Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[popcorn71]

In response to post #24651664. #24652349, #24652889, #24652914, #24653169 are all replies on the same post.

popcorn71 wrote:

hellosanta wrote: I think, Valve's decision on not to take down Chesko's files all together is actually right move. There are people who actually paid for Chesko's mods, that's why they are keeping the file available for those who paid while making it inaccessible to those who haven't paid. It's the same for any other games sold in Steam. Even if the game was deleted from Steam store, the game is still available in customer's library. They are just keeping contents for those who paid for them. It's for the sake of customers. They could, very well, choose to refund and delete the files completely. And that's what they are going to do if they are "legally compelled".

marthgun wrote: Good faith??? Are you kidding me? Chesko SIGNED OVER HIS MODS TO VALVE AND BETHESDA

He has no one to blame. I have been beating the drum against this very thing since i heard about paid modding. Now that beth has your mod, and they make money off of it, they may see it beneficial to issue DMCA to the free versions or copy cats.

Everyone wants to talk about money this and money that. If Steam had a more fair payout, i wouldn't really care. It's going to cause massive problems, it already has, but the issues of liability, i.e. who's responsible when the mod you paid for breaks your game, and copywrite should be the biggest concerns about all of this. The only thing i am moderately upset about is the Robin accepting this as is, and yet there isn't a good reason to deny free cash. This whole thing is mind numbing.

popcorn71 wrote: Once you download a file from the workshop and its in your data folder it wouldn't mater what steam did with the mod. Just because steam deletes a file from their data base doesn't mean that the file is magically deleted of the computers of people who bought the mod. They most certainly could remove the file without any ill effects on people who bought it, but are choosing not to. Why? Because the have not been "compelled to" and they know that Chesko is probably not in a positions to "compel" them to remove it.

When you upload a file to steam your essentially forfeit any control you had over it. Hell, they even tell you that in the licensee agreement. And the platform people want to well their mods? Not smart at all.

marthgun wrote: yeah its insane to hand over your mods to steam / beth. I don't think they are even obligated to pay you for them If they wanted to repackage / bundle your mods in a "best of" series, i don't see why they would even need to pay you.

But everyone wants to talk about how great it is that modders will be able to make money. I wonder if that will hold up when 20,000 mods are behind a pay wall. If they took the top 100 mods here and sold them, that is more palatable. But they would still be giving away their mods to steam / beth.

I really hope people make a bunch of money off of their mods and prove me wrong. I hope it makes people millions. I don't see how it will, but it's doubtful this is going away anytime soon; way too much money in it for steam / beth.

@ marthgun
Im not defending Chesko. What He did was really REALLY stupid. I'm trying to make a point to other people who seem to think its a good idea to sell mods in this particular way. Edited April 25, 2015 by popcorn71

[WhiskyTime]

In response to post #24652689. #24652809 is also a reply to the same post.

modskyrimtopieces wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: Seriously? Ad revenues make money for Nexus as do donations and memberships and.....oh why bother your just another damn Conspiracy Theorist with his mind made-up. Go somewhere else then and good luck.

You forgot to differ the members that are acutally part of the community, and members like me, who write their 2nd post ever on Nexus although registered since 2008. I guess people like me just don´t give a ... .

Whatever the Nexus people do with the money they earn - in my oppinion, the site´s running good and after all, we can be happy that there´s things like this community. Getting mods for a game was not that comfortable some time ago.

Anyway, what i wanted to say is - i don´t need "to-the-point" answers and there´s surely a good amount of people who think the same - as long as everything´s running well there´s no problem.
For the record - the only thing i was asked for is to turn off my Adblocker - nobody told me this site would not run without a £1.29 "donation".

[Apocalipse666]

Just a quick update: at this time there are 17 mods left for sale at the workshop.

 

Also, does anyone know/read CK rules and docs fineprint on ownership of mods??

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24650744. #24651589, #24652849 are all replies on the same post.

