Umbra the Unfortunate

[Striker879]

When you successfully pickpocket an item from a sleeping NPC they don't wake up (if you are caught you'll know it because they wake up, and if their responsibility is high enough you'll soon hear the "OK lawbreaker ..." speech). I like the idea that you would need to stay away for a while before seeing Umbra again ... I'd even suggest that you need to not have the sword in your inventory anymore (meaning you've already either traded it for the hat or completed the daedric quest by keeping the sword and then have stored it/sold it). This places the player in the situation of deciding their course of action before attempting to steal the sword.

 

I can understand if Umbra goes back to work for Irroke then it's likely that Shafaye was probably the one who lost a partner (though the two beds in her house are single beds, as are the two in Irroke's). I'm just not clear on why the disposition loss for Schlera and Candice if you have previously had to get them to agree to bringing Umbra back. Unless the change in disposition is to make something easier or harder I don't find it adds much in any situations in the game (merchants are the only NPCs I bother to work disposition with other than to advance Personality after I've leveled up the skills/attributes I find more useful).

 

I would tend to leaving Umbra with her armor and making it so the player can't use companion "cheats" to obtain it (giving her the ability to repair her own armor would be a plus). Even though it's leveled and as such not much of a cheat it still is part of what makes Umbra Umbra in my opinion. The player should be the one to give her a new sword though (so it would need to be a vanilla piece unless you wanted to get real complicated in the scripting ... says the non-scripter).

 

Maybe make the name change something that doesn't happen right away. After she's been back in Pell's Gate for a while she decides to start using her old name.

 

One piece to this is Irroke isn't an armorer, so what was Lenwin apprenticing with him for? If you decided to make him an armorer you'd need to add some forges and anvils etc. outside his shack. Does he then offer services? I can't really think of anything else he could have had her apprenticing for.

 

Hopefully Inafog will pop in and offer some suggestions/opinions on the plan. Other than that I think what you have outlined is shaping up to flow well. I tend to dislike the "run the player around all of Cyrodiil delivering messages" type of quests. This is light on the travelling but heavier on the "hmm, which way will I crack this nut". For the people who don't like to go back and try over if they fail it just leads to the vanilla result (i.e. if you don't raise Umbra's disposition and get caught stealing the sword). For those who don't like to go back and try over you have that element of "am I ready" doubt before they try to steal the sword. For those who don't mind going back to a previous save and try again it's still a challenge to pickpocket the sword, or at least it was for my guy.

[Surilindur]

Interesting... I have never really thought why Irroke had an apprentice. He could indeed be made a blacksmith, selling some simple items. The disposition changes can be removed, yes. They are not necessary. And Umbra can keep her armour, it makes more sense then. I will see if I can make it so that it is automatically repaired, I already have an idea on how to do it. The new sword... hmm... yes, perhaps it could be a vanilla one. Otherwise it would be difficult to choose which sword player would give to Umbra, I think, if the player has a heap of swords in backpack. I need to see what I can do. The name change after some time should be a very easy one.

 

Should anyone have suggestions, I would love to hear them. The base quest seems relatively ready, though, yes. :smile:

 

Edit: Perhaps it was Shafaye's brother or mother... ?

Edited May 11, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[Striker879]

Yes a brother, sister or mother would work (that part is just backstory anyway). If Lenwin was apprenticing as a blacksmith it would also explain how she's able to keep her gear repaired (even during her exile). If Umbra's replacement sword had to come from the player's inventory it adds one more consideration for the player in the quest ... need to make sure I have a decent sword that I'm willing to part with.

 

Kind of obvious I like complicated stuff, eh?

[Surilindur]

Indeed. Should you not, this would not be as interesting. It would be possible to have the option to allow Umbra to take a random sword from the player's inventory, one that is not currently equipped. Or allow her to take the currently equipped sword... now that is a good idea. And it will make it easier to make that feature. So, how would it sound if there were only three options when giving her a sword (when meeting her after she is 'cured', readying for the marauder hunt):

- Allow Umbra to take the player's currently equipped weapon (if it is a one-handed sword)

- Allow Umbra pick a random one-handed sword from player's inventory

- Tell her to wait a bit for the player to find one (kind of 'cancel' button if not ready)

 

I will start making the mod tomorrow evening if I have time. It should not take forever to make it, being relatively simple, so I hope it will be ready by the end of June, at least. Hopefully by the end of this month. Unless, of course, a certain individual manages to conjure a bunch the most complicated of features from the depths of Oblivion using some dark magic known only to himself... we shall see. :)

[Striker879]

LOL ... I have no skills as a conjurer so you must know that certain individual quite well.

 

If possible make the "pick a random" option be "pick the best one handed sword that isn't currently equipped" (I would think the damage rating for the sword would work well there). Those three options would allow the player to either select exactly which sword Umbra receives or to reserve a certain sword from those she might get. Better than the Bruma statue thing where you need to make sure you only have what you want the statue to wear when you meet Martin ... a big pain in the butt if you don't plan ahead.

