Update on NMM version 0.60 and FAQ

[Blademaster1215]

In response to post #28823949. #28825249 is also a reply to the same post.

chickentastesgood wrote: would updating from the alpha to the beta require me to go through the entire setup procedure?

Dark0ne wrote: No, if you're using the alpha you do not need to uninstall/reinstall mods again.

Awesome, I loved the alpha and it never gave me any problems, I'm glad we're moving on.

Not sure what reasoning people have to give you death threats, but shame on them, you folks do a lot of hard work maintaining the servers that we pay very little for if at all.

[Blademaster1215]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029, #28801234, #28802034, #28802934, #28804459, #28804489, #28804644, #28808129, #28813574, #28818184, #28825404 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Morandone wrote: Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

GothikaGeist wrote: Wasn't the big red warning in the INSTALLER of NMM 0.60.0? You definitely had the chance to avoid this and be informed as to what it does. Regardless, I still think a TES5Edit-type pop-up prompt with a timer should force you to at least acknowledge the fact that 0.60.0 could potentially break your entire setup.

unhot wrote: Well said ... several hours later and all is not as it was and rather than spending some time relaxing in the wasteland I'm off to something else.

Very disappointed.

Annafire33 wrote: I would also like to add, when a product has been relatively stable and trust worthy, you assume warnings like that, are for the worst case, this will almost never happen type of deal. NOT a this will happen thing. I also agree that the warning should have been the first thing to pop up to give people a chance to say, "hey, i'm not gonna do that" instead of locking us into it with no return. I really hope people pay attention to this post that Vyxenne wrote, because it really speaks for the average user who doesn't work on something all day everyday. Its like, if your writing a story, you know exactly whats going on, because you made it and you work with it all the time, so you take short cuts because you figure its obvious whats happening. When in reality, someone will come along and be like, "what?" I'll leave it there.

Behelit79 wrote: Are there seriously still people not knowing that when there's a major change in a program version (0.50.x -> 0.60.x) there will surely be something important to take into account? I understand what you say about trust but, believe me, no offence, the automaton "click, click, clicketty-click" behaviour will surely have sooner or later negative consequences.

phantompally76 wrote: I'm just glad it didn't prompt to update when loading the software itself.

For me (and I can only speak for myself), the issues with the new build are eclipsed by the unremorseful contempt being shown by those responsible for said build towards the growing number of ad-revenue generators who were caught off guard by what they were getting into. Blaming the end-user for one's own poor communication and poor implementation is not the answer.

SabreWalrus wrote: I think this post nails on the head that the more casual people are probably the worst affected. And I'm not trying to use the word casual as an insult. I'm sure there are lots of people who only have the confidence to mod their games because of an amazing tool like NMM. They trust it and maybe aren't as wary as they should be, especially if it's not given them trouble before.

We're all dumbasses for clicking through and going ahead with it even after seeing the message about the uninstalling of our mods, but still. A warning about what the update contained before clicking "yes" would have been very welcome. Lots of people won't go looking on the forums for an explanation of the update if they're not expecting trouble in the first place.

rubenpaca wrote: @ Behelit79 Seriously? I expect major changes from 0.5 to 1.0, from 1.2 to 2.0, or something like that. 0.5 to 0.6 looks like yet another minor beta bugfix.

@ Vyxenne Exactly how I feel. We blindly click on next because we blindly trust.

Behelit79 wrote: @rubenpaca For simple bugfixes they change only the "x" part in the nomenclature (0.50.x -> 0.60.x), as we can see now is 0.60.4 (4 releases with bugfixes in the 0.60 branch). They've always used this long nomenclature cause NMM, as they always say, is still a Beta program.

evegrey21 wrote: This is the reason why I use Mod Organizer :)

NMM's new architecture is similar's to MO's, except better.

As to this big splurg up top, all I have to say: if you've been a member so long and you didn't realize the big beta sticker smacked onto NMM, or the big walls of text underneath every modsite's hot mods showcase, then you can't be helped. NMM 0.60 has been talked about since before NMM 0.50, and at the time, it was going to release in the 0.50 branch. Also guess what? Your game was going to eventually die and you were going to have to rebuild your mod setup anyway (I'm assuming you play a lot of Skyrim), if you aren't used to doing that, then I can't believe you're as such a long time member as you state.

[Siddny]

I lost 3 saves over 2 games going well over 300+ hours because you didn't think to put in an option to keep everything the way it was for the time being, if you had done that everything would be fine right now but you didn't so here we are.

[milkchai]

In response to post #28827054.

Siddny wrote: I lost 3 saves over 2 games going well over 300+ hours because you didn't think to put in an option to keep everything the way it was for the time being, if you had done that everything would be fine right now but you didn't so here we are.

They did - it was called saying no to the update, which I did, lol. Try reading the warning next time...?

[orb1akatsuki]

Wow, people are still at it? Damn people, calm your t**s down, I've also had problems with the latest nmm, all my 255 plugins, 467 mods that were installed are completely messed up because just like with the mass majority, I did not read the pop up text and options regarding the installation and stuff, yet, am I complaining? No, its just a god damn game people, its not like its gonna kill y'all over some mishaps.

 

Cussing, threatening, and death threats? Come on people, you don't like what went wrong, then find another game to play with, better yet, get your fat a****s out of that chair and take a walk in a park or something for a change.

[fallingmammoth99]

In response to post #28799344. #28799979, #28801029, #28801234, #28802034, #28802934, #28804459, #28804489, #28804644, #28808129, #28813574, #28818184, #28825404, #28825654 are all replies on the same post.

Vyxenne wrote:

Dear Dark One:

 

Sometimes, I think it is difficult to see the forest because all the trees are in the way. I just read your post above, and would like to offer you a different perspective- MY perspective as a long-time Nexus fan (I have been using my husband's account for years and only recently established my own Nexus account.)

 

You said you were surprised that so many people just blindly accepted the NMM upgrade. This is because over the years, NMM has been largely stable and trouble-free, and a tremendous help to us in managing our mods- and much more user-friendly than MO. Each upgrade has been an improvement over the previous version, and we have received upgrades quite frequently. In other words, based on years of good releases, we trusted you, your expertise and your "product." Based on that trust, when NMM said an upgrade was available, we didn't think twice: click, click, clicketty-click. The outrage now is largely because you betrayed our trust with NMM 0.6.

 

You said that there were warnings in the new version that should have tipped us off that this upgrade was dangerous (my paraphrasing). You're exactly right: the warnings were IN THE NEW VERSION and came only after it was far too late to back out of the upgrade- our Skyrim was already bricked by the time we got the warnings. As someone posted in the Boo thread, the warnings are on the inside of the can. The only choices at that point were [No] or [Cancel] and manually install all your mods (because NMM has already trashed them) or [Yes] to continue and let NMM *try* to fix your system. Epic fail. The warning should have been BEFORE IT WAS TOO LATE TO BACK OUT AND LEAVE OUR PAINSTAKINGLY-ASSEMBLED AND NURTURED WORKING GAME INSTALLATION INTACT. However, in all fairness, even had I received clear warnings of the impending destruction in time to leave my system intact, I probably would've clicked [YES] anyway because I trusted you and never imagined you folks would unleash something so destructive on your fans and supporters. Only in hindsight did it become clear to me what I should have done. The warning should, at the very least, have been clearer about the imminent destruction and included a strong recommendation to quit NMM now and back up our entire game installation.

 

You said in the Boo thread, sarcastically, "...or you could go here [link] for help" but the "here" is undocumented, not linked to from anywhere that I can find, not returned in a Google search for "Nexus Mod Manager Support" and particularly not conspicuously linked to from within the NMM interface as far as I can see (Of course, I have never needed NMM support before, so I have not searched diligently for a support link within NMM, and based on what it just did to me, there is no way I'm going to open NMM 0.6 ever again in my lifetime.) Especially with a "potentially destructive release" like NMM 0.60 that deliberately destroys our working game installation and *hopes to* reconstruct it but has ZERO revert or undo capability, there should have been before-the-destruction warnings. On a so-called "beta" product (0.60 acted more like a pre-alpha release, but I digress), there should be a conspicuous [sUPPORT] button on the NMM Header. We are merely users. We do not spend all day, every day, dealing with The Nexus and/or Nexus Mod Manager. How are we supposed to know about hidden "support" forums when they are not conspicuously linked to from Nexus mod pages and/or the Nexus Forums pages, and not returned in Google searches using the logical search terms?

 

You seem to be complaining that nobody read the "Site News." Where is that? Even when you mentioned it in your post here, you did not provide a link to it. There is no [sITE NEWS] button on this page's header frame, nor is there a "Site News" sticky at http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?. Again, we don't spend all day every day here, and don't know where to go for what unless someone who DOES spend all day every day here helps us by providing conspicuous links.

 

So, half a day after the rogue NMM update acted like malware and destroyed my Skyrim installation with no way to opt out of it until it was already too late and no revert or undo function whatsoever, I STILL do not know how to reach the alleged page that details a recovery process. All I know for sure is that you think these things should be obvious to your users and supporters- but they are not only not obvious, they seem to have been hidden by design- otherwise there would be conspicuous links to them everywhere on the Nexus.

 

Hope this helps clear up some of your bafflement regarding the reasons for the uproar, confusion and outrage resulting from the NMM 0.6 disaster. I, personally, feel blindsided and betrayed by an old friend. It would really be great if you could stop developing NMM for a few days and write a recovery tool to help those of us whose games you trashed revert to the pre-NMM 0.60 condition.

Zettadude wrote: This deserves attention. Exactly how I feel.

Though I'm not completely angry, nor am I going to stop using NMM 0.6, I feel like you summed up what a lot of people are feeling here, including me. Thank you for wording it in a way that is not only attention-grabbing, but also informative.

toonamove wrote: I agreed totally with you and your words and feelings.

Yes a "recovery tool" can be really useful for fixing and helping everyone have their game mess up after the last NMM version update.

I can suggest to adding on the future versions a button for "importing" old NMM versions settings and mods dirs with another button for converting to the new NMM system after have imported users configs, but without touching games dirs or uninstalling mods.

Also adding a automatic backup system before the new installed version is started or starting to made any kind of changes, sounds very necessary, for avoid this kind of mess for everyone, and preserve every users modded games.

Toonamove

Morandone wrote: Yup, my feeelings exactly. Trying to put my old Mods back in the corrupted install. Wipe out all the hardlinks first (or whatever they're called) just to be able to write the data of the wiped out mods back, because explorer hangs when trying to replace them.

A warning for backing up the Skyrim-install befor installing NMM would have been nice and helpful.

GothikaGeist wrote: Wasn't the big red warning in the INSTALLER of NMM 0.60.0? You definitely had the chance to avoid this and be informed as to what it does. Regardless, I still think a TES5Edit-type pop-up prompt with a timer should force you to at least acknowledge the fact that 0.60.0 could potentially break your entire setup.

unhot wrote: Well said ... several hours later and all is not as it was and rather than spending some time relaxing in the wasteland I'm off to something else.

Very disappointed.

Annafire33 wrote: I would also like to add, when a product has been relatively stable and trust worthy, you assume warnings like that, are for the worst case, this will almost never happen type of deal. NOT a this will happen thing. I also agree that the warning should have been the first thing to pop up to give people a chance to say, "hey, i'm not gonna do that" instead of locking us into it with no return. I really hope people pay attention to this post that Vyxenne wrote, because it really speaks for the average user who doesn't work on something all day everyday. Its like, if your writing a story, you know exactly whats going on, because you made it and you work with it all the time, so you take short cuts because you figure its obvious whats happening. When in reality, someone will come along and be like, "what?" I'll leave it there.

Behelit79 wrote: Are there seriously still people not knowing that when there's a major change in a program version (0.50.x -> 0.60.x) there will surely be something important to take into account? I understand what you say about trust but, believe me, no offence, the automaton "click, click, clicketty-click" behaviour will surely have sooner or later negative consequences.

phantompally76 wrote: I'm just glad it didn't prompt to update when loading the software itself.

For me (and I can only speak for myself), the issues with the new build are eclipsed by the unremorseful contempt being shown by those responsible for said build towards the growing number of ad-revenue generators who were caught off guard by what they were getting into. Blaming the end-user for one's own poor communication and poor implementation is not the answer.

SabreWalrus wrote: I think this post nails on the head that the more casual people are probably the worst affected. And I'm not trying to use the word casual as an insult. I'm sure there are lots of people who only have the confidence to mod their games because of an amazing tool like NMM. They trust it and maybe aren't as wary as they should be, especially if it's not given them trouble before.