MCato wrote:

hellosanta wrote: At first, maybe.
Have you ever heard of overjustification effect? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up as well as psychology studies that are done on the topic. Of course there are exceptions (as always, to any other psychological phenomena), but I have experienced it personally. I loved drawing and it was really good hobby of mine for so long. But once i started commission thinking that I could make some pocket money while doing something I loved, I lost interest in drawing soon after. It was stressful to deal with all requests and complaints because as they are now paying customers, they have every rights to do so. And then I started to think whether I was paid enough for the time and effort I put in each commission or not. In short, something that I've done for the love of doing it, turned out to be a tedious and stressful job when monetary incentive was involved.
When mod becomes a fan-made DLC that requires payment up-front, people will complain and complain because now they are entitled to the quality of mods and constant supports. If you think you can deal with them, go ahead.

twhelan wrote: I personally would not be able to tolerate the crap you guys and gals have to deal with from the entitled, whilst offering your work for free... let alone trying to please them if they were actually a customer.

Honestly MCato, right now I don't know WHO to trust.

All I know is I'm not happy. And I'm not alone.

[marthgun]

In response to post #24651664. #24652349, #24652889, #24652914, #24653009 are all replies on the same post.

popcorn71 wrote:

hellosanta wrote: I think, Valve's decision on not to take down Chesko's files all together is actually right move. There are people who actually paid for Chesko's mods, that's why they are keeping the file available for those who paid while making it inaccessible to those who haven't paid. It's the same for any other games sold in Steam. Even if the game was deleted from Steam store, the game is still available in customer's library. They are just keeping contents for those who paid for them. It's for the sake of customers. They could, very well, choose to refund and delete the files completely. And that's what they are going to do if they are "legally compelled".

marthgun wrote: Good faith??? Are you kidding me? Chesko SIGNED OVER HIS MODS TO VALVE AND BETHESDA

He has no one to blame. I have been beating the drum against this very thing since i heard about paid modding. Now that beth has your mod, and they make money off of it, they may see it beneficial to issue DMCA to the free versions or copy cats.

Everyone wants to talk about money this and money that. If Steam had a more fair payout, i wouldn't really care. It's going to cause massive problems, it already has, but the issues of liability, i.e. who's responsible when the mod you paid for breaks your game, and copywrite should be the biggest concerns about all of this. The only thing i am moderately upset about is the Robin accepting this as is, and yet there isn't a good reason to deny free cash. This whole thing is mind numbing.

popcorn71 wrote: Once you download a file from the workshop and its in your data folder it wouldn't mater what steam did with the mod. Just because steam deletes a file from their data base doesn't mean that the file is magically deleted of the computers of people who bought the mod. They most certainly could remove the file without any ill effects on people who bought it, but are choosing not to. Why? Because the have not been "compelled to" and they know that Chesko is probably not in a positions to "compel" them to remove it.

When you upload a file to steam your essentially forfeit any control you had over it. Hell, they even tell you that in the licensee agreement. And the platform people want to well their mods? Not smart at all.

popcorn71 wrote: @ marthgun
Im not defending Chesko. What He did was really REALLY stupid. I'm trying to make a point to other people who seem to think its a good idea to sell mod in this particular way.

yeah its insane to hand over your mods to steam / beth. I don't think they are even obligated to pay you for them If they wanted to repackage / bundle your mods in a "best of" series, i don't see why they would even need to pay you.

But everyone wants to talk about how great it is that modders will be able to make money. I wonder if that will hold up when 20,000 mods are behind a pay wall. If they took the top 100 mods here and sold them, that is more palatable. But they would still be giving away their mods to steam / beth.

I really hope people make a bunch of money off of their mods and prove me wrong. I hope it makes people millions. I don't see how it will, but it's doubtful this is going away anytime soon; way too much money in it for steam / beth.

