Newbie modder asking for help with custom NPCs

[Patrick64]

Hello,

As a long time Oblivion fan I have started to try my hand at simple mods. butI have run into an odd problem. I can insert custom NPCs but only from a limited number of races. I've been trying to biold my skills by putting a new NPC on the street just inside the west gate in Chedinhall then checking if they are there from a saved game that puts me at the inn there. Open door, they should be out there. This works fine for some races but not others. So the Argonian and the Khaljit are there, interaction with them is all god. Bbut when I try same with Imperial or Nord there is nobdoy there. The NPC does not appear in game. I did check the data files and got a "not a valid file" for the Imperials. What am I missing?

I run Oblivion on a new gaming laptop, easily powerful enough running Windows 8.1 with an nvidia Geoforce graphics card.

I have installed Oblivion on the D drive rather than the C drive where Windows sits.

Filepath is D:\Program files\BethesdaSoftworks\Oblivion. Game version is latest and patched latest for Oblivion and Shivering Isles. No DLC.

I use OBMM but have no active mods at this time. My thinking was to try it out on a clean vanilla install of Oblivion.

I also have BOSS and TES4Edit (which is what I used to make the NPCs)

The fact that the same process works as you would expect for some species but fails in others is stopping me going forward as a modder. Can anyone help?

[Surilindur]

Have you tried using the Construction Set instead of TES4Edit? Although TES4Edit has the ability to create new records and such, I find it better for cleaning mods or changing only one simple value. Perhaps the Construction Set also changes other values in addition to the one changed by hand (like race) so that also other values fit the new value? I have never really made a new record using TES4Edit, so I do not know how making new records with it works. But I would suggest using the Construction Set (and the Construction Set Extender by shadeMe if you want). The Construction Set can be found here:

 

http://www.elderscrolls.com/oblivion/downloads/

 

Pick the 1.2.404 version of the TES Construction Set, as you said you have the latest version of the game (and I think CSE, if you want to use it, might require the latest version, as well).

 

Hopefully that helps a little.

[Striker879]

Are you putting the NPCs in the same location?

 

If an NPC isn't close to a pathgrid node in the CS they will often appear in an unexpected spot in the game (it's also possible for the game to move then to the "safe cell", which by default is the Tiber Septim Hotel lobby).

[Patrick64]

Thank you both for your advice PhilippePetain and Striker879, I appreciate your time and reply. Unfortunately I get the same problem with the Construction set v 1.2404. No conflicts but the NPC does not exist in the world. I will go through the same process using construction set v 1.2404 and experiment with spacing the NPCs out. I was attempting to space them out along the street leading to the west gate Cheydinhal but it's certainly plausible that my spacing may have been insufficient. My grasp of pathgrid is insufficient so I'm going to do some homework and you have given me something to try and I will experiment with it. I'm happy to be systematic if anyone has further thoughts. I'd like to crack this. My sequence of attemps was;

Argonian - succeeded.

Imperial - Failed

Khaljit - succeeded.

Nord - Failed.

Breton - Failed.

High Elf - Failed.

Thanks again.

[Striker879]

Something else to try is start from a save outside of the city you are placing the NPCs (though by working from a save inside one of those inns should be OK).

 

You aren't using anything that would touch races are you (so in the CS you are just ticking Oblivion.esm and your ESP)?

[Patrick64]

Thank you Stiker879, I will take your advice and try working from a save from outside the city and also experiment with spacing. I am not using anything to do with races at all and there are no active mods. I'm only checking Oblivion and my .esp. I'll experiment with various permutations over the next couple of days. Thanks again for your suggestion.

[Striker879]

Something else that occurs to me ... how are you creating these new NPCs? I'm Mr. Lazy and generally create a new NPC from an existing one (giving them a new formID), in fact I don't think I've ever created one from scratch now that I think on it.

 

Here's a link to the CS Wiki page Basic NPC Creation Tutorial (the last update on the CS Wiki site broke all the links to pictures ... sorry). Have a look to see if anything there jumps out at you.

[Bess]

As a further hint on top of Striker's, you can see all the pictures belonging to the Wiki if you download and use the Official CS Wiki Backup that LHammonds captured and posted before the on-line pictures "went missing". Everything's included -- and it's very handy to have it close at hand on your own computer.

[Guinefort1]

Pardon me, but are you making new NPCs by basing them off of a pre-existing ones and changing the names/IDs? That's what I do. Also, are you basing them off of generic NPCs, like bandits, or on quest-related, unique NPCs? Not using a generic one might cause problems. Hope this is helpful. Best of luck.

[Patrick64]

I'd like to thank Guinefort1, Striker879, Bess and PhillipePetain and anyone else who has given advice.

Striker879 you were right, leaving the city works - but only if I give it a while. I have no idea why this works when the Inn should be a different area.

Apparently there is a "known problem" with the construction set which has to do with the Argonian and Khaljit skeleton (I got this from the forum where a more experienced mod maker was talking about skeletons). Weirdly I was benefiting from this glitch, those species appear immediately in my test run. Other species require me to leave the city and come back in sometime latter.

It was amusing coming back into Cheydinhal after working over a dungeon and seeing a small mob of people named TESTn1-12. I'm still very new at this and appreciate the help.

Thanks again!