Powder Gangers

[MrPudding]

I have yet to do any quests for the Powder Gangers at the NCR Correctional Facility. The reason is because I don't see no reason for ANY kind of character wanting to.

 

If you're for the NCR, you obviously are against them because they're escaped convicts. Powder Gangers are also said to harass Legionary raiding parties from time to time, thus making them an enemy if you're siding with the Legion. Mr. House would consider them a minor nuisance, but an enemy none the less if you sided with him. If you're seeking to rule New Vegas yourself, your interests would clash with the Powder Ganger's desire to rule their territory.

 

The only way I can see you working with them is if you were a mercenary that was only interested in the caps. But even then, Joe Cobb doesn't offer you any caps in order to kill Ringo and help take over Goodsprings, so the incentive isn't even there at the beginning to put your life on the line for them.

Edited February 4, 2011 by MrPudding

[Greymane]

From a gameplay perspective, there is no particular downside to helping the Powder Gangers at NCRCF out. No more than there is for helping the people at Goodsprings out (which is to say 'Help one, the other doesn't like you'). Doing the NCRCF missions doesn't make any other faction angry with you. Even if you help the Powder Gangers repulse a raid (which is easier said than done, since NCR troopers can cut through Powder Gangers laughably fast), the NCR doesn't get mad at you. They've got a shop you can trade at and kind of a doctor, so you don't miss out on any services you might get from Goodsprings.

 

From a roleplaying standpoint, I can't say I see them all that compelling or interesting to help either. Even my evil characters would be hard pressed to find anything worthwhile about them. They're petty criminals who just happened to luck out in catching the NCR at the worst possible time. They've got no ambitions, no goals, few resources; they just want to sit at NCRCF and raid caravans that aren't even coming through the area anymore. There is no culture or history, like with the Great Khans. They're basically the Fiends, only with a better dress code and not enough sense to target and area where people actually go.

 

No matter who wins, I'd wager that in less than a year they'd be reduced to a status more pathetic than even the Jackals.

 

The Vault 19 Powder Gangers are far more interesting, but they're also Powder Gangers in name only, since they share absolutely no traits with the others beyond having started out prisoners and enjoying dynamite.

[minngarm]

Well when you find cook and the other powder gangers in the vault, depending on which of the two leaders you side with, they do want to join up with the great khans. So theres a bit of a attachment there RPwise.

[Nohbodey]

I think you could pretty easily justify siding with the Powder Gangers as a symbol of the people that have been severely damaged by the NCR's greed. Here you've got petty criminals who've been forced to do slave labor for the NCR and now are getting back at them for it. Granted, I don't think any serious moral person could support them, but there's at least a reason to pity them and to favor them at least in terms of being against the NCR. About the effect it would have on Caesar's Legion, I think that you might be able to justify them in terms of weakening the NCR and diverting resources away from fighting the Legion, but also further weakening their supply lines. It also sets up an extremely weak enemy the Legion can then make an example of.

[hurrdurrmurrgurr]

Justifying siding with anyone because you're a "moral" person just doesn't work. The only reason to side with the powder gangers is that you're about to trek across the Mojave while everyone takes pot shots at you and the powder gangers are the only ones with the explosives, ammo, and bodies available to make sure you don't get shot in the head again. Siding with Goodsprings because you're a nice guy is just announcing that you're the most 2 dimensional character in the game and proud of it.

[Nohbodey]

Justifying siding with anyone because you're a "moral" person just doesn't work. The only reason to side with the powder gangers is that you're about to trek across the Mojave while everyone takes pot shots at you and the powder gangers are the only ones with the explosives, ammo, and bodies available to make sure you don't get shot in the head again. Siding with Goodsprings because you're a nice guy is just announcing that you're the most 2 dimensional character in the game and proud of it.