[hellosanta]

In response to post #24651664. #24652349, #24652889, #24652914, #24653009, #24653169 are all replies on the same post.

popcorn71 wrote:

hellosanta wrote: I think, Valve's decision on not to take down Chesko's files all together is actually right move. There are people who actually paid for Chesko's mods, that's why they are keeping the file available for those who paid while making it inaccessible to those who haven't paid. It's the same for any other games sold in Steam. Even if the game was deleted from Steam store, the game is still available in customer's library. They are just keeping contents for those who paid for them. It's for the sake of customers. They could, very well, choose to refund and delete the files completely. And that's what they are going to do if they are "legally compelled".

marthgun wrote: Good faith??? Are you kidding me? Chesko SIGNED OVER HIS MODS TO VALVE AND BETHESDA

He has no one to blame. I have been beating the drum against this very thing since i heard about paid modding. Now that beth has your mod, and they make money off of it, they may see it beneficial to issue DMCA to the free versions or copy cats.

Everyone wants to talk about money this and money that. If Steam had a more fair payout, i wouldn't really care. It's going to cause massive problems, it already has, but the issues of liability, i.e. who's responsible when the mod you paid for breaks your game, and copywrite should be the biggest concerns about all of this. The only thing i am moderately upset about is the Robin accepting this as is, and yet there isn't a good reason to deny free cash. This whole thing is mind numbing.

popcorn71 wrote: Once you download a file from the workshop and its in your data folder it wouldn't mater what steam did with the mod. Just because steam deletes a file from their data base doesn't mean that the file is magically deleted of the computers of people who bought the mod. They most certainly could remove the file without any ill effects on people who bought it, but are choosing not to. Why? Because the have not been "compelled to" and they know that Chesko is probably not in a positions to "compel" them to remove it.

When you upload a file to steam your essentially forfeit any control you had over it. Hell, they even tell you that in the licensee agreement. And the platform people want to well their mods? Not smart at all.

popcorn71 wrote: @ marthgun
Im not defending Chesko. What He did was really REALLY stupid. I'm trying to make a point to other people who seem to think its a good idea to sell mods in this particular way.

marthgun wrote: yeah its insane to hand over your mods to steam / beth. I don't think they are even obligated to pay you for them If they wanted to repackage / bundle your mods in a "best of" series, i don't see why they would even need to pay you.

But everyone wants to talk about how great it is that modders will be able to make money. I wonder if that will hold up when 20,000 mods are behind a pay wall. If they took the top 100 mods here and sold them, that is more palatable. But they would still be giving away their mods to steam / beth.

I really hope people make a bunch of money off of their mods and prove me wrong. I hope it makes people millions. I don't see how it will, but it's doubtful this is going away anytime soon; way too much money in it for steam / beth.

I do think it's more like customer service. What if someone deleted Skyrim and re-install it? Now the file they have purchased is gone. Same goes for the game. Since you don't have physical copy and there is only digital copy available from the server of platform you purchased the item, it's just that Steam can't delete the file from their server readily. If they do, they will have to deal with massive amount of angry customers. Ideal is just to refund what customers have purchased. But even then, that's not very ideal in terms of Skyrim mods because absence of scripted mods break the save file almost all times. There are just many other things to be considered. And, on side note, Steam's refund policy is just plain stupid.

[shingouki2002]

Dark0ne as a person who has been modding since the days that devakm was still actively modding FCOM, I will say that I am 200% behind your decisions, rationale, and cool head in this matter. Take that 5% and use it to support your efforts and don't feel any sort of remorse for it.

 

One thing that a lot of mod users dont take into consideration is that modding costs a lot for everyone involved. Dark0ne has to spend his money to keep mods free. Hosting isnt free, servers arent free, and when it breaks he has to fix it. When people ask him why so and so isnt working, he has to spend money, time, effort to fix it. None of that is free! So if Valve is giving him a piece of their pie to support his hard work...I don't think any of you have the right to judge him for it.

