Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Vecordia777]

You're still taking money from the snakes. Still unacceptable.

[SjoertJansen]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689, #24674789, #24674949, #24675064, #24675239, #24675909, #24676019, #24676044, #24676314, #24676354, #24676424, #24676519, #24676714, #24678329 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity, and blind loyalty to wolves in sheeps' clothing. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Vidicus wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

bigdeano89 wrote: WORDS speak louder when its an explanation. I will say again, he is NOT the only site to be on the service provider list, AFKMODs and MCM menu are on there too. People are just flocking here because Chesko took a hissy fit and tried to move the blame.

phantompally76 wrote: bigdean, rest assured, the community is JUST as angry with those entities as they are with Dark0ne and with sellout mod authors and with Valve and Bethesda.

The only difference is that those entities aren't saying "I don't like this one bit, but I'll still take the money from it".

AFAIK, those entities aren't saying much of anything.

But I'm sure some white knight will swoop in and prove me wrong.

lowegule wrote: Take the money, support the free mod author. It's simple.

gastovski wrote: You are awesome Lateraliss.

bigdeano89 wrote: Thats just it, and is what none of you seem to get; Dark0ne hasnt said he dislikes paid modding, he just doesnt like its implementation just now, so the whole "saying one thing, doing another" argument is completely moot.

The point is the Nexus is and always will be free for us, end of story.

digitaltrucker wrote: He objects to the implementation, yet gladly and willingly profits from it.

phantompally76 wrote: @bigdeano You keep telling yourself that.

The fanbois on Steam thought the same thing. They were......mistaken.

bigdeano89 wrote: Its not a profit system, its a bloody donation! Its not mandatory for authors to give him a cut, and even then its a tiny amount! End of the day, Dark0ne is exploring areas to keep this site going, completely free for us all. Nexus is a massive networked business based on ad revenue and donations, we ALWAYS pay nothing unless we decide to, but we cannot expect the site to keep chugging along without looking for other ways to keep it going.

digitaltrucker wrote: Modders aren't giving him a cut. Steam is giving him a cut at the modder's request. So he's saying that he doesn't approve of Steam's model, but willingly profits from it.

bigdeano89 wrote: Oh for goodness sake, I give up. Good luck finding another FREE modding site that isnt doing the exact same thing folks. I'm done trying to talk sense into you all.

WightMage wrote: I offer a different take on the entire situation:

He can either take the small pittance that Valve is offering, when they themselves are only making a little more than the mod author themselves off of a mod (Bethesda takes 40% no matter what, Valve can either take 35%-30%, depending on the whims of the mod author),

Or he can reject it, and be seen as too good for the Steam Workshop and/or a possible opponent and roadblock. The fact of the matter is, if Bethesda and Valve wanted to destroy the Nexus, there is nothing Robin can do to stop them, even if we were to donate all our proceeds to a special legal fund JUST for him.

Valve may be a more lenient in this respect since most of their big names came from the mld scene anyway (per GabeN) but Bethesda has no such reason to be lenient. They knew we were a possible source of income for years, they just didn't act on us until they thought the time was right. And regardless of what you think of the Dark0ne's ultimately morality and ethics, it still stands that what he does, he does for the Nexus. Or at least, he thinks benefits the Nexus.

Put more simply, when you're in the position he is, you need a bit of tact in deciding when to play things smooth, what things you CAN explicitly fight against, and what things are better too accept.

The Nexus, regardless of our community and power, is still a mouse against the powerhouse that are Bethesda and Valve's whims. Our war, if we continue it, must be asymmetrical and well played. But not unless we can reunite the broken clans under SOMEONE.

Each day we fight with each other, the more ground we lose. Wrath will only get us so far- has only gotten us so far.

@WightMage

Well said.

[Kevin7557]

When all this has passed and you are no longer at risk of making enemies, I do hope you will share with us the nastier details behind this whole event. Till then thanks for the clarification.

[Walruscopter]

In response to post #24677059. #24678814 is also a reply to the same post.

Walruscopter wrote:

Kevin7557 wrote: I wouldn't say he's completely open, but he seems to be as open about this as he is capable or willing to be which is better than most. Going further would be making a marter of himself, and while a noble endeavor for the betterment of everyone, it is also one that typically ruins your life.

For the rest you have to read between the lines and think of the implications of what he's said. He won't make an enemy of Bethesda means that Zenimax and Bethesda are pushing this and are willing to consider people enemies.

