Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24650844. #24651244, #24651614, #24652419, #24653429, #24653759, #24653984, #24654254 are all replies on the same post.

Godlybosshog wrote:

gastovski wrote: Dark0ne should have said that "I'm against paid mods altogether regardless of who gets money. But he is staying neutral about this and this is most disturbing news. I couldn't believe my eyes after reading the last post.

Godlybosshog wrote: If he would of done that, he would of had to reject the 5% offer valve made. But as I stated before, we could of came to another ends. There are plenty of other viable options. Watch Ted Talks The Art of Asking with Amanda Palmer. This site and creators could of lived off donations if it was executed properly with Bethesda. But let bygones be bygones. I just hope it can be resolved in the future, which is why we are all here I presume.

gastovski wrote: It won't be i'm afraid. When money involves it will flow a river without hitting any barriers. I know he is getting %5 from Valve so he is neutral at this but it's totally wrong.

Psijonica wrote: You guys explained your selves much better than I did and somehow avoided all the trolls and insults. i agree with everything that has been posted here... I will just add that there is a reason why Dark0ne doesn't take a position yet and that is because he doesn't have to. He makes money off of the Valve Pay-for-Mods system and if it goes away he can then say, "see I fought for you guys." But if you read what he has been posting it is very clear that he is ok with Pay-for-Mods. He makes a lot of money from this website and he deserves it. It is a good website and he offers a good service, the best really but he lied and he got caught with his pants down.

SOPA is next now... So quickly has this turned against us, so quickly has this generation accepted Pay-for-Mods... the consequences from this terrible mistake are going to reverberate fro a long, long time.

gastovski wrote: I've read your post too and i agree completely, Psijonica. This isn't about only Skyrim modding but people won't realize it. These times are dark and getting darker day by day for us PC gamers.

nekollx wrote: I can see some of your points but if the site promoting the mods (ie Valve) is involved then they have every right to a cut, they are building exposure, is 35% to much, probably but they deserve a cut, as for Bethsoft, well LEGALLY you are making money off their IP, by not giving them a cut your basically breaking IP law and they can sue your ass and take 100% plus your soul, so a cut to Bethsoft is perfectly logical if it prevents mod authors FROM GOING TO JAIL. That said mod authors deserve more then 25% since they are doing the lions share of the work, and larger mods often have teams i mean honestly lets say Falscarr is sold for $4, that means the modder, voice actors, and any one else in the team that expects a cut gets a portion of $1

Psijonica wrote: HANK YOU. That means so much to me. it was very hard not to fall into the TROLL TRAP that Dark0ne started with me. They love to do that here so that they can have a reason to ban you. Then all the kids join in and suddenly the moderators turn the other way because I am choose to take a different position and stand up for my beliefs.

yes you are right, the consequences from this are going to be terrible. The children and most adults don't understand European law or Copy Right LAw. When people complained about STEAM in the UK they turned around and banned all of their accounts. It is a power grab plain and simple.

There are no refunds from STEAM. You only get credit,you can purchase the game and mods and they can ban you at any time and you loose everything.

All the other gaming companies wiill follow this setup. If people like us just shut up like all the trolls want us to then we loose. We MUST KEEP YELLING our displeasure all the while keeping in mind that although our opposition will will try to bait us in a flame war we must keep our heads. Since they don't have a real good argument their only strategy id to try and bait us into a flame war.

@Psijonia, You keep playing the victim and calling other people trolls. Well, let's analyze what you have posted and defended.