 

Oooh boy, this is a pretty silly paragraph:

1. The Powder Gangers don't help prevent you from getting shot in the head again, nor do they offer to.

2. They probably couldn't protect you if Benny and his Great Khans decided to come after you again. Seeing as Benny is a pretty good shot (at least according to All Roads), and the Khans are pretty tough.

3. They're nothing next to NCR in terms of having explosives, ammo, and bodies.

4. If you side with them against NCR when the NCR tries to take them out, the Rangers come after you (and I'd rather take on Powder Gangers than Rangers any day).

5. How does doing the right thing make you a two-dimensional character? An analogy comes to mind: You've got to cross a room, and there's a dog directly in your path. If you don't kick the dog out of the way, then you're a two-dimensional character, because clearly that's the easier method.

[MrPudding]

Siding with Goodsprings because you're a nice guy is just announcing that you're the most 2 dimensional character in the game and proud of it.

 

Funny, I would consider it the other way around. Doc Mitchell saving your life and Sunny Smiles teaching you basic tutorial survival skills are some of the very first things you experience in Goodsprings. This is very likely to leave a good impression of the town on the Courier. He's very likely to feel like he owes it to the town to help them out against the Powder Gangers or at the very least not bother getting involved since he's more concerned with the people who shot him. You'd have to be playing a pretty f***ed up character to side with the Powder Gangers. Not taking into account that all the people were friendly, nursed you back to health, and gave you advice almost sounds like you're doing it just for the sake of being evil, and that sounds like a character with no dimensions at all.

[hurrdurrmurrgurr]

Justifying siding with anyone because you're a "moral" person just doesn't work. The only reason to side with the powder gangers is that you're about to trek across the Mojave while everyone takes pot shots at you and the powder gangers are the only ones with the explosives, ammo, and bodies available to make sure you don't get shot in the head again. Siding with Goodsprings because you're a nice guy is just announcing that you're the most 2 dimensional character in the game and proud of it.

 

Oooh boy, this is a pretty silly paragraph:

1. The Powder Gangers don't help prevent you from getting shot in the head again, nor do they offer to.

2. They probably couldn't protect you if Benny and his Great Khans decided to come after you again. Seeing as Benny is a pretty good shot (at least according to All Roads), and the Khans are pretty tough.

3. They're nothing next to NCR in terms of having explosives, ammo, and bodies.

4. If you side with them against NCR when the NCR tries to take them out, the Rangers come after you (and I'd rather take on Powder Gangers than Rangers any day).

5. How does doing the right thing make you a two-dimensional character? An analogy comes to mind: You've got to cross a room, and there's a dog directly in your path. If you don't kick the dog out of the way, then you're a two-dimensional character, because clearly that's the easier method.

1. They have the supplies and more than enough men to take down Benny when he attacked at the end of the comic.

2.They have a lot of dynamite and you aren't just going to sit in their prison you can just use their place as a fortified base to keep out the jackals/vipers/wildlife before heading down the road and stock up on supplies for the trip. On my first go of the game I set the difficulty to very hard and watched Sunny get eaten by geckos in the tutorial, needless to say I've come to doubt her ability to defend the town from anything.

3. It's too bad for them that by that point I'll be down the road with a pack full of all the dynamite and ammo I could get from them and Goodsprings and yet I'll still be greeted if I happen to meet any other smaller camps of them. At that point I can befriend the NCR while the gangers are away allowing me minimal conflict on my journey.

4. I'm down the road with their friendship and ammo who cares about them beyond being the best springboard for starting your journey without getting another bullet in your head.

5. Because it means your character is very shortsighted and doesn't realise they're turning several areas of the wasteland into kill zones for themselves or is disregarding the roleplaying aspect of the game and is just focusing on healthbars, karma meters, faction bars and letting the player feel good about themselves.

 

If you treat Fallout with the same sense that you would in reality where one bullet can kill you and having someone point a gun at you is a very bad thing then befriending all the toughest gangs for protection makes sense. If you treat it as a game and call yourself the warrior of justice then you are being two dimensional.