Grown up world is a harsh place filled with horrible people...for now anyway, so what he's said is respectable and him remaining where he is, without jumping on ether bandwagon is a smart tactical position. If Bethesda and Valve fail with this it will be because they screwed up, not because he did anything. Perhaps down the road he will tell us more of the nastier details, but until then this was good.

Why assume that there are nastier details that will make everything worse?

I know we've all become a bit cynical arguably with reason over the last while but we need to keep it in check or it'll become the future as well and publishers will use it against us like the "because piracy" nonsense. As in they'll use "everyone is just a cynic these days" as an excuse for broken games.

Valve and sites like the Nexus (the "good guys" ) are often put on pedestals by the communities, for goodness sake look at all this "Gaben" stuff, then the second they do something that seems "off" or even slightly less than divine the world turns on them for not living up to the impossible standards that they had personally attached to them!

Give it a chance, be ready to take your stand for what you believe in if it comes to that but hope for the best.

Perhaps Valve genuinely tried to do something they thought might be nice (you know Valve, the guys some of the world practically worship for all the good they've done PC gaming) but just got a few bits and pieces wrong on launch? Babies are pretty disgusting and/or useless when born, but we don't condemn them as disgusting, divisive, money-leeches and betrayers of all that is good and assume that their initial flaws indicate a future axe murderer.

Maybe Valve have fallen, maybe this is the end of the internets and modding and it's all going to pot. Much more likely it's just a bump in the road that's opened a few old wounds but in doing so brought attention to them. Even if it is all some terrible greed driven ploy, it'll only be successful if people buy into it, those people being us as the consumer base of mods, and if we buy into it then we deserve whatever we get, good or bad. Edited April 26, 2015 by Walruscopter

[Kevin7557]

In response to post #24679364.

Vecordia777 wrote:

Spit in one hand and wish in the other. Tell me which fills up first.

Sadly the world is filled with corruption and I don't fault the owner of this site for taking money. I think he is a bit sanctimonious about it, but that's fine.

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24679364. #24679719 is also a reply to the same post.

Vecordia777 wrote:

Kevin7557 wrote: Spit in one hand and wish in the other. Tell me which fills up first.

Sadly the world is filled with corruption and I don't fault the owner of this site for taking money. I think he is a bit sanctimonious about it, but that's fine.

Go and try to find another modding site that doesnt have the same deal in place. Good luck trying, you wont find one.

[GhostAgent]

Hello Dark0ne, Nexus Staff, and fellow community members,

 

I believe I have an answer to Steam's paid for mod plan that the Nexus could incorporate and even be seen as the standard that others will follow. It isn't a wildly radical different model than what the Nexus currently uses, but rather enhances it. This is a fairly long post so I hope spoilers will work as I do not want to take up all the space:

 

 

 

 

Due to Steam's paid model coming out, more and more Nexus users are offering donations to their favorite mod authors. This is absolutely fantastic and shows that the community is willing to give rather than just receive (as it primarily has been doing), and further it shows that people prefer Nexus over Steam. (Of course Steam auto-updates mods which can break games, so I don't blame them.)

 

 

I think now is the absolute perfect time to revamp Nexus' current donating system and offer a better alternative for both modders and mod authors than steam. Below are some ideas to go about this which I believe you will like:

 

--1-- The major underlying factor (in my opinion) is that some of these authors mod for more than a hobby and would absolutely love to get into the gaming scene. Of course they make professional mods and would be ultra super happy to be reimbursed for their work. This theory is backed by the fact that so many modders jumped aboard Steam's roll out--which hasn't gone so smoothly. (They need a serious PR team to consult.)

 

 

Nexus is already a better alternative to Steam due to it being free and because it is the largest modding community. (Thank you by the way.) What we need is a better way to offer donations. That is where the idea comes in. Remember when you rolled out your new endorse feature? What happened? More mods were endorsed. The users that completely forgot to endorse mods all of a sudden were nicely reminded to endorse their downloads and viola.....endorsements grew.

 

 

So, this new system would run a check for mod download dates and mods currently used. NMM could be easily upgraded to do this. If a mod has been installed and stayed in someone's list for say.....Oh.....2 or 3 months, it is safe to assume that they are keeping the mod and have enjoyed playing with it. After a check is run, they will have a little popup with a friendly text noting that they have used said mod for roughly two months and that if they enjoy it, they should consider donating a dollar or two in order support the modder. They will then be presented with two options: 1) Donate or 2) No thank you and do not ask me again in regards to this mod.

