Anything out there about unarmed combat?

[AltreU]

I don't think that anyone previously said that they wanted Hollywood styled fights, anyway. If they did, he took it too far.

 

As realistic as they want to make it, they can still make hand to hand have its own usable class (yes, I'm aware that they took out the "make your own class" part of the game). You still play the archetype of various classes. Simply being able to punch (and maybe toss out a few combo stikes-right straight, left hook, right low jab, right uppercut) would suffice as far as animations go. The flourish kills could be anything from a quick palm to the chest to the breaking of a neck.

 

We have mods now that pretty much do the same thing, so it shouldn't be that difficult for them to do it.

[keastkannegaard]

The most used "moves" used in fighting, arena or in street fights are punch to the head, kick to the groin and low kick. those 3 "moves" will win you 99% of all fights. Thats 3 animations. Kick to the groin wont work if the person got heavy plate armor on, but a kick to the knee joint will make him lose balance, just like it will if you kick a person unarmored. If you do it right, he wont be able to move as his knee will be destroyed.

That leaves two attacks for us to use, punch in the face and low kick. Shouldn't be that hard to make animations for or implement into the game. Disarming a person could be a combo of block and moving into the person. Or just make it chance based like in Oblivion.

But non of those attacks are flashy kung fu techniques, chi base or in any other way "fantasy". Its very simple moves that can be done by almost everyone, and works on almost everyone.

[AltreU]

The Bethsoft forums have the right idea about hand-to-hand, it just took a while for the monks to come out of the woods. Read this thread: http://forums.bethso...en-chopped-off/

 

The later posts (pages 3-4) will hopefully open the eyes of nay sayers.

You can beat someone to death with your fists just as you can stab someone with a blade. Just like a blade, the more you train with your fists, the better you get with 'em.

 

They mentioned bare knuckle-boxing and the fact that it's illegal. Think concussive force being rapidly applied to someones head. Even a dragon can be knocked silly by concussive force (of course not by a low level h2h user).

Edited February 4, 2011 by AltreU

[Fatalmasterpiece]

The first few posts in the link give me hope there is still a semblance of intelligence left in video game fans.

 

Monks have no place in a western fantasy setting. They were only added to DnD to please the Bruce Lee fan club.

 

There are no shao Lin monks or kung fu in Middle Earth or Narnia. There are no ninjas or katanas either. But there are dragons and talking animals and armored knights. That's what fantasy is about to me and what I enjoy about TES despite that Bethesda has put in some eastern stuff like katanas and samurai elves. (wtf Beth, wtf)

Edited February 5, 2011 by Fatalmasterpiece

[Kaskas]

I also dont like monks in the D&D style, but there are many ways to aproach hand to hand, what i would love is it being an stealth oriented combat skill or support oriented combat skill, maybe both. As an stealth skill it could be used to take down guards by knocking them down (or breaking their necks if you want them dead), granting a less lethal option to the dagger as the only stealth close combat weapon. As a dagger, using it against an aware opponent with a longer weapon would be a not so good idea, but if the PC is fast and plays his cards well h could win.

 

Also, one of the dragon shout could be the DRAGON PUNCH!!! :P

[Fatalmasterpiece]

I agree Kaskas that sounds pretty cool. I know people have made a lot of arguments about grappling/wrestling stuff but there really isn't any room for it without completely reworking the combat system. Can you imagine Todd bursting in the room "stop that work on the magic system! We need to add headlocks!"

 

You put it very well, "support oriented combat skill". It should exist as a tertiary ability.

[AltreU]

Ummm..... what? You may want to check your sources...... http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:The_Blades and http://oblivion.wikia.com/wiki/Akavir, also Gaiden Shinji.....http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:People_G#Gaiden_Shinji, then there are the Indian styled factions (Indian monks exist too, with their own martial arts....people actually think that most other Asian countries learned a lot from them originally) http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Bloodmoon:East_Empire_Company, then there's this group http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morag_Tong, which sounds to have Asian influences in both practice and name, then there's http://www.thenexusforums.com/index.php?/topic/46875-elder-scrolls-5/, where it says,

All those Asian influences in Morrowind and Oblivion? Those are akaviri, mostly from the Tsaesci (snake-people - its been so long since they were seen by anyone scholars can't figure out if they actually looked like snakes or just described as snakes in metaphor very often.) Katanas and all those good things, and Cloud Ruler Temple as I believe they point out in the main quest, all come from them.

