Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[RoyBatterian]

Right on Dark0ne, If you will fight tooth and nail for us to remain having the choice, good on you.

 

You have my full support, not that it means much.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24645544. #24646089, #24649659 are all replies on the same post.

jmeks23 wrote:

PharCry wrote: "HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus!

locomotive1236 wrote: Our of curiosity, do some of the tools used to make mods, such as blender, nifskope, photoshop, have a disclaimer saying that not to be used for commercial products? If you do you have to buy a licensed one for a prolonged period? I know most don't really care if you use it for personal stuff, but once it's out in the market they have rights to the products too?

Very important point made above!

[keithapple]

In response to post #24649629.

keithapple wrote:

sorry for the typo, i mean there's a rumor about Steam updating Skyrim and other games to lock down the game content to not allow external files (including mods) to be integrated to their games... please tell me that this isn't true...

[rizilliant]

OT: i too believe this is going to hurt the friendly, loving, passionate modding community in the long.. Maybe not immediately, but a darknmess has just been unleashed.. All i can think of, is the chinese gold farmer/sellers plagueing mmo's.. Theyve just been given an "in" to modding.. And thats not all.. Many have said (and i agree) that when its free, and i donate, i dont feel anything is owed me, supprt wise.. If its got a pricetag, im not purchasing a product, in which, i will expect it to work with, update, and be supported by the author, and with other mods.. I just think this is bad, and will indeedscar, if not ruin, a wonderful community, thats been built over several decades! Edited April 25, 2015 by rizilliant

[jediakyrol]

 

In response to post #24643354. #24643854, #24643949, #24644484, #24645019, #24645409, #24645524 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

joz23 wrote:

Qrygg wrote: First of all, no one is forcing you to buy mods, they are a 100% optional part of PC gaming.

 

Second of all, Nexus is not "in bed" with Valve and Bethesda. Nexus happens to be the largest or one of the largest mod repositories for TESV: Skyrim, and it would be foolish to not have relations with Bethesda, who created the game, and Valve, who distribute the game. If Bethesda got pissed at Nexus, they could issue a Cease and Desist letter for using trademarked/copyrighted material. They support the modding community because, frankly, it means better reviews and more playing of their games on the PC platform; and they don't have to pay a dime of it.

 

If anything I choose to view the cut from Valve as a thumb-in-cheek move: "Valve is allowing modders to charge money for their mods? Well let's take a piece of the pie, no need for Valve to grow rich off modders hard work!"

PharCry wrote: Qrygg is right, no one is forcing you to download and install content that is not included with the game itself.

 

But the cut Valve is asking, is a bit absurd... 75% for something they never even touched as far as the game goes? That seems a bit shady IMO...

sh0d4n wrote:

100% optional FREE part of PC gaming.. Until yesterday.

 

 

 

So its better to sponge as the community slowly dies?

 

We are talking a slow death here. May as well take what I can as the ship goes down?

 

I honestly dont know what to believe. All I know for sure is that this is not good for the modding freedom we have all come love. I dont understand why so many are blind to where it is clearly going to end up. Its like they resigned themselve to the fact that its going to happen no matter what, so the'll just position themselves to benefit from it while they can.

 

People really are selfish. They are only thinking about the now, not the future generations of modders.

sunshinenbrick wrote: The truth in this is painful to read. Look what Apple did to Linux. Fight the good fight people!

Paragon777 wrote: He's not wrong..

Its not about just complaining or being as simple as "not having to buy" hes talking the truth about how it's heading and what it means. He is simply saying the natural cause and effect of things that WILL 100% happen unless this is reversed.

Its just business and statistics. It will dmg modding.

Sure it will still be around; because it was always a tight nit community however that's IF they don't find a way to eliminate non sanctioned modding as it could be made non sanctioned modding under this coarse in order to protect themselves with this model.

This entire model can be used as a way to profit off modders and at the same time turn all non financial generating contributions to be labeled as some form of piracy..

Since the Publisher is not getting their chunk and or it distracts from their sales.. Do you understand for example a nexus mod could conflict with a well known steam sold mod this would cause conflict that would require actions.

He came up with a valid point; in order to control quality and content because this has opened a mass tear in space of potential lawsuits they will force it to be workshop bound. Let alone by nature with current systems it encourages low quality and sloppy work or then the fact that mods in general brake your game unless you're a master at it lol. Let alone no possible way to even CHECK the quality of a mod yet your still charging for it?

