Political Correctness,

[BlackBaron2]

It is. That doesn't mean that saying "Don't treat other people like they're worth less than you" is oppression. People being ridiculed and shamed for saying ignorant or hateful things is not oppresion based on them being straight and white, you know. I call people on sexism towards men, hating skinny people, racism towards white people and so on. I don't like it when people are superficial because, you know, I know what it feels like.

[Aurielius]

There can be no difference where discrimination is concerned. It doesn't matter who is being discriminated against, it is still wrong either way. Leastways that's what the law over here says.

The reason why nobody will agree with you Ginny, is because if they did, It'd be too hard to answer the question "Well who's responsible for descrimination?"

It's also the reason why adjectives like "white trash" don't raise an eyebrow.

OK I am going out on the limb with Ginnyfizz, I see no difference in the tyranny of the majority from the tyranny of the minority. The former have the comfort of being the mass of opinion and the latter have the comfort of being viewed as the oppressed victim. However when either group imposes it view as mandatory then it is social tyranny. The current media has a liberal bias and tends to impose this on the majority which is actually more in the middle than either extreme. I am NOT advocating discrimination of ANY sub group but the right to hold an opinion that is not in vogue which is not discrimination. I have stated before and will state again that I believe in Honesty and Good Manners which should be enough to exist in society without causing harm to anyone or any group, it's called freedom of opinion and thought. I await with wry amusement the rebuttals that are sure to come from speaking out honestly.

 

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac177/Aurielius/wisdomdemotivationalposter.jpg

Edited April 27, 2011 by Aurielius

[myrmaad]

:whistling:

 

Am I wrong to think it simple-minded, or purposely obtuse to fail to see that there is a whole legal and social system of redress available to those in the majority of any social/legal system where that very system was set up by those in the majority? If you have a complaint, there is a fine system available to you for remedy. It is by its own nature tilted in favor of the majority who designed it, not out of malice, but by design.

 

Exceptions to the rule do not disprove it. It's not that it isn't "politically correct" to talk about those exceptions. Those exceptions are simply irrelevant in the grand scheme when we are discussing historical racism and discrimination. So bringing those exceptions up are a bit like a red herring, and tend to look either foolish or like a deliberate attempt to mislead, and I'm not talking about Ginny, specifically, because I think she is simply a mouthpiece for that view, in this case, (the same as she is probably seeing me.) I'm talking about anyone who attempts to make some kind of valid argument to discount the longterm ramifications of generations of systematic oppression and how that affects the opportunities available to an entire class of human, based on nothing else but their race (or creed or colour).

 

I have as much right to rebutt as you do, Aurelius. And by the way, your opinions are very much "in vogue".

 

For the record, I don't appreciate being called a "raging" anything much less liberal. I voted for Reagan twice, and I haven't changed much. I can often agree with intelligent people who think things through, no matter where they're coming from.

[BlackBaron2]

"It's not OK to treat someone else like a space demon for not being like you" is not oppression. Oppression is, well, systematic. It doesn't have to be done by the government, but can be done by groups of people in the community towards those they perceive as outsiders as well, for example. Unfair treatment does happen to everybody, which of course is not right, and anybody can be oppressed. However, with "political correctness" we're talking purely about the UK, US and Western Europe, where very little is likely to happen to you just because you are white, heterosexual and living the "white picket fences" life. Like I said, you're unlikely to be denied an opportunity just because you are a straight white guy who wants to go back to the 1950s. Women, non-Caucasian people, LGBT people and disabled people have historically got the short end of the stick in Western culture for a very long time, and while this doesn't mean that affirmative action is in any way good or helpful (all it does is promote resentment and bring the nutcases out of the woodwork) it does mean that we should not forget what happened in the past. We have to try to be better.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with at the very least accepting your neighbour and staying the bleep out of hir* business.

 

 

*Not a typo, it's a gender-neutral pronoun.

[Aurielius]

 

I have as much right to rebutt as you do, Aurelius. And by the way, your opinions are very much "in vogue".

@Myrmaad

I would defend your rights as if they were my own, that is after all the concept of free speech is it not? Though at least here within this community I am not following lock step with the majority so I don't think I am in vogue as you suggest. :whistling:

[ginnyfizz]

:whistling:

 

Am I wrong to think it simple-minded, or purposely obtuse to fail to see that there is a whole legal and social system of redress available to those in the majority of any social/legal system where that very system was set up by those in the majority? If you have a complaint, there is a fine system available to you for remedy. It is by its own nature tilted in favor of the majority who designed it, not out of malice, but by design.