.....

I could go on with that, but I hope you got the point. It doesn't matter where it takes place. You start the game as a prisoner that, for all we know, could've been from just a little bit East of Cyrodil. It's an RPG. You know, Role-Playing-Game....

Martial arts aren't kung fu. They aren't ninja tactics. I was just showing my younger cousin the show Human Weapon and I'm proud to know that in an non-sanctioned fight that a man can violently punch another guys head into the ground. Dungeons & Dragons was an amalgamation of different things in Gary Gygaxs imagination, yes influenced by LOTR, but it went way further. There are probably many Asian oriented parts to various series that you may have overlooked.

Get the Mount & Blade stuff out of your head, that was supposed to be a game based in our Medieval world from what I've seen.

I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to give you facts.

[keastkannegaard]

Fatal, you really dont know anything about martial art, especially european arts like boxing, wrestling, pankration (greek), glima (scandinavian), systema (russian) and other styles i cant remember from the top of my head. Apart from pankration, that was outlawed by the pope, but "survived" by being the foundation of Chinese martial art, all of those arts have survived to this day in some form. Pankration, boxing and wrestling can be dated back to before 600 BC. Glima goes back to when the Scandinavians found Vinland (Newfoundland today) around year 1000.

So no unarmed fighting arnt something the asians invented. It fits perfectly into a Scandinavian setting as Skyrim. Would be awesome if they had a minigame/arena for Glima fights. Would fit Skyrim.

Really think you should look into European fighting styles, as they are just as lethal as the asian styles, but without all the "chi magic" stuff.

[Kaskas]

Fatal, It doesnt need that much work, headlocks and wrestle (not WWE style xDDDD) movements would fit in Skyrim, but a stealth oriented hand to hand could be done without headlocks and stuff, it could even e moded in without much work, Todd said that dagger now have a 10x damage mod on stealth mode, just add a similar mod to hand to hand on non lethal or fatige damage, in the perks part they could add some perks for that also. And no, i dont think Todd has to take people from the magic oriented skills, i like the not so sillent takedowns that happen when you drop few fireballs and lightning bolts on the enemy.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

I love how people keep trying to convince me like I am one of the developers or something. Should start a fanclub called, change my mind get a cookie!

 

Keast, I'm aware of all that stuff. What does that have to do with the discussion? I said I hope we don't see kung fu and wrestling would take too much work. Pretty sure I never said, Europe doesn't have martial arts RAAwwRRrRr!!!11!!

 

Kaskas, of course it could be done and like I said I agreed with you, but going into grecoroman wrestling or Glima or whatever the hell people want to bring up would take a ton of work. It would be great to see a stealth take down, but I don't think people realize what adding in grappling would take. Maybe I am wrong and they have plenty of time to add it, cool beans, I would also like to see tree climbing, light dousing (ala thief), digging, and many other realistic things added to the game, but given the amount of work they would take I would be happy to just see LOD finished and quest glitched worked out.

 

Altreu you crack me up. It's like I say I don't like Asian food and suddenly you try to show me all the Asian ingredients in the food I eat every day or something. Guess what, when I started playing DnD in 2nd ed, I banned all monks from being in my game, as well as psionicists, that was probably 12 years ago, haven't allowed them to this day. Same stupid stuff happens in every game, like when they added the Tau to 40k to make the mecha kids happy, or when MTG had their Kamagowa block. So my pizza might have a bean sprout in it once in awhile. That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

 

I really don't hate Asian stuff. I'm a huge Akira Kurosawa fan, have studied extensively in Tae Kwon Do and Tang Soo Do... I just hate when I am watching a movie like Dragon Heart 2 and all the sudden monks start showing up doing Kung Fu and I'm left thinking wtf just happened?

 

Btw, all three of you can now have a cookie but you gotta share.

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