DrunkenGamer Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Personally, I'm diggin' Hobbes's grip on life. You? For those unaware, John Locke is the guy who said that all humans have equal rights as humans, including life, liberty, and the happiness thing.Thomas Hobbes is that guy that said humans basically are awful and that they give up their freedom to be less awful. Take your pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 John Locke of course, doubt your going to get mixed opinions on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBaron2 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I'd rather go with John Locke. People, funnily enough, do resent being treated like cattle. We do all have it in our nature to be good, or to be awful, but we're not all one or the other--the world is not black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ub3rman123 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Hobbes is half right. There are just enough brutes and fiends out there that without control, life will be as he described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grannywils Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 It was Hobbes' philosophy that had the most influence on Locke. He said that government was the result of individual actions and motivated primarily by interest. His works influenced many later liberals and politicans of varying stripes. But I would probably pick Locke if forced. However, I would be more likely to pick Aristotle or Erasmus if given my druthers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurielius Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 OK, the field of choices is too limited and I like granny's inclusions but if push became shove I would have to go with Locke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenGamer Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 It was Hobbes' philosophy that had the most influence on Locke. He said that government was the result of individual actions and motivated primarily by interest. His works influenced many later liberals and politicans of varying stripes. But I would probably pick Locke if forced. However, I would be more likely to pick Aristotle or Erasmus if given my druthers. I'm sure that both John Locke and Thomas Hobbes influenced eachother mutually. It's really impossible not to when information back then was starting to get around, actually. But I see that you have more of a positive view on life. That's good, I guess. I chose these two because they're always juxtaposed as opposites in a similar time period, which they basically were opposites.I'm just interested in seeing everybody's perspective on human beings in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDNA Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 (edited) Too bad I have to pick either Hobbs or Locke...If you would ad Immanuel Kant (most famous quoted for "Sapere aude" / "Dare to Know") to the list who himself further developed the philosophies of both named above then we would sum up the list of philosophers of that school of philosophy pretty well that have importance in that time period. John Locke developed the 1st the thesis in his second pamphlet that has been after him adapted Charles de Montesquieu the principle of the separation of powers. Since it can with clear certainty assumed that John Locke has read Thomas Hobbs Leviathan and used it as source for at least one work. A loot of the thesis's of Immanuel Kant build up on John Locke's work and on Thomas Hobbs workSo would be for the uneducated philosopher a good choice to pick John Locke if you are from a country with English language to make the debate only an English relevant one. But ... and this is a big questioned one that could be debatedSince three of in my post name philosophers from the same school of philosophy, believed not only in the natural law of selection and additionally in the absolute power of the government and on the law philosophic side on the absolute law of a government as from god given. (sorry I know religious it is forbidden to debate here, but sadly is part of the basis of the law concept of all three philosophers in question) I would rather recommend a participation of a match up Baruch Spinoza vs. all above mentioned philosophers here, because it would be a more interesting than to debate two philosophers of the same school of thinking. Don't you think there are more interesting match ups in philosophy than Hobbs and Locke that had similar lines of thinking ? Philosophy lives from controversy debate more than on picking up a single English match up that have too many similar methods of thinking and related thesis's. So in basis I like Granny's idea but are open to others match ups as well. Edited February 26, 2011 by SilverDNA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenGamer Posted February 26, 2011 Author Share Posted February 26, 2011 Honestly, this wasn't supposed to be a philosopher vs philosopher debate.It was a "humans are awful" vs "humans are good" debate. But whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keanumoreira Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Ah, I like this topic. :D John Locke. His theory on everyone being born and shaped by a resulting enviorment doesn't sound so crazy when it comes down to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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