Who are the real terrorists?

[marharth]

The war is adding to our debt, people need to decide whats more important...

 

We should withdraw until we can get our debt under control, then if we still want to save the world we can.

 

We are not in a good economic place for a war right now.

Social Security is adding to our debt. We need to cancel it too.

Oh, and Welfare, that's adding to our debt. Better scratch it.

And the Post Office, nothing but deficit there, shut 'er down.

 

Yeah, compared to most of that stuff, war's cheap. And I'd much rather feel safe knowing we're fighting them over there so they don't have to fight them here than knowing I'll get social security when I retire.... assuming there's anything left by then.

Social Security has a surplus, it is not adding to our debt at all, its helping the country more then anything...

 

Welfare also helps the country.

 

The post office isn't adding to our debt since it makes profit from what it does.

 

Most of our deficit comes from our defense budget, no idea how you can think the war is cheap...

[marharth]

Social Security has a surplus, it is not adding to our debt at all, its helping the country more then anything...

Welfare also helps the country.

The post office isn't adding to our debt since it makes profit from what it does.

Most of our deficit comes from our defense budget, no idea how you can think the war is cheap...

 

Where on earth do you get your facts from? The Sunday funnies? It would be nice if your argument was supported by facts instead of supposition.

The Postal administration is hemorrhaging money yearly and needs to close 3000 local unprofitable locations.

 

The Social Security Administration requires episodic infusions of cash to stay afloat, the beneficiaries will soon be drawing more than the paying members put in to it (thats you by the way).

 

Welfare helps the country? In what financial dimension is that? It's called an entitlement program, meaning we pay for their benefits, no taxes paid at all for money received by the beneficiaries.

 

The only fact you got even minor league right is the Defense Budget.

 

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/Aurielius/chart.gif

 

 

Just as an aside to the relevant posters, sorry for taking the thread sideways but some peoples egregious misstatements cry out for correction.

Welfare helps people get jobs and put money into the economy, that's common sense on how that would help.

 

Not sure if you noticed but the economy has to do with more then just spending and taxes.

 

About social security, do you think 30 years is soon? It won't run out WITH THE CURRENT amount it has in the system until about 30 years into the future, social security will not be a issue.

 

The postal administration runs like a corporation. There is no way it would add to the budget. If it closes offices then fine, but how do you think that would add to the budget?

[Aurielius]

Welfare helps people get jobs and put money into the economy, that's common sense on how that would help.

Not sure if you noticed but the economy has to do with more then just spending and taxes.

About social security, do you think 30 years is soon? It won't run out WITH THE CURRENT amount it has in the system until about 30 years into the future, social security will not be a issue.

The postal administration runs like a corporation. There is no way it would add to the budget. If it closes offices then fine, but how do you think that would add to the budget?

 

 

I would dearly love to debate this on it's own thread, but you did start this discussion about Terrorism. Any time, any place, any where you like but come prepared with facts because that is what I will be bringing , not wistful ideology. No quarter asked or given, the gauntlet has been thrown down.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Aurielius

[HappyHerring]

In an attempt to pull this back from U.S. domestic economic policy may I suggest an obvious example of a distiction between terrorism or liberation?

 

Are the WW 2 Germans terrorists for imposing a structure of terrorism onthe territories they conquered in Europe and Africa not just through the obvious means of Gestapo and Death Camps but also through the use of massive reprisals against any partisan activity againnst them:

 

Are the allies of the same war terrorists due to using superiority of the air to destroy the hearts of the the cities of above nation?

 

We may argue about fine points and gradations but from my reading of this topic this is the issue: Who is terrorist and who is liberator?

[marharth]

In an attempt to pull this back from U.S. domestic economic policy may I suggest an obvious example of a distiction between terrorism or liberation?

 

Are the WW 2 Germans terrorists for imposing a structure of terrorism onthe territories they conquered in Europe and Africa not just through the obvious means of Gestapo and Death Camps but also through the use of massive reprisals against any partisan activity againnst them:

 

Are the allies of the same war terrorists due to using superiority of the air to destroy the hearts of the the cities of above nation?

 

We may argue about fine points and gradations but from my reading of this topic this is the issue: Who is terrorist and who is liberator?

What if you liberate someone who doesn't want to be liberated?

[HappyHerring]

In this particular instance several hundred million people.

 

If the liberation had failed then many miilions of people less because they WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AROUND TO VOICE OPINIONS! Please forgive my shouting.

 

Spend a few hours reading and you will see that even in comparison to Soviet Russia, China under Mao, Cambodia or today North Korea it is not argueable that the nazi regime was inherently evil and anti-human.

 

I'd like to see you make a point which would stretch me, so far I have seen none. I await.

[IceMastaP]

I would like to make a topic about our modern day enemy, terrorists. We chase after them no matter what, we take away personal freedom and rights to "protect" against them.

 

I am going to try to make this short, hopefully the discussion can expand on itself.

 

...

 

That being said, I am calling every single person who supports the war right now a terrorist. Just because your on the side of the "good guys" doesn't mean you really are a good guy. I am not saying the other terrorist groups are not bad, but the USA is the biggest terrorist group in the world now.

 

 

Discuss?

 

Don't forget the poppy fields in Afghanistan. They supply a good 2/3's of the worlds opiates and derivatives. Before the invasion, the Taliban was making some bank. After the invasion, the US was back in control and subsequently, making some bank.