 

As for the modder side, modders have to spend their time(which could be turned into money by doing a job, or being with family, networking) and money (sometimes they actually spend out of pocket for the tools/resources/classes used to make mods) to bring the things we do to the community.

 

We do this out of love. We do it out of a drive to create and to share the things we create.

 

But if you really look at it, many people EXCEPT for modders, benefit monetarily from our creations. To paraphrase what Chesko said:

a) Bethesda benefits from modding because we extend the life of their games, we fix their issues and create DLC that is free extending the game infinitely until we decide to stop supporting the game. People probably still buy copies of Morrowind because modding exists. So that's one person.

b) Valve benefits from Bethesda's sales in part a through their agreements.

c) Mod reviewers can monetize their videos and review mods and make money off of the mod makers.

d) Nexus makes money from advertisements on our mod pages, but it's not something I really would be complaining about as Dark0ne is doing a crapton to keep these pages around and free. Whatever he gets, I wouldn't care to be honest. Even if he was making millions off it, I would be happy for him because he doesn't have to do what he does, but he keeps doing it.

 

As for the mod authors, well... what we usually get is good words and appreciation...and that's totally fine! I love that part about it! There's nothing that warms my heart and motivates me more than having someone say thank you for something I created, and expressing their gratitude.

 

But the truth of it all is, that we as mod makers don't really get money from what we create all that often. I've been modding since 2008 and I got my first donation two months ago. (A donation which I'm extremely happy and extremely appreciative for! Thank you so much to the person who donated to me!) But, I have put in thousands of hours into modding and have also come out of pocket to pay for a handful of tools to support my craft.

 

Now, I'm not saying that anyone should be 'paying modders' to do their hobby, but from my perspective if SO many people are profiting from a modder's work except for the modder, then if that same person can get a little something for their efforts, they shouldn't be crucified for taking that opportunity. I can understand people bashing Valve/Bethesda as they get 75% of the modder's cut. That's fine and a legitimate reason to be angry. But I think attacking MOD AUTHORS for taking a risk in participating in this is so freaking wrong.

 

As a long standing member of this community I also am afraid of what issues money brings to the table. I still like the idea of keeping mods free, and I more am worried about people becoming more restrictive in terms of what they share. I'm not too worried about people hiding their mods, but the biggest issue in my opinion is in people restricting knowledge. When people start saying things like "I don't want to tell anyone about how I did so and so mod because someone might make money off it" is more of a problem imo.

 

As a whole though, I really think the best route for monetizing is what Dark0ne is doing: Where donations are the main method used monetarily support the modder. Where generous people can give their support how they wish, without anyone feeling too pressured (the customer nor the content creator).

 

I don't like the paywall thing that Valve is going for, but on the same token I think it is fine if a modder is a part of it and I don't think they should be harassed for trying to be part of that opportunity.

 

[MCato]

In response to post #24650744. #24651589, #24652849, #24653149 are all replies on the same post.

MCato wrote:

hellosanta wrote: At first, maybe.
Have you ever heard of overjustification effect? If you haven't, I suggest you look it up as well as psychology studies that are done on the topic. Of course there are exceptions (as always, to any other psychological phenomena), but I have experienced it personally. I loved drawing and it was really good hobby of mine for so long. But once i started commission thinking that I could make some pocket money while doing something I loved, I lost interest in drawing soon after. It was stressful to deal with all requests and complaints because as they are now paying customers, they have every rights to do so. And then I started to think whether I was paid enough for the time and effort I put in each commission or not. In short, something that I've done for the love of doing it, turned out to be a tedious and stressful job when monetary incentive was involved.
When mod becomes a fan-made DLC that requires payment up-front, people will complain and complain because now they are entitled to the quality of mods and constant supports. If you think you can deal with them, go ahead.

twhelan wrote: I personally would not be able to tolerate the crap you guys and gals have to deal with from the entitled, whilst offering your work for free... let alone trying to please them if they were actually a customer.

phantompally76 wrote: Honestly MCato, right now I don't know WHO to trust.