 

 

See? Alright, so that little popup will popup for each mod used for at least two months. This way no one is being bombarded.

 

The whole concept could even apply to manual downloaders as well, though it would be slightly different. The reminder screen would be a popup or somehow attached to the endorsement management screen. Or better yet, right on the download screen where the "reminder to endorse" is at. (It would also remind you of mods you downloaded a couple of months back and ask if you would like to donate or decline donating.)

 

 

This I feel would contribute to more donations. But......that is really the tip of the iceberg of the possibilities which are explored further below:

 

 

--2-- We could build the Nexus around not just an endorsement community, but donation community too. Right now, people get recognized if they support the site--which is a good idea. However, a new screen could be placed in the mod's navbar (where it is has the buttons for the description, the files, the posts, the changelog etc) that shows the names of the donators--NOT the amount of the donations though, as some prefer to keep that private. Further, a scoring system (which I will refer to as a "Merit System") could be incorporated that gives points for people who donate and new titles could be listed under the current member statuses (the supporter or member titles). These new titles would be to reward the donators--names such as "Grateful User", "Outgoing Supporter", "Generous User" and "Mod Author Contributor"--just examples. The more you donate to authors (NOT the amount of the donations) the more points you get and after attaining so many points, your rank is increased.

 

 

That whole concept let's people see first hand who is truly grateful and sets them apart. There is of course no punishment for the "gimme" users, but donating will be encouraged and accepted as much as endorsements.

 

This method encourages people to donate even if it is just a buck--nothing fancy like $10 dollar donations or $15 dollar donations. Rather $1 dollar donations for files that thousands of people have access to. Plus, another popup could be given when they endorse! Such as: "We're glad you liked the mod enough to endorse it! Would you care to donate a dollar to the author as well as a thank you for his effort?". That isn't so blunt and I'm sure many would go ahead. (Imagine 4000 people donating a dollar to a mod author. Viola.......)

 

Further, after they click endorse and see a contribute button appear, they will enter the amount themselves. This way they aren't tied to just giving one dollar--most will give two or three.

 

 

This concept develops into a model of trades of services too:

 

--3-- This one is sort of rough, but the donations don't have to be in the form of money necessarily. Mod authors could manually list a name of a user in the new "donated to the mod" screen for people who truly give back by donating time and or some sort of service. If someone made a graphic (title) for a mod, the author could manually list that user as a donator, or even if someone helps to trouble shoot user issues, they could be listed too. The author chooses. This is a bit more prestigious than being listed as a co-author and more accurate. (I'm thinking of one point allowed per mod, not multiple points per mod--that system would be abused.)

 

 

Tying it all in: remember the idea of a merit system? If someone is listed as being a donater, they receive merit points and will be recognized as a good community member. So, more people could start helping out in unique ways and earn merit points from mod authors. People would be more inclined to be the helpful user so as to get points. (A drastic change from the outcry of selfish jerks I've seen lately.)

 

 

So now we would have a community of reciprocity rather than a community of "give me everything for free, and I may endorse if I find your works worthy of my praise", Big difference........

 

 

it doesn't stop there......this whole idea of a merit system will have the ultimate award of being given a year free membership of the Nexus. (A whole bunch of points will of course be needed for that award though.) If someone is already a member, then they will have a membership that they can "gift" to someone else--such as a new author they like or a friend within the community. See? The gift keeps on giving.

 

(If they aren't a lifetime member, they could keep the membership time for themselves and just have it appended to their current membership time too.)

 

 

Now, this system of reciprocity includes helping out the Nexus as well:

 

--4-- Alright, so now we have a community based on reciprocity and endorsements. The Nexus can get some aid too!

 

I read from you that mod authors uploading on steam can click a little checkbox which functions as a thank you to a community of their choosing and the Nexus is one of those. If someone purchases a mod, 5% of Valve's income goes to the Nexus. It works as if though the author is donating a small portion of profit to the Nexus, but the funds are coming from Valve--which is a nice gesture by the way.

 

 

That idea could be recycled here. When a mod author opens the option to donate on one of his mod's pages, he can check whether he wants to donate some to the Nexus or not. Let's use the same amount--5% of the donation. That would offer some aid to the Nexus. I'm sure most the authors here would allow that.

