Putting GPS Chips in Children & Teens

[myrmaad]

Absolutely all true, Ginny.

 

I had a dear great aunt who's long passed away. Me and my grandmom would go stay with her near the end because developed Alzheimers and she would leave things on the stove, and lose things, she would get into all kinds of trouble, but never went wandering off.

 

I tend to totally agree with you too, Wizard. In fact, you've basically made my only point.

 

A private conversation prompted this thought.

While I entertain this idea with great caution, I would think this should only be accessible by law enforcement officials at the prompt of something like a missing persons report. Not by mom on her computer in the den.

[DeadMansFist849]

It's still too much of a slippery slope--it's like the slowly-boiled frog.

[SilverDNA]

Welcome to Big Brother 1984.... and George Orwell's vision will be come true by this cause of actions ...freedom what is it worth to you all and if the parents don't teach the value of the freedom to children well think this a bit on and you get a good guess.

You can't teach children and trust in not trusting them and the abuses of this measure are such high that I'm against it because it will only lead to a society that will have deep distrust against anything ...

Paranoia and full of conspiracy believers. Well if this get through I assume the rise of 1/3 or more of those will be a good guess...

Now parents that are worried only need a handy or sew a Chip to the baby romper... Is more really necessary?

Think this over and measure the pro' and the possible con's, there might be more than on the 1st look than might be visible.

Sorry no work up that the 'thought control' can come sooner for me!

I'm a free spirit and i believe that freedom has to sometimes thought to children by trusting them and by actions not by mere lip-services! try to see it through the eyes of your children and teenagers for only once..Yes I know some of your fear for their well being but to much fear raises fearful children as well.

Sorry that my thoughts are a bit unsorted but I'm a bit angry at how ready you sacrifice your freedom as well, because it can go the other way around as well when children drop such GPS chips into your hand bag or sew them into your trousers so that they aren't surprised if they go out of the line ...

This can be abused in a loot of ways and I guarantee that it will be.

Edited March 18, 2011 by SilverDNA

[marharth]

Honestly if the kid is old enough to go out and do stuff on their own I am sure they can find a way to remove a chip.

 

Not going to work to implant a chip in a babies brain, brains tend to grow with age.

 

Also is it really so important to stop teen sex and teen drug use to go as far to implant a chip in them?

 

Who really cares? People act like teens do that kind of stuff due to magic evil Satan forces or video games or something, they do it for the same reason as people over 21.

 

 

That being said, chips are completely unnecessary.

 

Want to keep watch of your baby? Be a parent and don't let them wander off. It is really that simple.

 

If you really need to have a GPS device just strap a watch on them.

 

It wouldn't work on teens at all though, if someone knew they had a chip in them they would probably try to cut it out/ask a doctor to do it.

 

If I had a chip in my arm when I was 14 I would cut out my arm if no one was willing to remove it, I am sure a lot of other people would as well.

 

This would be much like abortion, if someone wants a abortion and a doctor won't do it they will just do it the unsafe, dangerous way. So even bring this up for teens is completely insane in my opinion.

 

It only makes sense for toddlers and babies, and a chip is not needed since they wouldn't be able to take off a proper GPS bracelet.

[antonkr]

Wouldn't it be possible for pedophiles to hack it and look for nearby victims? If you think about it. Nothing truly is not-hackable. There would always be a way.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

@ myrmaad-

 

I'm sorry, but I feel that I have to call you out on the parent-dropping. I may be taking your posts the wrong way, and I apologize if I am, but it seems as though you're cutting opposing views off with the "you won't understand until you're a parent" line. No, we probably won't. However, as a parent you may be prematurely dismissing the other perspective- that is to say, your child's. From the images you're posting, I gather your child is quite young- far too young to understand the implications of these technologies and certainly too young to make an informed decision regarding their use. Does that mean you'd be making the wrong decision if you had the option of such an implant? Not necessarily, but the consequences of that decision do not simply go away when your child grows up, and that makes it an open issue- parents are not the only folks qualified to weigh in on it.

 

Furthermore, what possible difference does it make if someone is living at home? That is utterly uncalled for and rather offensive. In point of fact, I do live at home- to take care of my mother who, like ginnyfizz's mum, has Alzheimer's disease (I wouldn't chip her either, although it hardly matters now that she can't get around on her own). I really do not see what that has to do with GPS tracking implants- it wouldn't make a difference if I were a deadbeat slob living in the basement contributing nothing to the family. One's means and location do not constitute qualification to judge the validity of one's opinions- else why not make the right to vote contingent upon socioeconomic status?

 

I do not have children- I do not intend to any time in the immediate future. I'm 24... which is not so far removed from youth as to have forgotten the kid's point of view. I can only speak from how I would have felt if I had discovered somewhere in my pre-majority teen years that I had been implanted with a tracking device. I would have been absolutely furious- I was a very well-behaved kid, but I always had two hard limits. Those were any sort of mind-altering medication without my consent, and any sort of medical procedures without my consent. I had a very good home life, and I would have run away for certain if one of these things had been forced on me. I would have strongly considered cutting myself off from my parents entirely, though I'll freely admit that my views on this matter are rather extreme.