 

But in regards to the terrorism topic: The united states IS inciting terror into it's people more so than any terrorist from Al Qaeda ever did. Just look at 9/11 while you are at it. When I wake up in the morning, I am far more concerned of my government and my fellow people than I am some terrorist scapegoat. In fact, right now I wish I had an AK-47 so I could defend myself against anyone that comes to my door, be it a terrorist from D.C. or a terrorist from Iraq.

 

Terrorism is simply the new term for government control. Everything done in the name of terrorism has only served to remove your freedoms... and they ain't coming back easy! Now YOU have to get a gun and fight to get them back. Sounds like something a terrorist would do, right??

 

Ironic.

[marharth]

I would like to make a topic about our modern day enemy, terrorists. We chase after them no matter what, we take away personal freedom and rights to "protect" against them.

 

I am going to try to make this short, hopefully the discussion can expand on itself.

 

...

 

That being said, I am calling every single person who supports the war right now a terrorist. Just because your on the side of the "good guys" doesn't mean you really are a good guy. I am not saying the other terrorist groups are not bad, but the USA is the biggest terrorist group in the world now.

 

 

Discuss?

 

Don't forget the poppy fields in Afghanistan. They supply a good 2/3's of the worlds opiates and derivatives. Before the invasion, the Taliban was making some bank. After the invasion, the US was back in control and subsequently, making some bank.

 

But in regards to the terrorism topic: The united states IS inciting terror into it's people more so than any terrorist from Al Qaeda ever did. Just look at 9/11 while you are at it. When I wake up in the morning, I am far more concerned of my government and my fellow people than I am some terrorist scapegoat. In fact, right now I wish I had an AK-47 so I could defend myself against anyone that comes to my door, be it a terrorist from D.C. or a terrorist from Iraq.

 

Terrorism is simply the new term for government control. Everything done in the name of terrorism has only served to remove your freedoms... and they ain't coming back easy! Now YOU have to get a gun and fight to get them back. Sounds like something a terrorist would do, right??

 

Ironic.

That's exactly what I made the topic for, think you are the first person to get what I was saying.

[RZ1029]

I'll drop back by just to say this:

 

You're blowing things out of proportion there.

 

IF the US is profiting from control of poppy fields, cool stuff. I really don't mind.

If you're so concerned about your rights being taken away, buy a gun. Buy 20 of them, whatever you want to do.

I've not lost any freedoms. I don't know what you're talking about. I can still:

1) Practice my religion, say what I want to say, write what I want to write, and gather with my peers on non-private property as I wish.

2) I can, and do, still own my several guns.

3) I'm not housing any soldiers, except my cousin on occasion, but I invite him over.

4) Never been searched or had property seized illegally.

5) Due process... hmm... never been arrested, I'll just skip that one. Any ex-cons can chime in here.

6) Trial... again, not my area of expertise.

7) Aaaaand again, not my area.

8 ) I don't really define excessive bail, and I think $5mil is more than reasonable for just about anyone, and sometimes more, if they can afford it.

9) Hmm... I've not ever had any sort of rights violated that weren't expressly mentioned in the Constitution that I didn't think was right. Yes, even all that stuff with the TSA. I fly pretty regularly.

10) I don't recall the states being denied any rights lately.

Edited February 23, 2011 by RZ1029

[marharth]

I'll drop back by just to say this:

 

You're blowing things out of proportion there.

 

IF the US is profiting from control of poppy fields, cool stuff. I really don't mind.

If you're so concerned about your rights being taken away, buy a gun. Buy 20 of them, whatever you want to do.

I've not lost any freedoms. I don't know what you're talking about. I can still:

1) Practice my religion, say what I want to say, write what I want to write, and gather with my peers on non-private property as I wish.

2) I can, and do, still own my several guns.

3) I'm not housing any soldiers, except my cousin on occasion, but I invite him over.

4) Never been searched or had property seized illegally.

5) Due process... hmm... never been arrested, I'll just skip that one. Any ex-cons can chime in here.

6) Trial... again, not my area of expertise.

7) Aaaaand again, not my area.

8 ) I don't really define excessive bail, and I think $5mil is more than reasonable for just about anyone, and sometimes more, if they can afford it.

9) Hmm... I've not ever had any sort of rights violated that weren't expressly mentioned in the Constitution that I didn't think was right. Yes, even all that stuff with the TSA. I fly pretty regularly.

10) I don't recall the states being denied any rights lately.

1. Try being a Muslim now days, half the country will hate you due to fear propaganda.

2. Ok you own a gun, so what?

3. I see your looking over the consutuion, ill refer to that later.

4. Illegal wire tapping, airport security, arresting people without a trial and seizing their properties.

5. Same as above, people might get arrested without trial if charged with terrorism.

6. Above^

7. Same as 5.

8. You may not even get a chance for bail, and cruel punishment is defiantly happening and being allowed by the US. Take torture for example.

9. If your OK with the TSA grouping you then I suppose this one is fine for the most part.

10. OK

 

Lets see, states are trying to outlaw certain Muslim law, and Muslims are hated by a lot of the country. The USA is trying to capture Journalists. #1 is down.

 

Owning a gun doesn't matter at this point. I would like to see you try to take out a tank or fighter jet with a rifle.

 

I am sure that soldiers are being housed illegally in other countries. It doesn't say a house in the US, it just says a house meaning it could be any country.

 

I pretty much summed up #4.

 

5-8 are destroyed by locking people up without any trial or chance of getting out.

 

9 could be debated more.

 

I would say 10 is fine.

 

So lets count... 7 out of 10 of the first 10 amendments (The Bill of Rights) have been violated. You get to keep your gun and states still have their rights.