 

In the name of transparency, a little screen would alert the donator that the author has selected a small percentage of donations to aid the Nexus as well and a sincere thank you message should follow.

 

 

That is the whole of the idea. So, what we would be doing is offering a much friendlier service as an opposition to Steam's Pay For Mod model. Mod authors would still retain control over their work which will make them happy and keeps the authors uploading mods here on the Nexus rather than Steam, which of course helps the Nexus too and those donations will end up yielding higher amount for the mod author since the majority of the funds goes straight to them. Plus, members who support them are given recognition in the community, and part of their support could automatically go towards the Nexus if the mod author so chooses to allow it--which most will.

 

 

All that and the users who are in it for the freebies and don't care about giving anything back can still have full access to all the content found on the Nexus. Plus, since this is strictly a donation based system, legal rights over modded assets remains a non-issue where as there has already been an issue over on the Steam side of things. I truly believe that this model of supporting mod authors--which is really just an enhanced version of what we currently have--would be embraced and seen as the proper method for financially aiding the many awesome creators out there. Paying isn't in any way enforced on anybody and the mod authors who prefer to keep donations closed are able to still do so.

 

 

Now, what do you think? I'm not an author........but I am a supporter of one! So, I came at this from a different angle rather than mod user vs modder which is what the little battle was all about. If you like this concept as a whole and would like me to help your staff implement any or all of these ideas, I would be happy to do so. It would be my little way of giving back to the Nexus.

 

 

:smile: That's all I got.

 

 

Thank you for your time; regards,

 

GhostAgent

[bigdeano89]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689, #24674789, #24674949, #24675064, #24675239, #24675909, #24676019, #24676044, #24676314, #24676354, #24676424, #24676519, #24676714, #24678329, #24679484 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity, and blind loyalty to wolves in sheeps' clothing. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Vidicus wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

bigdeano89 wrote: WORDS speak louder when its an explanation. I will say again, he is NOT the only site to be on the service provider list, AFKMODs and MCM menu are on there too. People are just flocking here because Chesko took a hissy fit and tried to move the blame.

phantompally76 wrote: bigdean, rest assured, the community is JUST as angry with those entities as they are with Dark0ne and with sellout mod authors and with Valve and Bethesda.

The only difference is that those entities aren't saying "I don't like this one bit, but I'll still take the money from it".

AFAIK, those entities aren't saying much of anything.

But I'm sure some white knight will swoop in and prove me wrong.

lowegule wrote: Take the money, support the free mod author. It's simple.

gastovski wrote: You are awesome Lateraliss.

bigdeano89 wrote: Thats just it, and is what none of you seem to get; Dark0ne hasnt said he dislikes paid modding, he just doesnt like its implementation just now, so the whole "saying one thing, doing another" argument is completely moot.

The point is the Nexus is and always will be free for us, end of story.

digitaltrucker wrote: He objects to the implementation, yet gladly and willingly profits from it.

phantompally76 wrote: @bigdeano You keep telling yourself that.

The fanbois on Steam thought the same thing. They were......mistaken.

bigdeano89 wrote: Its not a profit system, its a bloody donation! Its not mandatory for authors to give him a cut, and even then its a tiny amount! End of the day, Dark0ne is exploring areas to keep this site going, completely free for us all. Nexus is a massive networked business based on ad revenue and donations, we ALWAYS pay nothing unless we decide to, but we cannot expect the site to keep chugging along without looking for other ways to keep it going.

digitaltrucker wrote: Modders aren't giving him a cut. Steam is giving him a cut at the modder's request. So he's saying that he doesn't approve of Steam's model, but willingly profits from it.

bigdeano89 wrote: Oh for goodness sake, I give up. Good luck finding another FREE modding site that isnt doing the exact same thing folks. I'm done trying to talk sense into you all.

WightMage wrote: I offer a different take on the entire situation:

He can either take the small pittance that Valve is offering, when they themselves are only making a little more than the mod author themselves off of a mod (Bethesda takes 40% no matter what, Valve can either take 35%-30%, depending on the whims of the mod author),

Or he can reject it, and be seen as too good for the Steam Workshop and/or a possible opponent and roadblock. The fact of the matter is, if Bethesda and Valve wanted to destroy the Nexus, there is nothing Robin can do to stop them, even if we were to donate all our proceeds to a special legal fund JUST for him.