 

You say these chips 'only' last for about 20 years... okay, great. If the chip is implanted at birth, then the person it's installed in will have been an adult for two full years by the time it dies. On upward from there- if the kid was chipped at five or six when they start school, then they'll be in their mid-twenties and possibly living in their own place by the time they're no longer traceable. I ask again, does the child have to be informed about the procedure or can it be done without their knowledge? Are they given the option of having it removed or are they stuck with it until it wears out or they have the money to get a doctor to remove it? Any procedure that lasts decades is effectively permanent. Even after the chip deactivates, it will not simply be absorbed into the body- it will remain there until removed by a doctor, whether it functions or not.

 

Regardless of how simple removal is, bear in mind that no medical procedure is cheap to a young adult. Someone in their late teens or early twenties is likely to be in college or working a minimum-wage job, and even the simplest of optional procedures costs thousands of dollars- I somehow doubt that chip removal is covered under any insurance plans, and certainly not on a minimum-coverage plan of the sort commonly held by younger adults living independently.

 

Again, there are consequences that go beyond a parent's responsibility here. As a parent, you certainly have a right to make decisions that you feel are in the best interests of your child. Nobody should ever take that away- it is one of the founding ideals of any free society. However, use of this sort of technolgy involves not just a decision for a child under a parent's authority, but a decision made without the consent of an adult as well- the adult that your child will become. This is not a purely beneficial decision, like braces are (as uncomfortable as the things are, nobody can contest that straighter teeth work better)- once that child becomes an adult legally and mentally capable of being responsible for their own affairs, it becomes an unwarranted intrusion into their private life. It does not matter if it is never used again after they turn 18 (or whatever the age of majority is where you live)- the potential for its use remains.

 

I cannot say that it is something that is utterly wrong, nor that it could never be used responsibly, just that its responsible use requires one to look farther ahead than immediate safety concerns to include the civil rights issues involved. Because the law tends to lag well behind technology, all of the onus is on the parent to use such technology responsibly and safely... and there is no guarantee that it could not be abused by non-parental authorities such as schools and police, either. Heck, there are already a handful of school districts in the US that use GPS devices (not implants though) for truant enforcement. Are there legitimate uses for the technology? Yes, there are. I can even see it as an effective supplement to parental oversight, though I am personally against implanted devices because of the larger privacy rights issue. As long as GPS/RFID is not treated as a substitute for supervision... because if it is, and I fear that it will be should it become ubiquitous, it may well do more harm than good. I may be proven wrong- I can offer no evidence, only opinion.

 

I would hope that any parent willing to make use of GPS or RFID technolgy in this manner would take the extra step and, when their child is old enough, inform them about it and offer to have it removed.

 

Apologies if I'm coming across as preachy here... I get pretty worked up about privacy issues.

[myrmaad]

I think you're simply mistaking me for someone who advocates this practice.

 

 

I do think it would be helpful if used for finding missing persons, there seems to be a lot of under-estimation about the amount of missing persons there are, in this particular discussion. Consider how it would help right now in a place like Japan, (or Haiti, or New Orleans).

 

I'm personally really not too concerned about big brother, on the other hand I am more concerned about lawless criminals.

 

http://www.doenetwork.org/

 

http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/stats.php

 

 

So with safeguards, I think it is worth deep and serious consideration.

[marharth]

I think you're simply mistaking me for someone who advocates this practice.

 

 

I do think it would be helpful if used for finding missing persons, there seems to be a lot of under-estimation about the amount of missing persons there are, in this particular discussion. Consider how it would help right now in a place like Japan, (or Haiti, or New Orleans).

 

I'm personally really not too concerned about big brother, on the other hand I am more concerned about lawless criminals.

 

http://www.doenetwork.org/

 

http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/stats.php

 

 

So with safeguards, I think it is worth deep and serious consideration.

The thing I am trying to say is whats wrong with a simple locked bracelet? Toddlers and babies would not be able to remove them and wouldn't be smart enough to make the choice.

 

When someone is smart enough to make that choice then they could choose to have a implant or not.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Wouldn't it be possible for pedophiles to hack it and look for nearby victims? If you think about it. Nothing truly is not-hackable. There would always be a way.

 

Cop cars have lojack and or GPS, theoretically you could create a system which hacked in and tracked every police vehicle's location in real time. No one has done this yet that I know of, but hey, it's possible.

 

People speculating about keeping your kids from drinking or having sex are missing the point.

 

From a parents perspective I wouldn't mind having something like this for my daughter. It wouldn't be to keep her from making stupid decisions when she is a teen, which we all have done. It would be so if she was ever lost or kidnapped, law enforcement and I could track down the the child and hopefully save them.

[marharth]

Wouldn't it be possible for pedophiles to hack it and look for nearby victims? If you think about it. Nothing truly is not-hackable. There would always be a way.

 

Cop cars have lojack and or GPS, theoretically you could create a system which hacked in and tracked every police vehicle's location in real time. No one has done this yet that I know of, but hey, it's possible.

 

People speculating about keeping your kids from drinking or having sex are missing the point.

 

From a parents perspective I wouldn't mind having something like this for my daughter. It wouldn't be to keep her from making stupid decisions when she is a teen, which we all have done. It would be so if she was ever lost or kidnapped, law enforcement and I could track down the the child and hopefully save them.

Why use a chip?

 

There are a ton of other ways to use hidden GPS devices.