 

Can't promise I'll still be available for testing after around the end of the month or so (weather dictates when I head up north, and once there I don't have a gaming computer).

[Inafog]

I'm glad to see that my post has generated interest! I wonder if, rather than giving up her armor and becoming an apprentice blacksmith again, Umbra, who is now an experienced fighter, wouldn't be more likely, as a token of her remorse and wish to do good to make up for the evil she has done, to become a Knight of the Nine or a member of the Imperial Guard or a Forester, or a member of the Fighters Guild.

[Surilindur]

It should be possible to make her pick an unequipped sword that has the highest damage rating. Thank you for the idea.

 

Hmm... you do not possess great skills in Conjuration? Apologies. I was just wondering where all the ideas come from. Not that I would be interested in stealing your secret source, though... and even if I were, I would not tell it to you. :)

 

I said the end of the month because I do not know how long it takes to make it before I have made it. Now that I have a clear plan and plenty of ideas on how to make it happen, it should not take too long. And I always test my mods before releasing them, so I will also play it through myself a couple of times before releasing it. But your constructive criticism is certainly welcome when the first version is ready. And there is the long, cold and snowy winter after summer to spend on mod thingies, after all.

 

Inafog... Hmm... Would it not feel odd if she ran off to join a group of 'holy' knights? Or the Fighters Guild? Or even the Legion? Perhaps she could stay at Pell's Gate, to protect the village from dangers, like the marauders at Fort Homestead (they will respawn, after all). Maybe she could visit a shrine to the Divines every now and then and patrol the surroundings of Pell's Gate and Fort Homestead... ? She would, of course, be willing to follow player around, killing the bad people of Cyrodiil.

 

Should there be a condition for following the player? Something like infamy less than 10? Would that make any sense?

[Striker879]

If I could conjure anything beyond the most basic scripts perhaps I would keep the ideas that seethe so close to the surface of my brain closer to my chest, but I'm a realist and I know that those ideas would just sit there bubbling and doing nothing without a skill set beyond my own. I recall reading a quote that went something like "The ability to execute is the only thing that has value ... ideas are a dime a dozen". If I can contribute an idea someone like you can give it value.

 

There is a wayshrine to Dibella not far from Vindasel, but I think Umbra would be reluctant to walk past her old prison, at least without a supporter along. She could go to the wayshrine to Tiber Septim past the Inn of Ill Omen or the wayshrine to Zenithar right close to the Faregyl Inn. I could make a case for any of those wayshrine's blessing being something that Umbra/Lenwin would desire, luck at Zenithar, strength at Tiber Septim and personality at Dibella. What about a percent chance of either Zenithar or Tiber Septim say once a month and if she's with the player and going past the Dibella wayshrine near Vindasel she stops for the blessing?

 

I personally like the infamy less than 10 idea but it would limit your target audience for the mod. People who have Knights of the Nine have a way to clear infamy but those without the KotN DLC have no way to reduce their infamy. Perhaps a fame greater than infamy by 10 would be a more universal method. That allows people to still do the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild quests without excluding themselves from your mod (at least the Umbra as a follower aspect). It would mean they'd need to be a "good guy" as well as a bad guy however (and I'm certain there will be some who abhor that notion).

[Surilindur]

There will be an ini file included, as I will make a lightweight maintenance quest for the mod, to handle the item repairs. So I can make the fame minus infamy greater than 10 an optional feature. That idea of visiting those wayshrines is great. Thank you. I will see what I can do. I made the armour non-playable before Umbra dies, so it should not be possible to use it before that.

 

Ngh. Making dialogue is so very frustrating... I like scripting more. Yet the whole mod is built around interaction. Argh. But they do say doing something is the best way to learn it.

 

Also, thank you for the compliment. I have read something about ideas being 'dime a dozen', too. Perhaps it was a post about old school modding wisdom at TES Alliance? It was obviously not the same place, though, as I only remember the idea part of that. Anyway, even if ideas were dime a dozen, it might not necessarily mean they are not worth making (trying to say ideas can also have value as ideas, and not only when realised, like expectations regarding a company can affect the prices of its shares, even if the expectations never became true). I, too, have a heap of ideas. Some of them have turned into projects, too, but only the ones I know how to make. It is just that I am drowning in ideas. I really need to wait until this project and my castle mod are ready before starting new projects. There are only so many hours in a day... at least for now. I would describe myself as a controversial realist - some sort of an optimistic realist with a hint of pessimism, idealism and perfectionism, as well as a little difficulty when it comes to social interactions... if it makes any sense.

Edited May 12, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[Striker879]

So are you saying you're my smarter twin? LOL

 

Is the "ugh" about implementing the dialogue or is it about creating the actual text of the dialogue (i.e. what is actually said)? If it's the later and you want some help I can see what I can do.