONETISE. I do however refute the method Beth chose.

The oppertunity for outright theft of mods, little protection for the buyers of modded content, Valves nonexistent moderation, no actual professional tech support etc all suggest a bullshit implimentation that it looked like Beth wanted to take the $$$$ while shouldering none of the responsibilities. I would also suspect that there were would be potential legal difficulties.

If Beth truelly wanted to allow mod authors the oppertunity to monetise for the good of the larger community then they would have engaged with journalists, they would have had roundtables with experienced parties and generally communicated more. I doubt they should have shrouded everything in NDAs.

Again I do not refute the right of modders to monetise. I think that the right of modders needs to be explored. More thoroughly though and not in a situation which feels like a cash grab by the developer but within a way that makes the consumer to feel valued and supported.

I apologise if I came across in an agressive way or you feel that I am against mod authors in general I am not.

WizardlyWerks wrote: I do believe the intent of "Give me money for no reason" and "Pay me to do nothing" was aimed at Valves 25%-75% policy not the developers of mods, a good majority of the people here who don't mod and don't put the countless hours into making mods are more than happy to support mod authors. We aren't interested in seeing mod authors removing content or to end they're modding career because of this incident. Hope you decide to come back.

samueladams17 wrote: This is in response to "Titles such as "Give me Money for No Reason" and "Pay me for doing nothing" really caught me off guard." I just want to point out that as far as I know those two mods were targeted at Valve, not the modders. We do realize that y'all put in quite a bit of effort into mods and do not want y'all to think that everyone thinks y'all don't work hard on your mods. Just wanted to point that out.

Tyerial12 wrote: as i agree with you but selling mods is not worth peoples time as for examples:

What if a mod author sold a mod that didnt work with other mods.. oh yeah 24hr refund waiitt. took a week to see it was broken! now im screwed

or Mod author makes a mod then later down the road stops working on it or charges for each update.. people were selling mods worth more than the game itself.

Not to mention it would of left the free commnity with crap mods or just mods we didnt need. Not everyone is rich and can afford all the mods in our load order

Now i do agree giving money to mod authors with a donate button is awesome but forcing us to pay for :it may work: mods its not a wise idea. some people like to try things out for 30days and if they dont like or is broke they can get there refund not 24hrs

...deleted this comment cause I was really drunk when I made it, lol.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Nightasy

[Mur_Zik]

It's beyond my English to read ALL above, so excuse me if duplicating one's idea.

If TES modding is your hobby and you don't wish someone is making money(or reputation) on it, just don't share. Works good for me)

Edited May 1, 2015 by Mur_Zik

[lesliewifeofbath]

In response to post #24736679. #24737664, #24747479, #24750714, #24755589, #24757064, #24772654, #24776964, #24818569, #24842684 are all replies on the same post.

UberSmaug wrote: So there is this thing called a "Craft Fair". Craziest thing. It this place where hobbyest go to sell their little do-dads, and funny little needle point kitty cat tissue box covers, And woodcrafts, and WORKS OF FRIGGIN ART!!!!!!!! They don't steal from each other's tables when the other person is not looking... Well some probably do but that's because some people are jerks, And want to take things because they somehow justify to themselves that they are entitled everything they see simply because.... they want it. Yeah some people are going to try to abuse the system. Just like somebody will try to abuse every system. Is that really a reason not to give this a try? It will not be perfect right away. And probably will never be "perfect". Nothing is. We will just have to respect each other and be honest in our actions. Those who betray that trust will be outed if we watch each others backs.

Why is modding any different from Wood Working Jewelry Making, Painting, Sculpture, Drawing, Music, Knitting, and countless other, hobbies for some, but for others they are more. For those willing to put in the hard work and dedication, make things of a professional quality, it can become a job. Maybe not your primary source of income but a nice secondary bump. Who cares if its not going to make you rich. You had fun while you were doing it right. This is not about being greedy.

All these posts about evil gaming companies trying to scam people and rip you off is the highest form of disrespect. If you cant understand that it makes me sad. If not for Bethesda and Valve and Nexus and all the others there would be no mods, let alone a game to play at all. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. If you think for one second the developers at these companies don't love games as much as you do than we are lost. That kind of thinking, not the money, will eat away at this community and the entire gaming industry.

Pro Paid mods. Is not Anti Free mods. Free mods should not go away. There are plenty of mods that just wont be able to jive with the paid model and they should not be eliminated. New modders need a place to get their feet wet. We need a place to get feedback on works in progress. If your mod doesn't make it to the market place you should have to option to releases for free. Trying to ban free modding would be a huge mistake. And IF that happens I guaranty you will see a modder strike

Why shouldn't we be able to sell our Art like any other Artist? People at these craft fairs all have a really good time and are supper nice to each other. They share ideas, help each other out, collaborate on projects. Teach each other techniques. Form lifelong friendships. FALL IN LOVE. Because they share a common interest. That is a Community. And the best kind of community where race, sexual orientation, religion, and nationality don't matter anymore. Because for once were not concentrating on what makes us different but what make us the same.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: If your work is worthy people will donate. If that's not good enough for you take up needle point.