Valve may be a more lenient in this respect since most of their big names came from the mld scene anyway (per GabeN) but Bethesda has no such reason to be lenient. They knew we were a possible source of income for years, they just didn't act on us until they thought the time was right. And regardless of what you think of the Dark0ne's ultimately morality and ethics, it still stands that what he does, he does for the Nexus. Or at least, he thinks benefits the Nexus.

Put more simply, when you're in the position he is, you need a bit of tact in deciding when to play things smooth, what things you CAN explicitly fight against, and what things are better too accept.

The Nexus, regardless of our community and power, is still a mouse against the powerhouse that are Bethesda and Valve's whims. Our war, if we continue it, must be asymmetrical and well played. But not unless we can reunite the broken clans under SOMEONE.

Each day we fight with each other, the more ground we lose. Wrath will only get us so far- has only gotten us so far.

SjoertJansen wrote: @WightMage

Well said.

You continue to speak common sense Wightmage. Thank you for being one of the sane ones.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24678089. #24678269, #24679224, #24679304 are all replies on the same post.

mkess wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Amazing... and not =/

Yisregaurd wrote: Thank you so much for sharing that Vid.

Arendella wrote: I saw that earlier today I couldn't stop the tears

Mfw at the end...

Though IMO, it should have been Bethesda's face, not Gabe's.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24673389. #24673869, #24673949, #24674134, #24674659, #24674689, #24674789, #24674949, #24675064, #24675239, #24675909, #24676019, #24676044, #24676314, #24676354, #24676424, #24676519, #24676714, #24678329, #24679484, #24679859 are all replies on the same post.

Lateraliss wrote:

carlocgc wrote: Exactly this.

Gameipedia wrote: did you not read the entire post?, His convictions as far as i can tell are to support the growth of modding community and keep a place for people to host and share mods for free, this site is run off of ads and premiums pretty much exclusively, he decided that if people want to give some of their money going into buying mods on steam towards nexus, that sure because it would help support the site, and in no way changes the site, and sure as hell does not change his beliefs which while also being NOT WHAT YOU said they were are also not to white knight against paid modding, if they are good enough they will be bought, if people can earn money doing something they enjoy, they will try to, there's nothing wrong with that and nexus isn't even involved in that. like really I just had to reiterate the very bare-bones point of this post in a much worse way both wordedly, and with misleading quotability, because apparently you either didn't read the whole post, or did not understand the point of the post.

Lateraliss wrote: A really long paragraph, but it doesn't change the facts. Do you know what it's called when you don't support something but accept money from it because "it's going to happen anyways" is? It's called selling out.

When I don't support something, I don't support it, which also means I don't take profits from it. It's called having conviction. To do that, regardless of whether "Nexus is involved in that", which it now is because he has agreed to take money from it, it's a pretty classless thing to do.

You can't bad talk the process, and then profit from it. That's called being a hypocrite.

You may think that I don't understand what he said, which I don't know how you could, because anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be able to see what he said. "I don't support the practice, but I'm going to take money from it anyways." Where he spends the money, or how he thinks this will support the modding community is moot.

phantompally76 wrote: You can buy in to his glib rhetoric and self-righteous narcissism all you want to. That doesn't change the fact that he IS condemning Valve and Steam's business practices with one hand, and accepting money made from those very business practices with the other. No matter how you apologists try to spin it, no matter how hard you close your eyes and try to wish it away, No matter how many hundreds of times you read his 5,000-word essay reassuring you that he's an innocent pawn, taking money from paid mod proceeds is a deliberate, immoral and unethical conflict of interest and a breach of trust, compounded by the fact that he wasn't forthcoming with this information, and only even addressed it because someone else made the community aware of it.

If you're too blind or stubborn or fanatical to see this, or even to stop for 10 seconds and consider it.........then this community is already poised to fall, and corporate greed has already won due to our own short-sightedness, ignorance and blatant stupidity, and blind loyalty to wolves in sheeps' clothing. Because Valve wants you to think that everything is ok. Chesko and Isoku thought everything was ok, because Valve told them everything was ok. The same thing can easily happen here.

All I'm asking is for you to not accept "I'm not doing anything wrong....this is ok" as a legitimate explanation. Open your eyes. Ask questions. Don't let yourself be deceived and tricked like the mod authors in the Steam Sellout er, I mean Rollout Bundle.

bigdeano89 wrote: Maybe you should take a look at the service provider list then, because if theres a mod site you know of, its on there. So is the MCM authors among others. Its an optional donation, nothing more, now move on and stop shouting at the world.

