I Am At My Wits End

[Axisdeath]

So, "The Way Of The Voice" isn't starting. First I tried exiting and reloading, then I tried fresh starting, then I tried using setstage to start the quest. The first 2 did nothing to trigger the quest, and I get no response from the game when I use setstage. Then, I did a clean save and used tgm and tlc to bum rush the main quest line, and it worked! So, it was either a glitch I was unaware of, or a mod. I slowly, thoroughly, and exclusively installed cosmetic mods. my ENB, body mods, CoT and of few other general improvements to how the game looks. After that, I played through normally, as I always would, and the glitch happened again. After talking to Jarl Balgruuf, Dragon Rising complete, but The Way Of The Voice still doesn't start. And yes, I am making sure I go through all the dialogue, as I have hundreds of times in the past. Then, I found out about a glitch that if you start the "In My Time Of Need" quest before turning in "Dragon Rising", the next quest won't trigger. So, I started over again, and avoided the Al'kir in Whiterun entirely, and yes, the glitch persists still!

 

This glitch made me quit the game entirely about 4 months ago, and it still haunts me. I can not even begin to think of what mod might be causing this, as ALL of my mods are just to make the game look pretty, and when I finally found a glitch that might be the actual reason, and did everything to avoid it, IT STILL HAPPENED.

 

I love Skyrim, it's one of my all time favorite games, but this is really killing me. It's so incredibly frustrating.

 

Also, because someone has already suggested this, I have used LOOT to make sure my load order is good.

 

EDIT: Here's my load order:

 

Skyrim.esm

Update.esm

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

Dawnguard.esm

Unofficial Dawngaurd Patch.esp

Hearthfires.esm

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp

Dragonborn.esm

Unofficial Dargonborn Patch.esp

Apachiihairfemales.esm

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm

CLARALUX - More and brighter Lights.esm

Highrestexturepack01.esp

^02.esp

^03.esp

Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp

SkyUI.esp

TheEyesOfBeauty.esp

Brows.esp

Recorder Follower Base.esp

CharacterMakingExtender.esp

SMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.esp

SMIM-Merger-All.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp

Further Dark Dungeons for ENB.esp

SFO- Expanded Diversity.esp

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp

Character Creation Overhaul.esp

CCO- Dynamic Skill Progression.esp

Edited August 24, 2015 by Axisdeath

[Corwin1971]

This may not be want you want to hear, but it sounds like to me that there are two things at work here:

1- you know what you want to happen and you're trying to brute force it when you want it to happen instead of playing the game organically

2 - you're using the console way too much

 

I know using the console to make things happen exactly when we want them to is de rigueur among Skyrim players, but I think it's the cause of thousands of issues players have with the game. The game is designed with hundreds of triggers and dependencies and it's very easy to break them when you use console commands. Console commands are useful, but IMO should never be used to advance vanilla quests in any way. Little things add up. This kind of thing: Can't find the key you remember is there? Console command! Forgetting that, in the vanilla game, the key isn't available until after you do something else...which now will never happen because you presto-magico gave the key to yourself, and now everything is screwed up.

 

The mods you list don't sound like they have anything to do with the issue. Unless you're leaving out the fact that you have, for example, Alternate Start or Helgen Reborn installed, I would put my money on the reasons I wrote above. It doesn't take that long to get the game to the point you're talking about. If you can start a new game, be patient enough to get to the Jarl without using any console commands, and THEN the quest won't start? Then I'd say you have an issue. I'll bet that works fine.

[Axisdeath]

This may not be want you want to hear, but it sounds like to me that there are two things at work here:

1- you know what you want to happen and you're trying to brute force it when you want it to happen instead of playing the game organically

2 - you're using the console way too much

 

I know using the console to make things happen exactly when we want them to is de rigueur among Skyrim players, but I think it's the cause of thousands of issues players have with the game. The game is designed with hundreds of triggers and dependencies and it's very easy to break them when you use console commands. Console commands are useful, but IMO should never be used to advance vanilla quests in any way. Little things add up. This kind of thing: Can't find the key you remember is there? Console command! Forgetting that, in the vanilla game, the key isn't available until after you do something else...which now will never happen because you presto-magico gave the key to yourself, and now everything is screwed up.

