Persistent World

[Arnhem]

I've had this idea for quite some time now. It's about time I write it down somewhere.

 

Oblivion is a great game because of the modding community. When I play a role playing game I scetch myself a character before I start playing. During the game I try to form my character to that design I have in my head. Oblivion is a game where your character isnt limited in any way. You can become a grand master in every skill available. The so called Jack of all trades character. This has never been my play style. I always stick with certain roles.

 

Over the years I been on the lookout for mods that go along with that picture in my head. But the idea I have now I never seen come out as a mod.

 

I would like all my characters to start in the same world.

 

But with that thought come a lot of other ideas and problems. I'm not even sure if its at all possible to do anything like that. Having the game load the world map from another save file instead of creating the default new world.

 

some thoughts

- completing a quest can only be done once.

- guilds are only looking for 1 character. if I join the fighters guilds with my warrior. my thief would find the fighters guild no longer accepting new recruits.

- it would be wonderful if after logging off my character would become an NPC in the world. So perhaps with the help of other mods I could team up with them.

- items would be sharable so I could share quest rewards with another character

- first character starts in the prison cell and is burdened with the main quest. all characters after that wouldn't have to start out in the prison cell.

 

It's not just the loading of the world from another save. It also has to be updated while switching characters. So the way the game saves would probably need to be altered as well. Or a way to check which of the characters was last played with and load the world from that save file.

 

IF this idea is at all possible, then perhaps someday it finds it way to the already amazing mods available for this game.

 

 

Arnhem

[InuyashaFE]

I'm in support of this mod, it would be nice.

[buddhapelle]

that my friend,would be totally awsome.

[Arnhem]

thanks

 

Could anyone with a better insight of whats possible reply in here if this is actually doable?

just please be sure about yes or no.

[coreypikes]

I believe that it's impossible. One could create a NPC based off your previous characters, but to do a single persistent world, I just don't think it feasible. Fantastic idea though.

[chakaru11]

As awesome as it sounds, I doubt this is possible. What you describe here is pretty much an online game. Offline games can not rely on server memory like online games.

 

 

The savegames of different characters do not share data, they are not connected in any way, it's how the game engine of offline games works.What you want would require the game to constantly update existing saves and have access to inactive data, which yeah, isn't really possible for offline games. This would bloat all saves totally out of proportion, since ALL the necessary data would have to be saved on your computer, as opposed to online games, where this immense amount of data is stored server side.

[Arnhem]

It's not multiplayer, there are never 2 characters playing at once. There is no server data.

 

Can you make the game check all savegames for information when you try to load up a savegame or start a new game?

That question will have to answered with a yes first.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Arnhem

[chakaru11]

Actually, the answer to that would always be no, because Oblivion doesn't work like that. I am not bashing your idea or anything. But you wanted an answer.

 

I never said anything about multiplayer. But what you want is shared memory data for all savegames, so that every savegame is updated whenever you change something in ONE savegame. Like joining a guild and switching the status of the guild to "full" for all other savegames/characters. A persistent world like that would need shared memory and that is exactely what server memory does. The only game I ever had which was able to do this was Phantasy Star Online in Offline mode (I never had a modem for my Dreamcast console back then). In that game, up to 4 characters which were on the same memory card shared the same bank account and had access to all items in it. But that doesn't really count, because yeah, PSO was an online game in the end and console saves work a lot different than PC saves.

 

Usually an offline PC game loads exactely the information needed for ONE savegame and nothing else.

 

Oblivion savegames in particular only save the data connected to the character, not the game world. Everything, from the race to the level to the quest status, all that is character data. What you want would require a savegame to store the entire Oblivion esm in every single savegame so that the changes in the persistent world are stored. And then it would need to update this esm in every other savegame too to make it stick.

 

Have you ever looked at the Oblivion esm? That thing is huge. Now compare it to the size of your average Oblivion sagevame ess.

Edited January 22, 2011 by chakaru11

[Pronam]

It's quite possible.it's just a hell load of work. Mods can store and check data via OBSE/Pluggy into text/.ini files. It'll simply change a variable that'll prevent the player from using it. You're quite right about the share between saves though, that's impossible.

 

-Items/quest awards:

You'd have to put in the check for items being obtained and make it possible to get them from a place rather than a 'share' possibility as that's not possible.

-NPC in the world

That's unlikely to work out well and would be limited to equipment. And another thing...what if you kill it?

-Not starting in prison/ other quest conflicting + Literal savegame data:

That means you'd have to implement an alternate start mod + the fact you'd have to add variables to check or change EVERY quest. You won't see weapons/alteration/mod-changes/character positions at exactly the same spot and it's highly possible there'll be a load of conflicts if you change things manually instead of quests running their course. As there are characters/interest around placed for a quest that suddenly has to disappear. And this wouldn't work for the dozens of mods that add things to world.

 

Possible?...yes..Realistic? Not really. It'd take months and months to make just a part of this and it'd still have a lot of conflicts + much more lag for the game as you've got to reference people that didn't had to be. (for example. Removing enemies involved in a quest that weren't persistent) The idea is nice but the execution will not be that 'nice' and would only offer fun and not a reward for the work involved.

[Arnhem]

Chakaru11, I very much appreciate your input. Thanks.

 

It might be that I'm not understanding it correctly. But I dont think updating multiple savegames is needed when I change something in 1 of them if its possible to read data from another savegame when you load up a savegame. If character 1 joined the fighters guild and I'm loading up character 2, it would have checked savegame nr1 and seen the fighers guild quest line is already in progress right at the beginning of my game session with character 2. Box is ticked and fighters guild wont even talk to me about joining and the quest to help out with rats in Anvil is never given to me.

 

I dont understand what you're saying about world data being saved in the oblivion esm. I can already have 2 different characters with 2 totally different worlds. Those 2 worlds are both saved in the oblivion.esm? if thats so... isnt that even better? then you can read data from there. I must be missing something here. Could you share a bit more info about this?

The way I see it its making it look like a persistant world by updating the world after loading up a game from other savegames. I dont see the need of updating savegame nr2 when I stop playing with savegame nr1. Because when I load up savegame nr2 after it, I'll be updated by looking into savegame nr1 while loading up. I'm never changing quest information or character information of another of my characters while playing.

 

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Pronam, thanks for your thoughts. appreciate it.

 

About the items, yes. thats the way I see it as well. With sharing I meant being able to store/drop them somewhere and another character would be able to pick it up without it being marked as stolen.

Npc's. That would be world data right? So that would be stored in the oblivion.esm according to Chakaru and be loaded up at the startup of a savefile/new game. I dont see the problem of a NPC being killed. That information is saved.... and loaded up for another character at startup. Maybe I'm blind again for the problem. Just quest NPC's another character is using would need some protection against permanent death. But I think the game already does that.

Starting outside prison with your 2nd character is not realy important. Its fine if it lets you start in the prison cell. As the world would have been loaded up from your first character and the way out is already cleared. I just mentioned it as its a bit silly to start your game like that.

 

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Saving your game would be the same as before. It's the loading up and starting a new game where the game has to look into savegames and the oblivion.esm.