All I know is I'm not happy. And I'm not alone.

Believe me, ex-gratia payments don't impose on a modder that much responsibility. This only gives more inspiration. In particular, to actively support and develope a mod.
If you have a complaint, this means there is interest in the mod. And this make it possible to improve the mod.
(I hope you understand my bad english)

[corbaer]

Gabe Newell (Steam Himself :p) on reddit doing a informal AMA right now:

 

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24646984. #24647104, #24647439, #24647524, #24647569, #24647954, #24648029, #24648264, #24648309, #24648414, #24648504, #24648519, #24648809, #24649619, #24650179, #24650239, #24650354, #24651039, #24651229, #24651294, #24651314, #24651324, #24651364, #24651429, #24651469, #24651679, #24651784, #24651844, #24651864, #24651949, #24652074, #24652084, #24652114, #24652274, #24652374, #24652484, #24652614, #24652634, #24652709, #24652984, #24652989 are all replies on the same post.

Psijonica wrote:

SchwererGustav wrote: This post wwll be deleted in...3...2...1...

You will see ;)

bigdeano89 wrote: Way to sound like an entitled 12 year old man. Dark0ne has been honest from the start. Good luck trying to find another site btw, all the others are either gone or ALSO took the service provider option. That includes AFKmods etc.

Dark0ne is not the only site to do that, so stop making them out to be the bad guys. Nexus has been around for years giving mod authors FREE space for mods big and small.

Dark0ne wrote:

As you paint yourself as the saviour of the free modding community

This post wwll be deleted in...3...2...1...

Why would I delete it? It's a perfect example of the people who don't actually read what I write and, in the process, make themselves look stupid.

SchwererGustav wrote: Because 2 of my comments got delleted befor...

The 1st was a bit aggressive the 2nd not at all.

rotwhip wrote: ooooh someone is angry.

Psijonica wrote: I read what you wrote and I can only giggle that you have lowered yourself to calling me "stupid" LoL

You can fool all the kids here but anyone with real business and life experience sees right through you.

If I am stupid because I don't take your words at face value then so be it... I am a stupid person who drives a Super Snake and I am laughing at how stupid you may think I am.

Basically you are still supporting Pay-for-Mods just that you are calling it by a different name. Many modders like Emma (I guess you think she is stup[id too now eh? Remember her, yoiur old friend who helped you with your uploaded system all thiose years ago?) also believe that this is wrong in every aspect... but I guess we are just stupid.

I can't really tell youwhat I think of you because hey, I'm in an unfair possition where you are able to swing insults but I can't.

Congratulations! *Applause*

benissugger wrote: he said you "make yourself[es] look stupid", not "you are stupid".

JoeyLock wrote: So basically Psijonica, you're saying "Stop asking me for money! Dark0ne just pay the $500,000 to run this community per year and deal with it!" yes? Think about that statement, Endorsements, Permissions and Donations are the very things that keep this community and these mods afloat, if you want 100% free mods, make them all yourself and pay for the site to upload them on.

twhelan wrote: We must excuse those who cannot understand the context of a single sentence.

WightMage wrote: What does Emma, creator of Vilja, have anything to do with this?

Dark0ne wrote: You started with, in response to my article:

As you paint yourself as the saviour of the free modding community

I've already written:

If people are heralding me, specifically, as their champion in the fight against paid modding then they've done that of their own accord, and I certainly haven't agreed to be that champion....Does this sound like a champion of modding being free everywhere? No, it does not. Do not use me as the poster-child for that campaign as I never said I was.

So you either didn't read it, or you read it, and then decided to say I was painting myself as the "saviour of the free modding community" when I've specifically said I neither am or want to have that title. So yes, you look stupid. Even more so, now.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

Am I going to close all my account? No, not yet. But as soon as there is an alternative choice you can bet I will choose it.

