Loli

[ita]

Uhh hold on...

 

First off the women only passenger stuff is not sexist at all, that's entirely optional.

 

I would like to see what part of the law code that rape thing is in, because it seems to be from a news article and not a section of law.

 

The women-only passenger cars are a symptom of what is evidently a major problem with groping and sexual harassment in Tokyo. Women demanded those special cars because they felt uncomfortable riding in mixed-gender passenger cars, the Tokyo Metro acknowledged these problems and acted accordingly.

 

It wasn't from a news article but from a research paper, anyway here's the section in the Japanese penal code:

Article 177 A person who, through assault or intimidation, forcibly commits sexual intercourse with a female of not less than thirteen years of age commits the crime of rape and shall be punished by imprisonment with work for a definite term of not less than three years. The same shall apply to a person who commits sexual intercourse with a female under thirteen years of age.

 

Also a few reports submitted to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights tell essentially the same story.

[marharth]

I need to inject that while beauty pageants surely can be terribly unhealthy, they're not even in the same league as lolicon.

 

Little girls typically love to dress up in mommy's clothes. They are emulating and mimicing and socializing their (adult) gender. That is not only fine, it's healthy.

No, little girls don't decide to go out on stage.

 

A lot of girls are too young to even decide for themselves and they get sucked into it for their entire life.

 

 

You seem to go out of your way to argue with me.

 

No? No to what exactly? Putting words in my mouth again? Because I surely didn't say anything about little girls deciding to go on stage. I was talking about my own experience that proves that little girls like to dress up in mommy's clothes and makeup, just as I did as a child, and every little girl in my family has liked to do also, without exception. None of us, three generations, have participated in "beauty pageants" though I was in 4-H and participated in such things as "fair queen" etc.

 

Notice the new paragraph and the extra space in your quoted text? Pageants are off topic for this discussion, as they are nothing like lolicon, which is the subject of this discussion.

 

Further observation on this discussion, is that there are people confusing lolicon with "dressup". Dressup is play, is normal, and is healthy.

 

Got it now? Let's reiterate:

Debating pageants is a new topic I won't have any interest in debating, but I always have an interest in pointing out fallacious thinking.

Unrelated to the subject of pageants, is the observation that mimicry and dress-up play is a form of mimicing the parent and is a primary aspect of how children are socialized into their community, something that has gone on for millenia. If this is an unfamiliar concept you could try reading Mead.

I was using "I need to inject that while beauty pageants surely can be terribly unhealthy"

 

It is not just terribly unhealthy, it can be completely life changing. Lolicon has fake people, beauty pageants have real people.

 

If you did not want to debate on it do not bring it up.

 

I find it unfair to call Japan sexist based on the metro. They clearly acted to try to fix the issue.

 

The rape laws are outdated it seems, but it also looks like people are trying to fix that as well.

 

Calling everyone in Japan sexist is simply not correct.

[myrmaad]

:rolleyes:

 

Anything can be completely life changing. Music lessons can be completely life changing. Sports can be completely life changing.

 

As usual, there's no there there.

[Sync182]

Okay...I'll put my hand up and admit responsibility for the introduction of "Child Beauty Pageants" in this thread.

 

However, it was not intended to be used to derail the thread, but to point out what is clearly a failing (IMO, anyway) in society-at-large: that child-pornography (in any form, regardless of age of child involved) is wrong (and rightly so), while child beauty pageants are legal (even though they equally exploit children, and at ages sometimes younger than those seen in child porn, and some of the things done to those "contestants" borders on child abuse such that if you did those same things to children in a shopping center you'd be reported to police).

 

Children, regardless of their age, should not be exploited in any way - not by parents, nor guardians, nor authority figures, nor other adults, nor even by other children. Child Beauty pageants are reportedly trying to come here to Australia - I hope they fail to get even a foothold in the counrty. Little girls playing dress-ups with mommy's clothes and make-up in the privacy of their own home in front of a mirror is one thing; little girls being dolled up with professional hair styling and make-up and dressed up in clothes that a 15-year-old girl would like and then made to strut a catwalk is something completely different. Sorry, but that's my opinion.

 

[/end off-topic portion]

 

Now, back to Lolicon:

 

The appearance of, and continued use of, the term "Lolita" to describe children (especially young girls) perpetuates the whole child pornography "industry", whether you want to admit it or not. The terms - "lolita" and "child porn" - are linked.

Edited April 6, 2011 by Sync182

[Fatalmasterpiece]

I have to agree with you Sync. Saying the word Loli has nothing to do with sexualizing minors is like saying the derogatory use of the words "gay" or "fag" has nothing to do with defaming homosexuals even though the words originally carried no negative connotations and are used in a slightly different context.

[evilneko]

Well it appears we are in agreement then that usage trumps origin. :thumbsup:

 

I am glad that Japan has fostered a culture and laws which allow gems like Kojika to be published (and that there are people here willing to scanlate it). Anyone trying to publish something similar (or Kojika itself) in the US would meet with a firestorm of controversy, to say the least. Meanwhile in Japan, it's published in a monthly seinen magazine.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Well it appears we are in agreement then that usage trumps origin. :thumbsup:

 

I am glad that Japan has fostered a culture and laws which allow gems like Kojika to be published (and that there are people here willing to scanlate it). Anyone trying to publish something similar (or Kojika itself) in the US would meet with a firestorm of controversy, to say the least. Meanwhile in Japan, it's published in a monthly seinen magazine.

 

Gotta be a place for pedos to get their rocks off wouldn't you say? In America they just get killed in prison, and that's just wrong... /sarcasm

[marharth]

Well it appears we are in agreement then that usage trumps origin. :thumbsup:

 

I am glad that Japan has fostered a culture and laws which allow gems like Kojika to be published (and that there are people here willing to scanlate it). Anyone trying to publish something similar (or Kojika itself) in the US would meet with a firestorm of controversy, to say the least. Meanwhile in Japan, it's published in a monthly seinen magazine.

 

Gotta be a place for pedos to get their rocks off wouldn't you say? In America they just get killed in prison, and that's just wrong... /sarcasm

 

A bit confused by your post, are you suggesting pedophiles should get the death sentence even if they haven't committed a crime?

 

I will go ahead and reply to the original question since I haven't yet.

 

Is Loli morally wrong? I would say yes.

 

Should it be illegal? No.