Crashloop wrote: @MrJoseCuervo
In theory you are spot on, however theory doesn't match reality.. If I put up a ad saying I will take pictures for you, you donate money if you like my work and want to donate. How many would you think actually donated? As a hobby photographer I cannot and will not work for free unless it's benefits me. Majority of people want stuff for free it's that simple.

bungdorji wrote: I definetely agree, if your work has a best result, people will donate willingly, but if not im sure they wont

dpgillam wrote: A) craft fair people are selling a finished, stable, working product. Not a beta, not a "maybe" not a "well it works on MY computer" line of Bull. You want me to pay you for something that has a significant chance of not working. In the US (and most the civilized world) its illegal to sell defective goods knowingly, and anything based on skyrim's bugged up system is defective, by default.

B) Im paying you? Then I expect to get what I pay for. The mod had better look EXACTLY like the pictures (false advertising is a crime) I have the right to tech support (Federal lemon laws) For as long as the game is maintained you must keep your mod up to date. And, as poor Chesko found out, you have no control over your mod. Its not "ebul compnies" as you suggest, its simple business, and the fact that the average person is clueless enough to think the world works like they see on tv. :roll:

C) Craft fair people dont steal each other's "IP"? Ever notice how much nearly-identical garbage is strewn across the tables? We have thousands of magazines per hobby telling you how to make the junk that the flea marketers are selling. For there to be a fair comparison to modding, you would have to publish a magazine monthly with all the code for the best mods as freeware, deny the concept of IP ever existing, and THEN try to sell your art. You have a fantasy notion of craft fairs. a few people are as warm and fuzzy as your delusion. Most are just noral. And then there are the financially motivated. In all, you'll find the same attitudes and temperments as you find here.

UberSmaug wrote: I agree. IF you pay for something it should be of good quality. If you are selling something you should stand by it and provide support for your customers. False advertising is a crime, lemon laws and all that are good. I still support all of my free mods and will continue to do so. I've never said otherwise.

I was only trying to bring light to the fact that being a hobbyist should not exclude you from seeking profit for the things you produce. Its done everyday all across the world. If all mods are as broken as you imply why would you want them even if they are free. If skyrim is so bugged that all mods are junk why are you playing it at all.

Your last comment proves my point even more. Even with money involved people are still willing to share ideas, assist their fellow hobbyist, share assetss, make tutorials, look at each others work and say "awe man that's good but I bet I can improve on that." Some people sell kits for others to assemble and in turn sell again. Those financially motivated are sitting right next to those who are not. Yet the system still functions. Its not a fantasy, I may be hamming up the love and good will stuff a bit. That much warm and fuzzy makes me a little sick. But I'll settle for just moral.

I Ask again. How is modding any different? Why is ok for these people to sell their wares and we can not?

x9fallen wrote: I don't believe there is a corporation running the craft fairs and taking 75%. As someone who has donated getting close to $1k to various modders/content makers, that was my biggest complaint about the system.

Do I want to financially support modders when I can? Damn right. Do I want to give 75% of that money to Valve and Bethesda? Hell no.

UberSmaug wrote: Absolutely there is an organizer. And there is a vendor fee which is divided between that organizer and the venue where the event is held, be it a Church parking lot or a convention center. The amount of that fee varies greatly. In this case it is a flat fee, for mods it would be a percentage of total sales My question is not is the split fair or not. (Please read the Forbs piece and Bethesda blog concerning that if you have not already. Those numbers were not set in stone.)

After reading the Forbs and Bethesda blog I feel the absolute best split we could hope to see would be 30% valve standard digital distribution fee, 35% Bethesda 35% to the Modder. More realistically 40% Bethesda 30% Modder. Maybe service provider 5% is volunteered from the modders share. Mod authors would always be getting less than half but still more than a studio developer (counting in heath care and yada, yada, yada, evens that out a bit). and I am personally ok with that. To those who say they would pay for mods but this first offer is unfair. Would a 5%-10% increase to the modders + modders donate to service providers be enough to change your mind?

singlebelong wrote: @MrJoseCuervo
This "If your work is worthy people will donate" thought is really hurts, like after all the hard work I made a bunch of worthless junky mods.

========================

I'm so disappointed about this fiasco, maybe this is why my friends told me "modding is fool around. It is a hobby and it can only be a hobby. You cant build a career you cant earn a decent life, you cannot even make a living! Come and get a job you damn fool, we can use a 3D model artist!"

They are right, I'm wrong. Maybe now is the time to make things right.

This is not a victory, everybody is lose.

Tyerial12 wrote: you went into that wanting to make money..

people made mods before money was even thought of for free..

Soon as money gets involved most all good mods go to pay to have and then full of junk crap mods aswell.

Leaving the free community with jack crap and they say it wont kill the free community ha! sooner or later people will get tired of the crap mods being made for free because the good modders are filling there pockets with green.

Money corrupted this community.. i just hope it can recover

and before i get flamed.. i do support mod authors getting donations and not forcing us to buy a it may work mod sorry but my opinion

I totally agree with you. This site kicked off a pretty terrific mod some time ago for some pretty stupid reasons, even after the developer tried to make things right.

Methinks Dark One protests too much.