Realism 4 the better

[Guest]

It is often said "if everything was perfect, it would be boring", but seeing as perfection is the absolute of all that is positive, with out ANY trace of negative... boredom obviously isnt a hallmark of perfection. So if everything was indeed 'perfect', would we really be bored?

This is not a deep philosophical question but only a simple semantical question on the meaning of the word perfect. Any system so analyzed contains a great number of dimensions which can be rated, but not all possible sets of values are legal states of the system. In other words the perfect state of the system is not a combination of the perfect states of every aspect of the system, because that is not a valid for the system to occupy. Since perfection implies a single dimensional maximum and you are referring to a multidimensional system, one would have to assume the application of some sort of value function (representing what you consider to be desirable) to convert the multidimensional state into a single dimension value that you care about and can then be "perfectly" maximized. Since avoiding boredom is an extremely important dimension it stands to reason that any perfect state would probably not be particularly boring. If you are thinking, "but I was talking about 'realistic' states, perfection is never realistic, I was talking about the hypothetical best", I must respond that your choice of system is irrelevant, and realistic is only a measure of whether or not a concept is within the bounds of a whatever system you are considering realistic. Whether the system has arbitrary bounds (random example: you can't fly without wings, or a jet pack, or something) or not (you can do whatever you want) does not affect the fact that some things are simply not conceivable. I state the example: "What happens if an unstoppable object hits an unmovable object"; with the answer being that both cannot exist in the same universe (or more formally stated an object which can occupy any point in space cannot exist together with a space that no other object can occupy).

 

As for realism in video games -- it's like chocolate. While it is possible to have to much of it, it's extremely difficult (there are a few games that remind me of the morning after Halloween). Where the cut-off point is is a personal preference. Ultimately it comes down to the purpose of the game being immersive entertainment, and realism definitely adds to the immersive feel of a game. Realism should therefore only be avoided when it detracts from the entertainment value of the game. If your entertainment is achieved by running around chopping the heads off of naked women, but you get frustrated when you get thrown in jail for this activity, then clearly it's graphic mods you're looking for -- and nothing that makes the NPC AI more realistic.

 

If Oblivion can be combined with the Sims, the result would be the ausomest thing since sliced bread. No amount of realism will ever make Oblivion not a completely different universe into which you are escaping as you play the game. There is magic. Even if someone is able to write a Schroedinger equation (or create new rules for constructing the Hamiltonians) which allows for a completely and totally consistent Oblivion universe, that doesn't change the fact that that universe would not remotely resemble the one in which we live. I think the challenge of having to kill someone in such a way that no one could deduce that I did it is much more fun than the "challenge" of killing someone while no one else is watching. I would also really appreciate it if the bandits were smart enough to retreat, regroup, and get reinforcements when I attack two or three of them, instead of chasing me back to town where the guards slaughter them and letting me go back and do the same thing to the rest of their group.

 

Clearly as Ninja Lord points out though, most people don't want the level of realism that I do. Yes, I downloaded the naked women mod, but I'm honestly disappointed that guys have undergarments but girls don't. I'm sorry but all of these double D women need a brazier of some sort far more than the guys need underwear. I mean, at least Ken has a bump there right? Oblivion comes with an enormous myriad of clothes, it's like a digital medieval Barbie, but for not wanting to appear to profane the Bethesda version stops at undergarments. Not that I'm complaining about Bethesda, they have a game to sell, and would like to have a good reputation for the next game they sell -- I just honestly can't understand why people would choose to have all women without undergarments over having control over what and if any player character or corpse is wearing undergarments.

 

I'm having trouble resisting the urge to rant, as Ninja Lord's opinions are completely invalid, but I can't objectively prove that, and it seems that the vast majority of peoples are in agreement with Ninja Lord (I choose to assume that my opinions are inherently better). Anyway, that's my wisdom (or insanity) relating to the topic.

[Switch]

Marcus' post removed... spammy and unhelpful. I'll leave your post here for now anadverb in case you decide to edit in something relevant to the topic. ;)

 

EDIT: Removed your other one too. Don't just repost the same stuff I deleted. Sigh. Anadverb is on topic now anyway.

[Marcus Wolfe]

Must we get so off topic? We were talking about children, having them and raising them to be sadistic little bastards (hehehehe, Ninjalord's response would definitly have included something like that) Of course, if you can have kids, why not a dog? Better yet, make several breeds of dogs for different purposes. Have a Guard dog breed, a vicious attack dog breed, a hunting breed that tracks downwild animals (and may retrieve them if they are small enough). Man, that would take so much coding.......Well I gotta go!!