We're all dumbasses for clicking through and going ahead with it even after seeing the message about the uninstalling of our mods, but still. A warning about what the update contained before clicking "yes" would have been very welcome. Lots of people won't go looking on the forums for an explanation of the update if they're not expecting trouble in the first place.

rubenpaca wrote: @ Behelit79 Seriously? I expect major changes from 0.5 to 1.0, from 1.2 to 2.0, or something like that. 0.5 to 0.6 looks like yet another minor beta bugfix.

@ Vyxenne Exactly how I feel. We blindly click on next because we blindly trust.

Behelit79 wrote: @rubenpaca For simple bugfixes they change only the "x" part in the nomenclature (0.50.x -> 0.60.x), as we can see now is 0.60.4 (4 releases with bugfixes in the 0.60 branch). They've always used this long nomenclature cause NMM, as they always say, is still a Beta program.

evegrey21 wrote: This is the reason why I use Mod Organizer :)

Blademaster1215 wrote: NMM's new architecture is similar's to MO's, except better.

As to this big splurg up top, all I have to say: if you've been a member so long and you didn't realize the big beta sticker smacked onto NMM, or the big walls of text underneath every modsite's hot mods showcase, then you can't be helped. NMM 0.60 has been talked about since before NMM 0.50, and at the time, it was going to release in the 0.50 branch. Also guess what? Your game was going to eventually die and you were going to have to rebuild your mod setup anyway (I'm assuming you play a lot of Skyrim), if you aren't used to doing that, then I can't believe you're as such a long time member as you state.

You have managed to sum up exactly how I feel, and with out being a complete jerk\idiot about it. I felt a bit better after reading it. I also seem to have lost all of my Skyrim game.... I hope the Nexus crew makes an effort in compensation for this mass extinction of saved files, downloaded mods, and a trusting fan-base. Needless to say, i am highly disappointed.

[xRoxel]

In response to post #28827054. #28827244 is also a reply to the same post.

Siddny wrote: I lost 3 saves over 2 games going well over 300+ hours because you didn't think to put in an option to keep everything the way it was for the time being, if you had done that everything would be fine right now but you didn't so here we are.

Kintsy wrote: They did - it was called saying no to the update, which I did, lol. Try reading the warning next time...?

You can quite easily revert to get those back...

[MDeckman]

In response to post #28828379.

orb1akatsuki wrote: Wow, people are still at it? Damn people, calm your t**s down, I've also had problems with the latest nmm, all my 255 plugins, 467 mods that were installed are completely messed up because just like with the mass majority, I did not read the pop up text and options regarding the installation and stuff, yet, am I complaining? No, its just a god damn game people, its not like its gonna kill y'all over some mishaps.

Cussing, threatening, and death threats? Come on people, you don't like what went wrong, then find another game to play with, better yet, get your fat a****s out of that chair and take a walk in a park or something for a change.

Exactly my feelings. I'm used to reinstalls because of something grossly screwing up. I have time and i'm prepared for it.

After all, it's just a game.

[MDeckman]

In response to post #28827054. #28827244, #28828699 are all replies on the same post.

Siddny wrote: I lost 3 saves over 2 games going well over 300+ hours because you didn't think to put in an option to keep everything the way it was for the time being, if you had done that everything would be fine right now but you didn't so here we are.

Kintsy wrote: They did - it was called saying no to the update, which I did, lol. Try reading the warning next time...?

xRoxel wrote: You can quite easily revert to get those back...

I backed up my saves and mods, knowing that there was a chance my entire installation could go belly. it's your own fault you didn't back anything up. They even gave warnings...excessive warnings and you still ignored it all.

Serves you right.

[Cylon123]

This post made me realize that NexusMods is filled with idiots. If admins released an update, and it messed my game, i would NEVER blame them.Even if i had to reinstall all the mods for 3 days straight, i'd be cool with it, they invested/ and are still investing so much time in making this site and program more useful, and all you people do is b!tch about it.

I think 20% of you people read the warning and said:"Whatever, its a new update i have to install it"

and 50 % just went with it without even reading it and 30 % read it and saw the potential dangers for them and declined (like me).

Whats even better is that people with 400+ mods aren't pissed, they will just silently reinstall all the mods, but people with 100- mods are outraged by this and are instantly sending death threats to good people at NexusMods.

 

Think about what i just wrote and stop flaming admins because of spilled milk.