IF MORE control was given to modders via better software tools this could be lessened. OR if Beth took the mods in then looked over them and made sure they worked; by then releasing their own version then giving you your cut.

Its 101 stuff.

Its great to be hopeful and all but this is the agenda. Its was not Val/Beth saying boy gee wiz lets give back to our community... Matter of fact its more like well lets get this "blank" storm over with before the next games come in. This will net them double profits when it does.. Its about Profit...

This is nickle and dimming after a slew of a yr plus now of this kind of thing escalating by companies. At the same time it is literally almost like setting p a sweat shoo lol.

 

At the same time the current system encourages and rewards fast and sloppy work; it appeals to the get rich quick types; not the modders who work hard and should get something. Even then tech they are using them for cheap content that makes them hundreds and the modders nothing. Again Keep in mind this is LEADING to the next 2 games.

You will get 1000s of greedy people suddenly participating and the slander, he/she stole, used, etc will be impossible to ignore.

The patchiness of making such claims when in these cases people use the same resources; of which none belong to either in the first place is hilarious. But because your being paid this changes that all. Its contradicts to the publishers own stance and IS open to legality.

I mean my god Chesko already got hit day one by a claim; legit or not.. When the get rich YT/twitch wannabe desperadoes join in on this it going to be all hell braking lose. And if they don't start now they will for sure on next release.

At the same time we then have the current debacle going down right now..

SKYui is required for most modders that are new to even intermediate at this stage for MCM capability alone.

Now he has pulled out from nexus (well all future development.) A Core mod needed now for most mods.

At the same time lol even SKyui makes use of SKSE... So SKYui profiting off of not just mod users but modders should be forced to pay SKSE should they not. Im just using this as a small example; but this is the "blank"fest that will be coming.

And you know what who is to say that Beth should not have included their own caked in system like SKui has for modders. Because by not doing so and no controlling profit from both markets they are effectively able to nickle and dime people on a whole 'nother lvl!!!!!

Which is why I said if they are going through with this they are goign to have to give access to much better tools to the communities next time around.

 

Your not wrong either but you are not at all looking at the reality of the business model nor the effect it will have. The loopholes that will open over this kind of exchange BECAUSE of the BAD people will be so large that if they truly want to keep something functional up they will by nature be required to consolidate their set up; which means the end of nexus and the like.

(Unless of coarse they have something going on behind the scene; which imo is their own business and non of ours.) But you give to much credit to thinking they will just let things stand as is with the way things will go. They might scratch each others back; im not saying its not possible.

But again its the legalities that would by defacto lead to it having to be ended. .ie you cant have your cake and eat it too.

This then leads to a future of companies now getting their content from players at Sweatshop value while they company makes bank. And in order to keep order they would have to lock down any modding not going through official channels as a form of piracy.

 

Why do you play this down so simple as a god forbid they let modders add an ability to pay.

LOL its an agenda not a handout..

 

Yes I know English but im bad at it..

shadowslasher410 wrote: You... did read the entire thing right? even the part where it says this:

 

"I was not under an NDA, I was simply told "we haven’t announced this information publicly yet, so we appreciate you keeping this under wraps for now.". If you believe I should have outed them right there and then and completely destroyed my relationship with Valve and Bethesda then I think you're being naive."

 

Oh, and by the way, if you think Valve is the first to want to profit off of modders' blood, sweat and tears, you're sorely mistaken. If you Google ANY sufficiently popular mod, I can guarantee you that there's gonna be pirates selling what was supposed to be a FREE MOD for MONEY. And guess what? NONE of that money goes to the mod author, and there are more than a fair few number of morons who will buy it...

How about a model where jobs are offered to the best and most talented modders? Then really will see some inovation in the way companies interact with communities.

 

We already have that...over the years several of our community members have gotten jobs at game companies based solely on the mods they put up here. (Dark0ne probably remembers exactly who) And outside...the guys at Gearbox were once just lowly doom/hexen/quake modders who hit it big when they teamed up to make a Half-Life mod. (Valve has always kept an eye on modders and indie devs... ... ...which is why their recent actions are such a big shock... ... ...but then...I guess they just aren't the people they used to be...)

[z4x]

In response to post #24649579.

Barbelos wrote:

Don't be naive, they do it only to keep our mouths shut.