 

The mods you list don't sound like they have anything to do with the issue. Unless you're leaving out the fact that you have, for example, Alternate Start or Helgen Reborn installed, I would put my money on the reasons I wrote above. It doesn't take that long to get the game to the point you're talking about. If you can start a new game, be patient enough to get to the Jarl without using any console commands, and THEN the quest won't start? Then I'd say you have an issue. I'll bet that works fine.

 

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood. I didn't start using the console until nothing else I tried worked. I've played through to this point about 30 times without commands, as console commands were my last resort. The one time I did bum rush the quest by TGMing to speed through everything before it was the only time the quest did trigger correctly, and that was on a clean, vanilla install.

 

Like I said, the console commands are my absolute last resort, after everything else I know of didn't work. Here's and exact list of everything I tried:

1. Reloading. Glitch persists.

2. Reloading. Glitch Persists.

3. Deactivating all mods and reloading. Glitch Persists.

4. Verifying integrity of game cache, 1 missing file found. Glitch Persists.

5. SetStage console command. Nothing Happens/Glitch Persists.

6. Starting over and playing through as I always have. Glitch Persists.

7. Clean installation, and then using TGM and TLC to get through Helgen, the golden claw quest, and killing the dragon ASAP. It worked! But it was a test character, so I decide to be more careful when deciding which mods to install and use.

8. Playing through normally, with cosmetic mods. Glitch occurs AGAIN.

9. Find about possible cause, "In My Time Of Need" messing with how the quest trigger. Avoids IMTON and starts over. Glitch Persists.

10. Deactivating all mods again and starting over glitch persists.

 

Not to mention the numerous other times I restarted deactivating specific mods, or just restarted hoping it would fix itself, AND all the trouble I went through 4 months ago when I initially gave up.

 

I've played through this game at least 50 times, and have a cumulative time of hour 650 hours in game. I know the problems that console commands can cause, and I know the problems that mods can cause, and I know that the game itself, despite being years after release can still be a glitchy mess. It really seems like something in my games base files screwed up for some reason, or one mod that shouldn't be causing this is doing something it's not supposed to.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Axisdeath

[Corwin1971]

Hmm. You definitely have my sympathies.

 

I don't offhand know what the relationship to the broken quest trigger would be, but out of curiosity, did you wipe out your MyGames/Skryim folder when you did the clean install? I don't think anything in the documents folder gets deleted by default. I'm most curious about what persistent issue is hanging around after you re-installed the game.

 

You said the only thing you changed between your success and the subsequent failure was the addition of some cosmetic mods. I don't know why cosmetic mods would affect the quest (something I'd imagine you're thinking as well), but maybe list them here? Some folks are good at recognizing known problems in mods or combinations of mods. You never know.

 

Good luck.

Edited August 24, 2015 by Corwin1971

[Aintiarna]

Why don't you post your mod list so we can take a look at it and see what might be causing the problem? Sometimes it's due to a mod conflict that prevents a quest alias from generating. Then a quest silently fails. It's very frustrating but can also be easily fixed if you know what you're looking for.

[Axisdeath]

I didn't delete the My Document folders, but that one time when the quest DID trigger correctly still stands you know? So it probably isn't anything there. Here's my load order:

 

Skyrim.esm

Update.esm

Unofficial Skyrim Patch.esp

Dawnguard.esm

Unofficial Dawngaurd Patch.esp

Hearthfires.esm

Unofficial Hearthfire Patch.esp

Dragonborn.esm

Unofficial Dargonborn Patch.esp

Apachiihairfemales.esm

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm

CLARALUX - More and brighter Lights.esm

Highrestexturepack01.esp

^02.esp

^03.esp

Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp

SkyUI.esp

TheEyesOfBeauty.esp

Brows.esp

Recorder Follower Base.esp

CharacterMakingExtender.esp

SMIM-FarmhouseFlickeringFix.esp

SMIM-Merger-All.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp

Further Dark Dungeons for ENB.esp

SFO- Expanded Diversity.esp

Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp

Character Creation Overhaul.esp

CCO- Dynamic Skill Progression.esp

 

That's my load order after using LOOT, the only non cosmetic thing here is the Character Creation Overhaul.