I'm sure that threatening to close your FREE Nexus account that you pay NOTHING for, has most of the people at The Nexus quaking in their boots.

seversky wrote: Psijonica, you are an incredibly spoiled little child. Go away please. Don't come back.

phantompally76 wrote: I don't think Psijonica "looks stupid" at all, Dark0ne.

Quite the opposite, actually.

And I also think that YOU are coming out of this looking dishonest, petty, unapologetic, and at the risk of upsetting you (which is not my intention), just a little sociopathic.

You can't shrug or laugh this off. This is a MUCH bigger deal than you're trying to make it out to be, and just because you refuse to admit there is a problem with your lack of disclosure and transparancy....that doesn't make the problem go away.

And like it or not, a LOT of people have a problem with this.

Reaper0021 wrote: There is no "Bigger Deal". All of it was blatantly obvious, in the open and known by those of us that bothered to read it. These attacks are starting to get pretty damn pathetic. There was/is no conspiracy nor big deals made that have betrayed anyone.

TKHBMVP wrote: From my community experiences in the early 90ies until now on several forums and when usnet newsgroups support forums started remembering from the past, nothing has changed so far with the participants and their communication habbits ;-) It is still the same.
But when I read across all of this thread I'm happy that a lot of people making up their mind on this topic and thinking about the different point of views of the involved people.
Finally this proved that Nexus has a great audience and value modders and members sharing a most valuable content.

Psijonica wrote: YaY! You called me stupid twice! HAHAHA ;D The fact that you keep commenting says more than you know. it says that you feel you need to bully me in order to distract people from the real issue whisch is that you are in one hand holding up a protest sign while with the other taking payments from the people you are saying you are protesting against.

I have to laugh at you.But I guess I'm just stupid or maybe that the throngs of people who once used to get mods for free are now much smarter than me now that they will be paying for them eh?

*SIGH* Look at his last words, "That is what I will fight. That is what I will champion against." and tell me that he is not proclaiming himself as the white knight LoL

and to those of you who say he is not making money, please who are you fooling... he is raking it in and he is only here instead of on vacation trying to protect his money.

joeriz9 wrote: Keep it up kiddo, Good way to get yourself banned by not reading anything that has actually been said.

Reaper0021 wrote: Why are you even posting Psijonica? I mean what's the point you're trying to make beyond just annoying the staff? He was transparent about this whole thing to begin with. There is no hidden agenda. It was publicly posted and I read it before it was brought up by a member who found it the same way I did: Just looked and it was there. It wasn't 'hidden' and wasn't an attempt to be deceptive.

locomotive1236 wrote: "YaY! You called me stupid twice! HAHAHA The fact that you keep commenting says more than you know. it says that you feel you need to bully me in order to distract people from the real issue whisch is that you are in one hand holding up a protest sign while with the other taking payments from the people you are saying you are protesting against.

I have to laugh at you.But I guess I'm just stupid or maybe that the throngs of people who once used to get mods for free are now much smarter than me now that they will be paying for them eh?"

If you consider that bullying, I'm not sure what world you live in. As I understand it from his posts, he's staying neutral at the moment because he understands both sides. I also do not see any point of arguing with someone who is incapable of see things from only one perspective and have such a fragile self-esteem.

MCato wrote: "As you paint yourself as the saviour of the free modding community you are not fooling me"
===
Please show me any of your mods, even the smallest. Then I'll take your words seriously

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica
YaY! You called me stupid twice!

Actually, no he didn't, what you HAVE done though, is shown that twice now, you lack any reading comprehension skills whatsoever, which also explains why you have the whole Valve/Nexus thing so wrong.

Because you read and then interpret everything the way you WANT it to be, rather than the way it actually IS, facts be damned.

SchwererGustav wrote: It's a joke really , anybody with a brain can see were this is going and it is definitely not going to be good for modders who do it for the love of modding and not for the shekkels.