[Reaper0021]

I've had it. For the past 48 hours this whole debacle has dominated almost my every gaming moment. I stand behind modders get paid for their work, just not Valve/Bethesda's 75% cut. It's a pure ripoff. I've been sitting here reading the posts and it amazes me how many people here are entitled acting little non-READING kids. Jesus READ what Robin aka Dark0ne has wrote time and time again. He isn't in Valve or Bethesda's back pocket, there is no 'grand conspiracy' going on, there are no 'massive payments' being made to Robin for this site nor is this site going to start charging for mods, selling out to Valve, etc. Jesus I thought YouTube was bad. Do a lot of you people not READ? Know how to? What's Dark0ne got to do to convince some of you? type the s#*! in blood? This is getting old the constant attacks vs a young man that has been running this site since what? 2001? Age 14? 13? I just don't get it. I'm out. Bless the Nexus and you Robin/Staff. Those of you offering mature dialogue....I'm happy your hear. Those of you too stupid to read....there is a special on some books at "Toys R US" "Curious George" series.

[locomotive1236]

In response to post #24644444. #24644464, #24644604, #24648494, #24648589 are all replies on the same post.

pokenar wrote:

PharCry wrote: That's just a dick move

xaosbob wrote: And ironically also makes the mod-author-chosen donation from Valve even more necessary. Maybe drop a couple bucks for a basic membership instead?

HadToRegister wrote: Big Deal, all that means is you were using the site FOR FREE, (which you don't seem to have a problem with), and were never a supporter in the first place, so you're not punishing ANYBODY.
The fact that you HAD to come here and tell EVERYBODY WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO, shows how Effective your little "Ad Blocker" tirade is going to be.

Me? I'm a lifetime supporter because I READ FACTS, and make my own decisions, rather than making knee jerk decisions and parroting conspiracy theories.

HadToRegister wrote: Oh, yea, by the way, you and your SIX POSTS must carry a LOT of weight around here, so go turn your Ad Blocker back on because now the Nexus is DOOMED!!! DOOMED I TELL YOU!! :D

@HadtoRegister, Please don't measure people just by the number of posts they have. This is a community and constructive opinions are welcomed. Everyone starts out with 0 and build it slowly over time. Carrying weight is not possible if you don't start from the beginning. However, I disagree with pokenar for using that as an excuse to use his adblock. You're not helping the situation by enforcing the extreme to a free mod site for you to use. By your stance, you're using this website, therefore you are indirectly condoning his actions, ads or no ads. If you want to prove your point, shut off the internet and go to sleep.

[rizilliant]

I could have sworn a few months back ( ive been playing none modded games for awhile) that Skyrim had just under 50k mods on the Nexus.. Wasnt it at 49,000 and change? Ive been going by this comparison for a few months, and i hope i havent been misrepresenting THAT badly, lol.. Was there possibly some "cleaning house" that went on? I could swear i saw just under 50k mods?!

[Pops53]

I've had time to calm down.

 

I agree with Chesko in what he said about Nexus. I believe that the Nexus is a business. I like that I can find free mods here, but I realize now that it is Dark0ne's business. I understand how he could rationalize accepting funds from Valve to help his business. Playing ads and having subscribers help his business. It realize that it may not have started that way in the beginning, but that's the way it is now. You don't take trips to Spain without money.

 

People that don't understand this are in for a disappointment.

 

I also realize that modding isn't going to be what it was in the past. Modding was birthed in the passion for creation, and I remember feeling that passion when I discovered mods. But...people are right...things change. Modding is also going to become an occupation, just like Contracting is an occupation. People will do it for money to improve their lives. There's going to be two types of mod environments now - one environment based on the passion for modding and the accolades and admiration (and perhaps donations) that come with that; the other environment will be based on business and personal gain.

 

I cant honestly say which one is actually better, or which one will be the future right now. If I had to make an educated guess tho, I would say that modding as a means of improving one's life is going to edge out modding for passion. These are just the times we live in. People need money to live, and modding will become another way to get it.

 

I applaud the Nexus for being a place where I could learn without cost about modding and try out passionate modders' work. I applaud all of the modders who develop these things because of their love for gaming. But I also understand that this won't always be the case.

 

What I am most concerned about is the disappearance of places like the Nexus and ModDB, and the disappearance of the passion and fun of modding, based on corporate profits and politics. I am an old man and I have seen it all; believe me when I tell you that these corporate entities want you you to pay....forever.

 

I appeal to all of you who mod and use mods to pull together here and keep that modding passion alive.