SjoertJansen wrote: Where does it state he does not support it? Show me. He doesn't!

He is wary of the consequences, yes. And he wants to keep modding free. Meaning, fighting to keep the ability to make a mod and upload it for absolute free. NOT, no-one can make money of mods... Where did you get that wrong?

He also makes sure this site will remain free, for as long as free mods can be made...

Fighting to keep modding a game a free thing to do, or fighting against people earning money from mods are two very distinct things.

Vidicus wrote: Actions speak louder than words. Taking part in Valve's actions shows WAY WAY WAY more to me than him typing words.

Actions ALWAYS speak louder than words.

bigdeano89 wrote: WORDS speak louder when its an explanation. I will say again, he is NOT the only site to be on the service provider list, AFKMODs and MCM menu are on there too. People are just flocking here because Chesko took a hissy fit and tried to move the blame.

phantompally76 wrote: bigdean, rest assured, the community is JUST as angry with those entities as they are with Dark0ne and with sellout mod authors and with Valve and Bethesda.

The only difference is that those entities aren't saying "I don't like this one bit, but I'll still take the money from it".

AFAIK, those entities aren't saying much of anything.

But I'm sure some white knight will swoop in and prove me wrong.

lowegule wrote: Take the money, support the free mod author. It's simple.

gastovski wrote: You are awesome Lateraliss.

bigdeano89 wrote: Thats just it, and is what none of you seem to get; Dark0ne hasnt said he dislikes paid modding, he just doesnt like its implementation just now, so the whole "saying one thing, doing another" argument is completely moot.

The point is the Nexus is and always will be free for us, end of story.

digitaltrucker wrote: He objects to the implementation, yet gladly and willingly profits from it.

phantompally76 wrote: @bigdeano You keep telling yourself that.

The fanbois on Steam thought the same thing. They were......mistaken.

bigdeano89 wrote: Its not a profit system, its a bloody donation! Its not mandatory for authors to give him a cut, and even then its a tiny amount! End of the day, Dark0ne is exploring areas to keep this site going, completely free for us all. Nexus is a massive networked business based on ad revenue and donations, we ALWAYS pay nothing unless we decide to, but we cannot expect the site to keep chugging along without looking for other ways to keep it going.

digitaltrucker wrote: Modders aren't giving him a cut. Steam is giving him a cut at the modder's request. So he's saying that he doesn't approve of Steam's model, but willingly profits from it.

bigdeano89 wrote: Oh for goodness sake, I give up. Good luck finding another FREE modding site that isnt doing the exact same thing folks. I'm done trying to talk sense into you all.

WightMage wrote: I offer a different take on the entire situation:

He can either take the small pittance that Valve is offering, when they themselves are only making a little more than the mod author themselves off of a mod (Bethesda takes 40% no matter what, Valve can either take 35%-30%, depending on the whims of the mod author),

Or he can reject it, and be seen as too good for the Steam Workshop and/or a possible opponent and roadblock. The fact of the matter is, if Bethesda and Valve wanted to destroy the Nexus, there is nothing Robin can do to stop them, even if we were to donate all our proceeds to a special legal fund JUST for him.

Valve may be a more lenient in this respect since most of their big names came from the mld scene anyway (per GabeN) but Bethesda has no such reason to be lenient. They knew we were a possible source of income for years, they just didn't act on us until they thought the time was right. And regardless of what you think of the Dark0ne's ultimately morality and ethics, it still stands that what he does, he does for the Nexus. Or at least, he thinks benefits the Nexus.

Put more simply, when you're in the position he is, you need a bit of tact in deciding when to play things smooth, what things you CAN explicitly fight against, and what things are better too accept.

The Nexus, regardless of our community and power, is still a mouse against the powerhouse that are Bethesda and Valve's whims. Our war, if we continue it, must be asymmetrical and well played. But not unless we can reunite the broken clans under SOMEONE.

Each day we fight with each other, the more ground we lose. Wrath will only get us so far- has only gotten us so far.

SjoertJansen wrote: @WightMage

Well said.

bigdeano89 wrote: You continue to speak common sense Wightmage. Thank you for being one of the sane ones.

It's all I can do. :/ This isn't the first time I've been part of a great community that was in the throes of destroying itself.

The only difference is, all the other ones are now dead.