[Corwin1971]

Okay, forgive me if any of these questions seem to doubt your intelligence. I'm just kinda stumped, and wondering if it might be something obvious, but easily overlooked.

 

#1 - Where are you getting your load order list from? Have you used multiple means of installing mods? (Steam, NMM, manual, etc.) I'm wondering if it's at all possible that there's an .esp being loaded that you're unaware of.

#2 - have you tried this without CCO, but with everything else? I guess testing that would require a fresh install again, which is a pain, but I would be curious. I read a little bit on CCO and the comments and it doesn't SOUND like it has caused these problems, but considering that it does change progression, and that it is the only mod you have installed that isn't cosmetic, I would try that before I gave up.

I wish I had a better suggestion. Maybe someone else will wander by who has heard of this issue.

[Axisdeath]

Okay, forgive me if any of these questions seem to doubt your intelligence. I'm just kinda stumped, and wondering if it might be something obvious, but easily overlooked.

 

#1 - Where are you getting your load order list from? Have you used multiple means of installing mods? (Steam, NMM, manual, etc.) I'm wondering if it's at all possible that there's an .esp being loaded that you're unaware of.

 

#2 - have you tried this without CCO, but with everything else? I guess testing that would require a fresh install again, which is a pain, but I would be curious. I read a little bit on CCO and the comments and it doesn't SOUND like it has caused these problems, but considering that it does change progression, and that it is the only mod you have installed that isn't cosmetic, I would try that before I gave up.

 

I wish I had a better suggestion. Maybe someone else will wander by who has heard of this issue.

 

I manually typed out the load order directly from NMM. Usually I exclusively use NMM to install, but after my last re-installation of the game NMM wasn't working correctly (Last night, or the night before?), so I installed a few mods manually. Mostly just CBBE (Which I have, but isn't listed because it doesn't have a ESP or ESM) and Apachii.

 

CCO is actually the most recent addition to the list, and all of my previous attempts before my latest were done without it, so I know that's not the problem.

[Corwin1971]

 

Okay, forgive me if any of these questions seem to doubt your intelligence. I'm just kinda stumped, and wondering if it might be something obvious, but easily overlooked.

 

#1 - Where are you getting your load order list from? Have you used multiple means of installing mods? (Steam, NMM, manual, etc.) I'm wondering if it's at all possible that there's an .esp being loaded that you're unaware of.

 

#2 - have you tried this without CCO, but with everything else? I guess testing that would require a fresh install again, which is a pain, but I would be curious. I read a little bit on CCO and the comments and it doesn't SOUND like it has caused these problems, but considering that it does change progression, and that it is the only mod you have installed that isn't cosmetic, I would try that before I gave up.

 

I wish I had a better suggestion. Maybe someone else will wander by who has heard of this issue.

 

I manually typed out the load order directly from NMM. Usually I exclusively use NMM to install, but after my last re-installation of the game NMM wasn't working correctly (Last night, or the night before?), so I installed a few mods manually. Mostly just CBBE (Which I have, but isn't listed because it doesn't have a ESP or ESM) and Apachii.

 

 

 

See, that's what I'm wondering about. That might not show everything, especially if you've ever used Steam Workshop.

 

Try using Wyre Bash or something to look at your .esm/esps. Or under data files in the Skyrim launcher. That will be sure to show everything that the game is loading.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Corwin1971

[Axisdeath]

Wrye Bash is showing the exact same list, nothing new.