Nadimos Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Yes and who are those nations financed by? Where do they get their fancy party equipment from? That was the point anyway. Edited January 31, 2011 by Nadimos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpellAndShield Posted January 31, 2011 Author Share Posted January 31, 2011 There seems to be a debate over the morality of the CIA, which is an amusing concept since it is not by it's very nature supposed to be an altruistic organization. It's purpose and primary function is to collect intelligence outside the national boundaries of the Untied States, being that the CIA is the child of the OSS whose mandate to act in the strategic interests of the United States by fair means or foul. The agency was never meant to be a place where Mother Theresa would be at home. Covert agencies are no more benevolent than military organizations but both are designed to implement national strategic and tactical goals.So the only criterion that they can be judged on , is whether it accomplished that aim. The world is just not a nice sandbox filled with polite children, it is an exceedingly dangerous place with some seriously dangerous nations and people out there. Allende was definitely a dangerous man to the coporations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bben46 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The topic here is the CIA and whether you think helps or harms the USA. The topic is NOT the evils of capitalism, communism or any other ism. Stay on topic or I will remove your posts. The CIA has only existed since 1947 so ANY references from before that are not relevant to this topic. Bben46, Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadimos Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Harry S. Truman, quotes about CIA: I never would have agreed to the formulation of the Central Intelligence Agency back in forty-seven, if I had known it would become the American Gestapo. I am not gonna come to a forum anymore, where people, who advocate torture are not banned. And that anything before 1947 would not be relevant to the topic is totally false and untrue, if you want to uncover history with facts here. Im out as it is kinda silly to watch. Edited January 31, 2011 by Nadimos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The topic here is the CIA and whether you think helps or harms the USA. The topic is NOT the evils of capitalism, communism or any other ism. Stay on topic or I will remove your posts. The CIA has only existed since 1947 so ANY references from before that are not relevant to this topic. Bben46, Moderator Ok then The CIA funded ,trained and equipped Osama Bin Laden's Al Queda and we know what they did .So obviously the CIA harms the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Allende was definitely a dangerous man to the coporations. @Stardusk I agree that the overthrow of Allende was morally wrong but morality was not part of the original premise of the thread. It is "Does the CIA help or hurt the United Sates?" No where in the original premise is there a query about the morality of the CIA. The only way to introduce that argument would be to correlate the public relations disaster that is consequential to an amoral act and how that hurts the prestige of the United States. @NadimosOh, and BTW no where in this entire thread have I seen a single word typed in favor of torture, read what is written not what you infer. Calling for bans is deemed forum vigilantism by forum rules as I understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardOfAtlantis Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I don't see anyone publicly supporting torture here. The question wasn't "Is the CIA filled with choir boys and knight-errants" but "Do they help or harm the USA". I think the answer to the first imaginary question would be much more unanimous. It's the ambiguity of the second that puts people on slippery perceptual ground, and that is in my opinion the beauty of this thread. It was a good question, with just enough blurring of black and white to get people to discuss the issue--good job, Stardusk. I have a hard time answering it, even having something of an ability to shift between perceptual paradigms. I'm still probably seen on this thread as being part of the group of hard-liners like Aurelius (correct me if I'm wrong somehow) who not only see the pragmatic utility of the CIA but also the necessity in our day and age. Now, whether I/we/anybody else support(s) the CIA's existence or not, it doesn't imply in a black-and-white categorical way my/our support for all of said organization's actions. All of said actions would have to be judged on an individual basis, with all extenuating factors involved taken into consideration. There could be no blanket judgements and still remain valid, in my eyes. Example. Robber breaks into private residence, wife home alone shoots robber dead.Perceptual Result: Murder or justified self-defence? I think the CIA is akin to that example...in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This might sound bad but I might of changed my mind about this... In the long run, the CIA killing people that are not in the USA doesn't hurt us at all if no one finds out. There are situations where the CIA might of hurt us, but killing people not friendly with the USA doesn't hurt us, as bad as that sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanumoreira Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This might sound bad but I might of changed my mind about this... In the long run, the CIA killing people that are not in the USA doesn't hurt us at all if no one finds out. There are situations where the CIA might of hurt us, but killing people not friendly with the USA doesn't hurt us, as bad as that sounds. That still doesn't make it right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 This might sound bad but I might of changed my mind about this... In the long run, the CIA killing people that are not in the USA doesn't hurt us at all if no one finds out.There are situations where the CIA might of hurt us, but killing people not friendly with the USA doesn't hurt us, as bad as that sounds.This might surprise you since it would seem that I support the CIA, but just because it might be necessary, remain undiscovered and be in the national interest that does not make it moral in my universe. It is just that on a pragmatic level I understand the necessity for sometimes committing a morally repugnant act for the sake of the greater good. Of course there is the problem of deciding when to put such actions into play and is the greater good really served by it? Fortunately those decisions are not my purview and hence not on my personal conscience but I would not want to be the individual that must make those calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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