 

Exceptions to the rule do not disprove it. It's not that it isn't "politically correct" to talk about those exceptions. Those exceptions are simply irrelevant in the grand scheme when we are discussing historical racism and discrimination. So bringing those exceptions up are a bit like a red herring, and tend to look either foolish or like a deliberate attempt to mislead, and I'm not talking about Ginny, specifically, because I think she is simply a mouthpiece for that view, in this case, (the same as she is probably seeing me.) I'm talking about anyone who attempts to make some kind of valid argument to discount the longterm ramifications of generations of systematic oppression and how that affects the opportunities available to an entire class of human, based on nothing else but their race (or creed or colour).

 

I have as much right to rebutt as you do, Aurelius. And by the way, your opinions are very much "in vogue".

 

For the record, I don't appreciate being called a "raging" anything much less liberal. I voted for Reagan twice, and I haven't changed much. I can often agree with intelligent people who think things through, no matter where they're coming from.

 

Please don't patronise me, I am actually well educated, some might even say intelligent, and have developed my own views. If you really think that anyone can tell me what to think and that I am just a mouthpiece, then you are way off the mark. Believe me, being a conservative in an area like the one I live in needs some bloody mindedness and true belief, since the people's flag is deepest red and being a known Tory is apt to get your tyres slashed, dog poo through your letterbox and spittle in your face. It also means that you will not get a job with the local council or in the National Health Service, or the BBC and it doesn't matter whether you are white or black, you will not get that job.

 

(Not starting a religious debate, merely stating a fact) Couple all this with the fact that I openly practice my religious faith in a denomination that has suffered legal disabilities at best, drawing, hanging and quartering at the worst, for the last five hundred years - please don't tell me that I cannot possibly know discrimination at its most virulent.

 

I have worked in the past in the law, and now work in social welfare with the long term unemployed. I see the effect that politically correct creeds have. Probably the one example that I can actually give without being cried down as a fascist is the comparative plight particularly of young men.

- The young white guys are effectively discriminated against on grounds of race by the politically correct view that they are at an advantage because they are white and male, so receive very little targetted help.

- The young black (as in African/Caribbean )guys are effectively discriminated against on grounds of race by the politically correct view that, because they are from an ethnic group who have undoubtedly been discriminated against in the past, they should in no way be pushed to achieve in school or disciplined, no matter how capable they are.

 

In my work, I am passionate about dealing with the problems of the person, and it makes me angry when people get pigeonholed by this political correctness.

[myrmaad]

@Ginny. Did I say or imply you weren't intelligent or educated? No.

[grannywils]

Myrmaad, I apologize, for I believe I am the one who referred to you as a raging Liberal. I meant it somewhat tongue in cheek. But I am sorry if you took offense. Please accept my apologies. I will make no comments regarding your votes for Reagan, as that is not the subject of this thread...

 

I have already posted in this thread; seems like months ago. All I will say at this point is pretty much what I said before. My feelings are fairly simple. I do not believe in "political correctness". However, I do very much believe that every human being is entitled to be treated with dignity and respect at all times and by everyone.

 

I believe that those on this thread who feel that some members of the human community have not suffered significantly more discrimination and general societal mistreatment than others, are simply either blind or refusing to deal with reality. Yes, we all know that discrimination exists everywhere. Unfortunately it is an ugly human trait that we have not yet managed to obliterate. However, to try and suggest that because you can give anecdotal evidence of discrimination of individual non-ethnic types or middle of the road types and then attempt to equate these to the subjugation of masses of black and brown people or the discrimination against a whole group of gays, or fat people or so many others is anathma to me. Look at what the media and advertising is telling our young people is acceptable. We have a generation of aneorexic young women, as well as men growing up because they have learned that they will not be acceptable "human beings" if they are too fat. Not that they will be unhealthy, but that they will not be good enough.

 

For all I know, each and every one of you on this particular thread may be an exception to what I am about to say; but in society today it seems as though there is just too much interest in the packaging and not enough attention being paid to what is inside each individual. If we could change that, the debate on political correctness could fade away into the distance.

 

I declare myself done!

 

 

 

[csgators]

"there is just too much interest in the packaging and not enough attention being paid to what is inside each individual"

 

Word of wisdom as usual granny, I couldn't agree more and it really permeates all levels of society and culture.

[BlackBaron2]

For all I know, each and every one of you on this particular thread may be an exception to what I am about to say; but in society today it seems as though there is just too much interest in the packaging and not enough attention being paid to what is inside each individual. If we could change that, the debate on political correctness could fade away into the distance.

 

I completely agree. I don't care about body parts, body size, skintone, facial features, sexual orientation, gender identity or pretty much any other superficial characteristic. All I have to say is that I think we should all treat each other the way we'd want to be treated--unfortunately, that view isn't very fashionable. :dry: