Gerheardt Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Hello! It's my first topic here. I'm the kind of guy who discovers by itself or uses tutorials on Youtube but now i can't continue without the help of modders. I'm facing a problem in my mod. I'm creating an entire city with various kind of merchants, a player house (Multi adoption mod compatible), its own criminality system (Jail, guards, etc.) and more. I would say that i understand 95% of the tools needed to make an entire city to work correctly. I know how to Navmesh, set lock lists, use ownerships, set AI Packages, creating merchants, factions and all that stuff. So when i faced this problem and verified numerous times what could cause it, i never found the cause of my problem. In my city, there is a farm with 4 NPCs: Benni the food vendor, Bjornd the leek farmer, Anjetta the wheat farmer and finally Annfrid the potato farmer. (You may see an easter egg in the name of my NPCs...lol). The Farm is in the middle of the exterior cell 5. The land where the plants are is 66% contained in the cell 5 and 33% in the cell 6. I verified the navmesh, no problem found, apple green lines at the junction of the cells, triangles follows the landscape smoothly. The 3 farmers are "Ai Packaged" to use their own farming idle markers in Sandbox mode from 5am to 20pm. The sandbox package for each farmer is set to work with an XMarker at the middle of the plants, near the jucntion of cell 5 and 6. They sandbox in a 1500 wide area which covers the entire garden. Each potato marker have Annfrid as owner and each type of plant have their farming idle marker ownership set. My 3 farmers go to sleep inside as programmed, eat inside when they wake up as programmed and go out to farm as programmed. They even lock and unlock the doors as intended. Benni does all he is supposed to do (Sell stuff inside the farm, eat and sleep). The problem arrives during the package where the 3 farmers are supposed to farm. They farm at the beginning of their package or when i wait but otherwise, they stand here doing nothing or just disappear to reappear walking from i don't know where. Sometimes they float in air, walk into the farm exterior walls...anything a bad Navmesh would do but the Navmesh is ok. I faced many problems of that type in many mods i never finished. I always thought the CK just bugged out that part in the saving of the mod. I modified many things afterwards and the additions/corrections work as intended in the game but the god damn well known swedish band don't farm as intended. I worked around 200hours on that mod and it's almost finished but i can't get rid of this problem. I think i saw somewhere that too many NPCS in a small place could be a bad thing. Could it be my problem? In fact i have a guard, 3 farmers, 3 goats and 2 kids almost in the same cell. They are in 4 different cells but still close one to another. Is it my game who doesn't "understand" the mod file? Is it the CK who saved an error in the file and don't correct it even if i change some details? Any help would be heavily appreciated. Je parle Français comme langue maternelle alors si c'est votre langue aussi, gênez vous pas pour m'aider en Français si c'est plus simple pour vous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aintiarna Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Is this city in a new worldspace or Tamriel? If it's in Tamriel have you done the usual reinstate and drag under ground of the original navmesh trick? Because this sounds a little like a deleted navmesh problem to me. Fix that and I'm sure you'll have them all gardening like er, supertroopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerheardt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) It's actually a modified part of Tamriel's landscape near Ivarstead. I touched a lot of the landscape and deleted the vanilla Navmesh of the modified area. I created new triangles to match the modified landscape and match it with the surrounding untouched landscape navmesh. I don't know exactly what you mean by the "usual reinstate and drag under ground navmesh trick". Could you explain it to me? The only navmesh triangles i have are touching the usual visible landscape, not the low definition one that is way lower. Nice pun by the way :tongue: Edited September 8, 2015 by Gerheardt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerheardt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Here's some pics of the Navmesh if it can helphttp://s8.postimg.org/530xjxb2t/image.jpghttp://s8.postimg.org/fbtepqz4l/image.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aintiarna Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Aha. Looks like you'll be thanking me for the music in no time. (*groan*) Anyway. Once you've gour lovely new navmesh all the way you want it, finalised, checked, green edges, blue covers, etc. Save everything and make a backup. Then go to "Data" and Search for the "D" flags. Basically you're going to re-instate the deleted navmeshes. Like cleaning any other dirty edit. Find all the deleted navmeshes and press "Delete". That will toggle the ignore flag. Then click on Okay to reload your mod. Once reloaded, enter navmesh mode to see that you now have your navmesh and the vanilla navmesh lying on top of each other. Enter triangle mode. Find a triangle in the Vanilla Navmesh. Select "Flood fill" in the tool bar to select the whole orphaned section of vanilla navmesh Grab it and hold "Z" to drag it deep underground. It helps to just have the navmesh visible at this point. I usually drag it reasonably deep to make sure there is no chance that NPCs can make use of it. How far is enough? No idea. The depth of a sizeable mountain is usually what I go for. If you have multiple cells, you may have multiple sections of navmesh to do this with. Save everything. Test in game. This should be the absolute last step when you're happy with your navmesh and plan to make no further changes, otherwise you'll have to do it all over again and deal with multiple orphan deleted navmeshes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerheardt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Where is the "Data" i have to go first? Is it via the creation kit menu at the top (File - Edit - View - World - Navmesh - Character - Gameplay - Help)? Somewhere in the icons ? Somewhere in in Navmesh window that opens when i click the navmesh icon? Afterwards i'm pretty sure i can do the procedure :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aintiarna Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 (edited) Sorry, not used the creation kit for a while since I've been modding Inquisition. With your mod already loaded, go to file->data as if you're opening the mod again. When the tab opens, select your mod, make sure it is set to active, then click on the "Details" button. If you click on the "Type" column in the next window, it should sort it nicely for you and you can scroll down until you see NAVM entries which are the navmesh stuff. Look for a "D" flag to the right of one or more of the entries. click on each of them and press "Delete" (make sure you do all of them). It will prompt you to toggle the ignore flag. Select okay, and proceed with the rest of the instructions above. Edited September 8, 2015 by tirnoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aintiarna Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Just as an aside if you plan on releasing your mod at any point. What I'm describing is called cleaning the mod. It just removes dirty edits and there ideally should be none (no "D" flags) in a good quality mod. So for instance, never delete a vanilla resource. Don't like a rock? Drag it underground or mark it as "initially disabled", never just delete it. Deleted vanilla objects and resources cause conflicts with other mods and other horrible problems. Navmeshes included. TES5Edit if you've not used it before is an excellent tool for cleaning your mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerheardt Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Ok wow! Now i understand everything and i'm actually doing the procedure. I can understand why it may be tha cause of my problem. Thank you so much for your help! I'm quite sure you found my solution. I'll keep you updated. I will finish the procedure then go to sleep. I'll test it tomorrow. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerheardt Posted September 9, 2015 Author Share Posted September 9, 2015 (edited) Update now... You found the solution to 50% of the problem. No Npc is bugging in the area, disappearing or coming back from nowhere. No flying or sinking neither. The farmers are now around the garden, staying there most of the time and farming from time to time. I'll just set a patrol system to have them to farm all day long or i'll set something else for them to do. With your help i learned some tricks for my future mods to avoid conflicts and problems. Thank you so much for your help tirnoney! You'll have a special place in my Credits/Thanks section of my mod when it will be online. :smile: Edited September 9, 2015 by Gerheardt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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