___"The children and most adults don't understand European law or Copy Right LAw. When people complained about STEAM in the UK they turned around and banned all of their accounts." -I see no concrete proofs. Pretty general blanketing statement about people too.
___"AND STOP PESTERING ME FOR MONEY!" -When nobody asked you to pay anything on this site?
___"No Endorsements, No Permissions, No Donations. 100% free mods 4-ever, one way or another." -If that's helping the modding community in anyway.....
___"I read what you wrote and I can only giggle that you have lowered yourself to calling me "stupid"' -- When nobody directly said you are stupid (self awareness?)
___"I am a stupid person who drives a Super Snake and I am laughing at how stupid you may think I am." --Maybe that was sarcasm? Or maybe....
___"You can fool all the kids here but anyone with real business and life experience sees right through you" --I guess you're the only expert
___"it says that you feel you need to bully me in order to distract people from the real issue " - victimization (someone call the FBI)
___"Of course I say that with tongue in cheek but I have been fighting the machine my whole life and I am getting tired... this really makes me not want to care any more and just let the children work it out themselves." - That's pretty impressive, fighting the "machines" and all. So vague yet so powerful.
___"If Dark0ne want to be the Champion " ---He never said that, you implied or you twisted his words to say so as evident by his quote: "If people are heralding me, specifically, as their champion in the fight against paid modding then they've done that of their own accord, and I certainly haven't agreed to be that champion."
___"Ya so what. Leave me alone. I was just giving him a little taste of his own medicine. "
___"What does that have to do with you? Right! Nothing. Now go pester someone else. You want to pay for mods, go ahead. I don't care about you. You are not even a modder."
___and then "If you are the adult you claim to be then please act like it now." ----Sounds like trolling to me
___"They gave us the CS (construction set) for free and allowed and trusted us to mod as a hobby. But we abused that trust and turned it into a business. And so now Big Daddy Bethesda is coming and punishing us " --- umm, what?
___"Oh don't bother, that guy xfallen has no friends, no pics, no mods. "
___"I think everyone should pay for mods. I hope it becomes the norm and that people become successful. I hope Dark0ne makes a lot of money from Valve."---Wait what?

I think I'll stop there as this is getting pretty rediculous. There's plenty more information for people to search though. If you read this and still believe she is not trolling, then I rest my case.

[uszpdoz]

In response to post #24666564. #24666719 is also a reply to the same post.

AgnurFarhal wrote:

snapperfishes wrote: I don't think anyone will disagree with you that Bethesda is taking too much of a cut from the modder's profit. However, nobody is forcing modders to subscribe to the paid marketplace, and there are alternative ways to advertise their mods (*cough*nexus*cough*).

im afraid there r more than that..maybe this just merely future assumption....im afraid there will be no dlc from bethesda no patch...bethesda will monetize everything...sell the CK for monthly sub..and release and also must be paid sources code...so community can finish their job for them(already done but not this extensive)..it not the modder fault but if we support them the company sure just milking out the money all the way.

[Shadowmane01]

In response to post #24666564. #24666719, #24666744 are all replies on the same post.

AgnurFarhal wrote:

snapperfishes wrote: I don't think anyone will disagree with you that Bethesda is taking too much of a cut from the modder's profit. However, nobody is forcing modders to subscribe to the paid marketplace, and there are alternative ways to advertise their mods (*cough*nexus*cough*).

uszpdoz wrote: im afraid there r more than that..maybe this just merely future assumption....im afraid there will be no dlc from bethesda no patch...bethesda will monetize everything...sell the CK for monthly sub..and release and also must be paid sources code...so community can finish their job for them(already done but not this extensive)..it not the modder fault but if we support them the company sure just milking out the money all the way.

That's how big business works when you go to the supermarket and pay less than £1 for four pints of milk how much of that do you think the farmer gets. Right now it costs more to produce four pints than the farmer receives for it but whens the last time you refused to buy milk ?. Edited April 26, 2015 by Shadowmane01

[popcorn71]

In response to post #24665034. #24665599, #24665729, #24666009, #24666034, #24666109 are all replies on the same post.

digitaltrucker wrote:

popcorn71 wrote: You do understand that this was porbaly Bethesda and Valves intention from the start, right? Stir up enough anger in the the modding communitys 'old guard' and get enough of the talented modders who produce free mods to leave the modding scene in disgusted, and by definition you reduce the competition that the newer payed junk mods have to deal with. There for more mod sales.

From a tactical stand point it makes sense . Weather or not its a good idea from a over all strategic stand point is something else entirely.

digitaltrucker wrote: I absolutely understand that. That actually was my first thought when this all started. Furthermore, I suspected something was in the wind when Bethesda announced their special little news conference taking place right before this year's E3. I didn't for a minute think it would really be about announcing new games, that's way too expensive for something of that nature.

Ultimately, there's nothing we can really do BUT protest and hope for the best. Money talks loudest, always has. This also means that our loudest voice is used when we withhold our money. Call me a voice in the wilderness all you want, but my own personal integrity will be satisfied.

WightMage wrote: For what its worth, it was good meeting you, digitaltrucker. For my part, there's no point in quitting Skyrim or the other ES/FO games, since I paid for them already- but I will likely not purchase anymore Bethesda titles in the future.

Perhaps its my remaining loyalty from the old days of Valve's earlier years, but I intend to give Valve another chance, given what GabeN has told us and the fact they are not receiving a majority share of the profits, and were not directly responsible for the abysmal profit arrangement. That said, I personally won't be purchasing any mods through SW, and will instead donate here, knowing the modders wikl get 100% of my proceeds. I have already begun.

Time will tell what sort of alignment shift Steam will bring, but for the time being they still seem to be somewhere in the neutral. I can't begrudge a company wanting to make money, after all. But I can begrudge exploitive business practices and unfinished games with dozens of day one DLC. And to be fair, with exception to Dota, Valve hasn't made a new game in years.

Hope to see you around, even if its just as a visitor.

zanity wrote: If you do not understand that Zenimax is more concerned with DESTROYING free mods than making money from paid Skyrim mods, you fail to understand the core strategy of a company dishonest enough to claim ownership of Oculus Rift VR, because they allow Carmack to work there for a short period.

Zenimax is trashing the mod community for Skyrim, because it wants 100% of modding for Fallout 4 to be paid, since only Zenimax via Steam will distribute ANY mod crafted for Fallout 4.

People are making a huge mistake as to the real aim. Zenimax CANNOT own the copyright of mods made for Fallout 4- that is IMPOSSIBLE under Law despite what idiots her claim. But what Zenimax can do is make the modding tools part of an NDA agreement modders must sign before they are allowed to use them, and by doing so claim EXCLUSIVE distribution rights of all mods- including the ability to set a price for the mod WITHOUT the consent of the mod author. The mod author, of course, would receive the agreed percentage of the selling price.

So Zenimax would set the mod price, and choose whether a mod would be sold in the first place. BUT Zenimax would seek to accept no legal liability for the 'quality' of the mod, or liability for mods found to be using illegal unlicensed content.

At least with Skyrim, because Zenimax has to live with the existing licence agreements that came with modding tools, the mod community has the ability to just ignore the Zenimax/Valve attempt to ruin Skyrim modding. Zenimax is ploughing over the glorious flowerbeds of free Skyrim modding to create 'fresh' 'fertile' ground in readiness for paid Fallout 4 modding.

Zenimax is literally happy for the world to lose a million things of beauty, so Zenimax gains a handful of business boosts. It is for Skyrim mod authors to decide whether they will allow Zenimax this 'victory' for corporate greed no matter what the price.

Mod authors with a realistic thirst for sensible profit should turn their attention to Fallout 4. Fallout 4 modding will be a commercial fresh start where the joke about software developers expecting users to PAY for bug fixes will happen for real. BUT, since this will be known from day one, no-one can say Zenimax is being dishonest with the Fallout 4 situation.

WightMage wrote: Wouldn't it be simpler to just abandon Zenimax and support other upcoming sandbox style open world fantasy RPG's that support modding and will launch with mod tools?

Like the Witcher 3?