The corps and shareholders will love this news, alot of people (with alot of money) will make a quick buck and leave the modding community in the dirt.

But who are we to judge we don't have a shitload of servers that the community payd for...

Reaper0021 wrote: Had is right. Your a stone-headed kid that's got a conspiracy theory to play with and I'll be damned if your immature ass isn't going to play with it. You just refuse to read and comprehend what's written or you see ulterior motives abounding in everything people say and do.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I hope I don't regret bringing this point up. We are entitled to opinions are we not? And we are allowed to doubt what people say at face value, are we not? That is part of a community and it does not help to throw insults at one another, even if it's understandable as we all have a lot of passion about modding.

gingersnapples wrote: you sir are a clever troll, or wear lead-lined hats on a daily basis. can't decide which.

oh well. time ever flows onward, and this, too, shall pass.

ZeroKing wrote: Yeah! Community effort, guys! We get stuff for free, we'll give no support for the effort here, and we demand retribution for what the site owner believes in because he has to pay for the servers..... oh wait.

I forgot about the $500,000 annual server cost that most of us contribute next to nothing for. Yeah, reality sucks, eh?

Reaper0021 wrote: Yes your opinions are indeed welcome. This person isn't stating an "Opinion" this person has taken facts, mixed them up into his/her own little theory, and is attacking Dark0ne. Best if you don't get involved in it as you too seem to not know whats going on either. ****I'm giving you Kudos Zero cause I haven't seen you in so long.

Psijonica wrote: No reaper he has not been honest at all. When explain your self and leave out certain elements then that is being dishonest.

Let's face it, the reason he is saying is is neutral is because he is afraid to actually state his position. Wishy washy... and because I have an opposite opinion of how he has handled this now everybody trolls me. LoL Like I care. I own my house (paid for) and have a wife who loves me and 3 children that I feed and clothe and I am here with my eldest fighting for what I believe is right.

I believer he has lied, I believe he is not being honest and I don't trust his so called good intentions.

I can not believe for the life of me what is happening and you know what, if this goes through then this whole generation deserves SOPA and all the other corporations to come in take over the internet.

Of course I say that with tongue in cheek but I have been fighting the machine my whole life and I am getting tired... this really makes me not want to care any more and just let the children work it out themselves.

Pay-for-mods is the absolute worst thing that can happen and it is pretty much a done deal.

If Dark0ne want to be the Champion then let him refund all the money he gets from valve directly to the moddders. Lets see if he does that eh?

ZeroKing wrote: PhD in biomedical engineering, have a wife and 6 children. Disabled from the waist down, and still work across 17 countries annually.

Doesn't pay Robin's server bills with my personal morals and my credentials, does it?

Reaper0021 wrote: "Pay for mods" is a bad idea. I'm 44, own 4 houses (live in one rent the others 3 small houses to help my disability) and have 1 child...no wife. And? The make-up of my family or my residence doesn't validate my words any more than it does yours. He isn't betraying us. It was always there to see...I know I read it. I'm sorry this has all happened to turn this community on it's damned head. I've seen you posting in forums before and you are one smart guy. You really are. I've enjoyed your input in the past and it's hard for me to see you being this willfully stubborn.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Ha, thank you... I think :/ I have never considered myself a troll (only learnt what it was a couple of year ago...) being a bit of old fashioned.

I just think it can be unwise to just use the arguement that "it's just the way it is". But I also think there can be constructive ways to talk about this. As in trying to organise a way of reducing this "slippery slope" that has been mentioned a number of times. And I wanted to suggest that getting hissy with each other is not going to help... perhaps that what was predicted to happen??

benjaminpen wrote: Are you drunk? No, seriously... Are you? You seem a little incoherent to me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I see no conflict between the following two statements:
"I WILL NOT fight someone's right to charge for mods on ANOTHER site. It is NOT okay to charge for mods on THIS site."
"I WILL fight anyone who says I don't have the right to NOT CHARGE for mods on MY site."