Edited February 14, 2011 by hurrdurrmurrgurr

[Neariox]

I killed to powder gangers just for the fun of it. If you do the NCR will like you more. Plus after a while the powder gangers will become neutral again after clearing out NCRCF

[Greymane]

1. They have the supplies and more than enough men to take down Benny when he attacked at the end of the comic.

2.They have a lot of dynamite and you aren't just going to sit in their prison you can just use their place as a fortified base to keep out the jackals/vipers/wildlife before heading down the road and stock up on supplies for the trip. On my first go of the game I set the difficulty to very hard and watched Sunny get eaten by geckos in the tutorial, needless to say I've come to doubt her ability to defend the town from anything.

3. It's too bad for them that by that point I'll be down the road with a pack full of all the dynamite and ammo I could get from them and Goodsprings and yet I'll still be greeted if I happen to meet any other smaller camps of them. At that point I can befriend the NCR while the gangers are away allowing me minimal conflict on my journey.

4. I'm down the road with their friendship and ammo who cares about them beyond being the best springboard for starting your journey without getting another bullet in your head.

5. Because it means your character is very shortsighted and doesn't realise they're turning several areas of the wasteland into kill zones for themselves or is disregarding the roleplaying aspect of the game and is just focusing on healthbars, karma meters, faction bars and letting the player feel good about themselves.

 

If you treat Fallout with the same sense that you would in reality where one bullet can kill you and having someone point a gun at you is a very bad thing then befriending all the toughest gangs for protection makes sense. If you treat it as a game and call yourself the warrior of justice then you are being two dimensional.

 

1. The comic is non-canonical and makes so many mistakes on other things that it seems bizarre to take it at it's word that Benny even wears a checkered suit, let alone the relative strength of any faction.

 

2. See your own answer to 5 on role-playing vs game mechanics. Very Hard difficulty isn't "the way the world is meant to be," it's a deliberate mechanical challenge for the player. I've seen Powder Gangers on other difficulty levels get taken down by bloat flies and I have personally, alone and with nothing but a knife on Very Hard difficulty, killed every single Powder Ganger in the world. If we're judging by these standards then the Powder Gangers are laughably pathetic, but then that wouldn't be role-playing.

 

3. Deep role-playing strictly involves siding with whoever is convenient at the time and can get you the most equipment and have the easiest time moving around, even when two of these allies have interests that run counter to one another? So, you're only role-playing if you're playing a selfish and duplicitous character. That's an interesting way to look at it.

 

4. Again, deep role-playing is about whoever gives you the best mechanical advantage? If that's the case, you're better off siding with Goodsprings. You'll get far more ammo and equipment by looting dead Powder Gangers and clearing out the NCRCF than you could from Good Springs.

 

5. Yeah, if you couldn't guess, this was the statement that had me shaking my head in befuddlement. After giving answers to Nohbodey strictly from a "what will benefit me mechanically the most" standpoint or using skewed difficulty levels (a game mechanic) as a meter to judge characters, you then accuse anyone who sides with Goodsprings as being two-dimensional because... they're doing it for the mechanical benefits. That's just silly. What if you're playing an NCR supporter who realizes that the only reason the Powder Gangers are operational at all is because the NCR is overstretched and takes it upon themselves to help fix the situation? What if your character is just someone who won't tolerate bullies, no matter if they're wearing a prison uniform or a military uniform? What if Goodsprings just reminds your character of home? What if you're character is actually grateful to them for patching him/her up? You can come up with any number of role-play reasons to side with Goodsprings, without giving a single thought to anything mechanically related. Just like you could for any faction, Powder Gangers included.

 

Your character is no more or less deep for siding with anyone. If you prefer the Powder Gangers, more power to you, but don't try to act like anyone who prefers siding with Goodsprings is somehow playing the game wrong or in an inferior way to you, because clearly your own reasons are no different than what you claim theirs would be.