While personal integrity and morals are all well and good, there are more effective ways of fighting this then throwing up your hand and leaving the modding scene. If what your seeing now bothers you so much then the best response is to voice your outrage by not buying anything from valve or bethesda and then to just keep on releasing free mod the same as you were before all this s#*! happened. And if that's not enough for you then use this as a learning opportunity and teach your self how to make even BETTER mods than before. Don't just out shine the mods on the workshop; put them to shame. That will hit valve and bethesda right were it hurts the most: the wallet. That is how you fight this. Edited April 26, 2015 by popcorn71

[Shadow of Serenity]

 

In response to post #24666194. #24666479 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

Shadow of Serenity wrote:

OrmustheBlue wrote: This is where I fear it's going. Modders will be forced to make paid mods to at least cover the cost of the CK.

And Bethesda will be well within their rights to charge whatever they want for a monthly subscription. Is it a dick move? Probably. But this a free country and part of the cost of that freedom is that people can do whatever they want as long as it is legal and reasonable, just as anyone is free to not buy their next game.

 

 

Dick move feels like an understatement. But yes, they could do it and weather the outrage relatively unscathed too. Apparently only 14% of Skyrim sales were on PC to begin with so despite how cosmically important the modding feels to we here on the Nexus it evidently can't be THAT important. They could very easily decide the potential profits outweigh the righteous ire they'd be inviting. But it would work, it appeals to self interest of modders while also undercutting actual reasonable choice. So snekky.

 

BUT!

 

HEAR THIS BETHESDA! You will make this young person lose 5 Faith-In-Humanity points if you do this! Consider that carefully before you let corporate greed turn you totally evil. Youthful idealism > greed.

[snapperfishes]

In response to post #24666359. #24666444 is also a reply to the same post.

elderdrake wrote:

uszpdoz wrote: ive seen gopher vid and he said how this paid thing gonna kill this modding community.....now the chain reaction is real though.

It's splitting the community because nobody is wrong:

1) People who SUPPORT paid mods think modders are well within their rights to make money from their own hard work. There are some legal kinks to work out (e.g. mods that use resources from other mods), but those can be solved. Modders spend a lot of time to develop their mods, and if they want to be paid for their work no one can stop them.

2) People who are AGAINST paid mods because they believe mods should be free and open. Having paid mods lock down resources that may otherwise be shared freely. If you develop a paid mod you would be less inclined to share your resources with other modders. This stifle the flow of knowledge and damages the community.

[djekmiami]

You're very worried about this. I can see why, the free promotion on this site of downloading free mods is great business and you have made good money off of this of course through ads and so forth. Being worried about this new development can be a strain on your business.

 

I know you may worry about ppl pulling their major mods off of your site and putting them on Steam for $$$ that may I add they do deserve. But don't worry, you'll still get traffic and so forth.

 

Those vacays you have to put off that are funded by the income you generate from the traffic of users seeking the mods on this site are well of being put of. Come up with an incentive for the mod authors that make you money by generating traffic through your site via ads wanting views and so forth and you'll be fine.

 

Don't bring on a campaign of "why modding should not be commercialized etc" but rather be real and give the ppl/mod authors a reason to stay and post and in the end make you money and get something out of it themselves.

 

 

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24665669. #24666064 is also a reply to the same post.

abestrus wrote:

WightMage wrote: Aye. We must be like the Greeks during the invasion by Xerxes.

...let's just hope the Nexus doesn't represent the 300 Spartans.

Scissor me Timbers!!!!


Sorry, it was mentioning Xerxes what did it. I couldn't resist.

[phantompally76]

You know what sucks the most?

 

I haven't logged into Skyrim in 3 days.

 

That hasn't happened in over 3 years.

 

For me at least, THAT is the most tangible effect of this controversy. I have absolutely no desire to play my favorite game anymore.

 

It's not even burnout. It's sheer principle.

 

Well, one way or another, that's something I'm going to have to come to terms with.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24667284.

phantompally76 wrote:

Maybe I should practice what I preach and remind myself that Skyrim won Game of the Year on three platforms without a single player mod.