And no, I don't think that mod authors being able to donate some of the money being made to the Nexus is a conflict either.

edit: He didn't get the money from the modders' cut, he got it from Valve's cut.

Reaper0021 wrote: Your right Sunshine maybe that's what I needed to calm down was an impartial 3rd to say something. Yeah I'm going to let this rest for now. Try again tomorrow I think. Peace to you all and Kudos to Sunshinenbrick.

HadToRegister wrote:

Psijonica

I own my house (paid for) and have a wife who loves me and 3 children that I feed and clothe and I am here with my eldest fighting for what I believe is right.

Yet here you are, complaining about seeing advertisements on your FREE account.
If you actually HAD all of that stuff, and were mature, you wouldn't need to list ANY of that, as it has NOTHING to do with your conspiracy theory.

Psijonica
If Dark0ne want to be the Champion then let him refund all the money he gets from valve directly to the moddders. Lets see if he does that eh?

Hey, let's see you contribute to the $500,000 annual upkeep for the nexus THAT YOU USE FOR FREE.
You're using a website for FREE and demanding that someone else PAY for something that has already been explained, that all of us adults were able to comprehend quite clearly on our first read-through of Robin's article.
At this point, I can only chalk up your incomprehension of Robin's explanation as, you're either Drunk, or you're now too emotionally invested in this to save face and back out out gracefully by apologizing.

At this point, you're in a hole so deep, and refuse to see it, that if someone threw you a ladder, you'd start digging with it.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Thanks :D Yeah I really hope that dialogues between parties can be kept open so that they can mutually benefit each other. I know that sounds a bit soppy but I suppose (more movie taglines coming up) we do need to have some hope here... not easy I know but its that or dispair!

Psijonica wrote: Well reaper for one I'm female but in the world we live in everything is fairly androgynous eh?

i am not being stubborn, I am standing up for what I believe in. There is a difference. Dark0ne benefits from Pay-for-Mods. Either way it doesn't hurt him. Right now we are downloading every mod we can because I know that all the mods for Oblivion will soon be pay- for -mod, all the Morrowind mods will be Pay-for-mod...


THIS USED TO BE FREE AND FUN!!!! It will never be fun again, it will just become an expense. Now all these modders are going to cry about SOPA??? hahahaha You deserve SOPA now!

monkeyweather wrote: Thanks for keeping this whole thing civil to the best of your abilities, and for keeping everyone in the loop as much as you can.

SchwererGustav wrote: well i helped people to get their modded skyrim to run for 2 month in the forum after that i thought i payed back what i downloaded here.

and this is the only website i had my addblocker off, too(you know how every other site makes money).

I'm not rich and Psijonica isn't eather i guess so we take that little fun we have left in our lives,
freedom, creativity and helping other people thats what i thought was this side about, but now they sell out and take that last piece of choice that makes us burst out in anger.. can't you people understand this?

This deal will mark the beginning of the end off modding, the last bastion of freedom that was left...

Pestilenz wrote: Yeah the community paid for the servers, by either choosing to get premium either because they had money to spare, wanted to help or wanted the extra features or by "gob beware" using the site and downloading mods, I feel so abused shame one you Dark0ne.

I totally understand what you mean by paying for things through other means than money (creativity, support, non-financial contribution) however I do hope that sometimes it is best to take down things you don't agree with from within. This is to say that although I cannot speak for the site owner nor do I know, or ever talked to him, but he has stated his position and we should try give him some benefit of the doubt because there are things that can be safeguarded against.

Suppose time will tell but it is somewhat comforting to know that the players at hand here do see the value of the community here. Admittedly it might be money orientated, however we can have the chance to show them there is more to modding than that. Then maybe they will see that suffocating all aspects of the free community will stifle creativity. I hope. And we can start by using donation systems. But that's money I hear you say??? Yes but it is important HOW you give money and WHO you give it to. Edited April 25, 2015 by sunshinenbrick