What's wrong with NMM.

[stephanos57]

Hi, I have previously posted about rebuilding mods on re installed Oblivion.

 

I just wanted to "defend" NMM as I am still seeing many negative comments.

 

I sucessfully re installed all of my original mods using just NMM.

 

I am running Oblivion with 195 active plugins, the vast number of which were added using NMM with only a few being downloaded manually.

 

The mods cover a wide time span and some pre date NMM.

 

i have experienced a few problems, admittedly, but these have been easily resolved.

 

I find NMM very easy to use and have gasped at the apparently complicated operating instructions posted to use eg: OBMM or WYREBASH for adding mods.l

 

Each to their own and this is not intended as a moan but is just a note to say that, as far as I am concerned, simple & easy works fine for me.

 

 

[Striker879]

In my opinion (which I admit isn't a very well informed one as I've never laid eyes on NMM) the key to being able to make NMM work for any mod is having a good knowledge of how the game expects to find a mod's files and folders arranged. For simple mods that use a straight forward folder structure and don't have folders that contain optional/alternate files I'm sure that NMM can do fine. It will probably even do fine on mods that do have optional/alternate folders provided there is a standard format structure for the "normal" installation that conforms to the game's folder structure (for replacer mods) or for the mod's own default installation.

 

There are mods however that use folder structure that can only be understood by either their own installation script (body replacers that use a Common folder containing subfolders for hands and feet for example, as seen in the pre-NMM version of HG EyeCandy Body) or using the BAIN style folder structure for optional/alternate features (mods that have multiple 01, 02, 03 etc. level folders ... DMRA BBB Complete Clothing and Armor Replacer is a good though rather extreme example of what I mean here). People who are experienced mod installers (and by that I mean those who could easily install either of those examples manually using simple copy/paste methods) would be able to restructure any mod that NMM couldn't understand and then use NMM to install their restructured and then re-archived installation folders (assuming that NMM doesn't deal well with just loose files and folders, which may or may not be the case).

 

Unfortunately many of the people using NMM don't fit into that category (experienced at manually installing mods). Often if pushing the big green Download with Manager button doesn't work they either come looking for help or in the worst cases claim that the mod is defective. It's hard to point out to them in an acceptable way that only their modding skills are lacking.

 

I remember what it was like getting started. Like most people I wanted it all, and I wanted it all on day one. Back in the days before NMM there were three ways to install mods ... OBMM, Wrye Bash's BAIN or manually. Manually and Wrye were far too complicated and jargon filled for me on day one, even OBMM wasn't a treat but at least it understood it's own OMOD format. That got version 1.11 of HGEC Body with BBB v1dot12 and then NoMaaM BBB Animation Replacer installed and working and gave me my start at learning to install mods.

 

I don't normally respond to posts like this as they are only opinions, and you know what opinions are like (and everyone has one of those too). I do take umbrage to the "seeing many negative comments" part, but that is more rooted in why I try to help out on here and my own personal opinions than your choice of words. Spend a year or two trying to get those I've called the "Push the big green button" crowd up to speed and perhaps you won't be so quick to make leading claims about what could possibly work for others.

 

I only know one thing for certain. What works for me isn't going to work for everybody ... every individual requires what works for them. The challenge when trying to help is to help them discover what that is so that they can help themselves.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Striker879

[Surilindur]

Also Mod Organizer. I use it myself, and love it, but to make it work with mods targeted at different managers, there is a lot of work to do. First, downloading each and every mod and file manually. If it is a ready packed OMOD file, I need to use OBMM to unpack it. Then, the mod needs to be manually restructured (meaning "manually installed" in a separate folder just for that mod) and added to Mod Organizer. And even then there is stuff the 'push the green button' people would need to be aware of, like how MO actually works, that MO cannot add OBSE plugins to the virtual file system, what happens if you have an ini file of an OBSE plugin both MO and the game folder, where your ini files and saves are located, how to use the different utilities through MO, etc.

 

But I just love Mod Organizer. It takes time, it takes more knowledge of how stuff actually works, and it will take patience when running into unexpected issues. So, to add to the variety of opinions, I myself would recommend Mod Organizer. Some have had issues trying to make it work, but it has served me just fine for quite some time. Now I use OBMM for only unpacking OMODs and creating/extracting BSA archives, Wrye Bash for load order, savegame management and Bashed Patch, and MO for installing mods. Plus the usual stuff like TES4LODGen and Construction Set (Extender) through Mod Organizer, to benefit from the virtual file system. And my game folders are pretty clean, except for the main folder and OBSE folders.

 

But if I ran into a total noob, I would recommend Wrye Bash. Maybe also OBMM, though I absolutely dislike it myself, so maybe just Wrye Bash. It is enough to learn how to use the few utilities there are, and I doubt many people are willing to spend dozens - or hunders - of hours trying to learn how stuff works so they can mod their games the right way. If using the utilities the mods have been designed for is the easiest way to get the game running, they probably want to know that one, and not a heap of other stuff they possibly find too difficult or irrelevant. :tongue:

 

But hey, to each his (or her) own. Whatever works for you, works for you. That is brilliant! Now you can actually play the game, too. :dance:

 

And just for the record, I have never even looked at any NMM videos, so I have totally no idea what even the UI looks like. :whistling:

 

Edit: Fixed a typo.

Edited October 29, 2015 by PhilippePetain

[stephanos57]

Thanks to PhilippePetain and Striker879 for your informed comments.

I've found modding my original Oblivion a great learning experience as I'm in no way 100% savvy about the many and complex elements involved in this process.

 

i encourage folk to take on the challenge as it ultimately showcases the talents of the large nuber of dedicated people willing to enhance a great gaming experience.

 

I just wish to inform people that NMM does provide a "quick" way to start adding excellent mods as a starting point.

 

I haven't, but many people will, maybe, graduate to other managers to enable the correct installation of some mods unuseable with NMM.

 

Finally, I totally endorse the huge amount of assistance provided by modders etc on the forums which shows, to me at least, that the modding community is generally very supportive of those of us less tech savvy.

[shinobi2008]

Well the problem with NMM is that it is basically all purpose Nexus Mod Manager for all games here at Nexus. Wrye Bash on the other hand was created exclusively for modding Oblivion. As a matter of fact it was created to get all the major overhauls to work well together at that time i.e Francesco, OOO and MMM. It gradually developed into a must have tool for many of us who have extensive list of mods installed. NMM does not offer anything like bashed patch that Wrye Bash offers as well as the amazing anneal feature. For people who only have few mods, it's probably okay to use NMM or OBMM or any variants of it.

 

If however, you decide to delete one of the mods which happens to be a texture replacer for vanilla. Unless you keep track of which files are replaced previously, I bet you money that you would have hard time tracking down the original files. This is based on my previous experience when I used to stick with OBMM. By the way OBMM is the big brother of NMM if you don't know what that is. So basically for many of the Oblivion mods, it is recommended to use Wrye Bash or OBMM or together if necessary. For Skyrim and other games, NMM is probably a wonderful tool. You don't have to agree to what I wrote here. This is my opinion based on what I experienced many years ago and your opinion may differ and that's okay too. :)