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Listen to Heavy Metal and the Grunge Gods will thank you

[ThomasCovenant]

It is often said "if everything was perfect, it would be boring", but seeing as perfection is the absolute of all that is positive, with out ANY trace of negative... boredom obviously isnt a hallmark of perfection. So if everything was indeed 'perfect', would we really be bored?

This is not a deep philosophical question but only a simple semantical question on the meaning of the word perfect. Any system so analyzed contains a great number of dimensions which can be rated, but not all possible sets of values are legal states of the system. In other words the perfect state of the system is not a combination of the perfect states of every aspect of the system, because that is not a valid for the system to occupy. Since perfection implies a single dimensional maximum and you are referring to a multidimensional system, one would have to assume the application of some sort of value function (representing what you consider to be desirable) to convert the multidimensional state into a single dimension value that you care about and can then be "perfectly" maximized. Since avoiding boredom is an extremely important dimension it stands to reason that any perfect state would probably not be particularly boring. If you are thinking, "but I was talking about 'realistic' states, perfection is never realistic, I was talking about the hypothetical best", I must respond that your choice of system is irrelevant, and realistic is only a measure of whether or not a concept is within the bounds of a whatever system you are considering realistic. Whether the system has arbitrary bounds (random example: you can't fly without wings, or a jet pack, or something) or not (you can do whatever you want) does not affect the fact that some things are simply not conceivable. I state the example: "What happens if an unstoppable object hits an unmovable object"; with the answer being that both cannot exist in the same universe (or more formally stated an object which can occupy any point in space cannot exist together with a space that no other object can occupy).

 

As for realism in video games -- it's like chocolate. While it is possible to have to much of it, it's extremely difficult (there are a few games that remind me of the morning after Halloween). Where the cut-off point is is a personal preference. Ultimately it comes down to the purpose of the game being immersive entertainment, and realism definitely adds to the immersive feel of a game. Realism should therefore only be avoided when it detracts from the entertainment value of the game. If your entertainment is achieved by running around chopping the heads off of naked women, but you get frustrated when you get thrown in jail for this activity, then clearly it's graphic mods you're looking for -- and nothing that makes the NPC AI more realistic.

 

If Oblivion can be combined with the Sims, the result would be the ausomest thing since sliced bread. No amount of realism will ever make Oblivion not a completely different universe into which you are escaping as you play the game. There is magic. Even if someone is able to write a Schroedinger equation (or create new rules for constructing the Hamiltonians) which allows for a completely and totally consistent Oblivion universe, that doesn't change the fact that that universe would not remotely resemble the one in which we live. I think the challenge of having to kill someone in such a way that no one could deduce that I did it is much more fun than the "challenge" of killing someone while no one else is watching. I would also really appreciate it if the bandits were smart enough to retreat, regroup, and get reinforcements when I attack two or three of them, instead of chasing me back to town where the guards slaughter them and letting me go back and do the same thing to the rest of their group.

 

Clearly as Ninja Lord points out though, most people don't want the level of realism that I do. Yes, I downloaded the naked women mod, but I'm honestly disappointed that guys have undergarments but girls don't. I'm sorry but all of these double D women need a brazier of some sort far more than the guys need underwear. I mean, at least Ken has a bump there right? Oblivion comes with an enormous myriad of clothes, it's like a digital medieval Barbie, but for not wanting to appear to profane the Bethesda version stops at undergarments. Not that I'm complaining about Bethesda, they have a game to sell, and would like to have a good reputation for the next game they sell -- I just honestly can't understand why people would choose to have all women without undergarments over having control over what and if any player character or corpse is wearing undergarments.

 

I'm having trouble resisting the urge to rant, as Ninja Lord's opinions are completely invalid, but I can't objectively prove that, and it seems that the vast majority of peoples are in agreement with Ninja Lord (I choose to assume that my opinions are inherently better). Anyway, that's my wisdom (or insanity) relating to the topic.

anadverb. are you sure that you couldn't have written this out in Calculus?

[ninja_lord666]

It is often said "if everything was perfect, it would be boring", but seeing as perfection is the absolute of all that is positive, with out ANY trace of negative... boredom obviously isnt a hallmark of perfection. So if everything was indeed 'perfect', would we really be bored?

<this post has been edited to be easier on the eyes>

I disagree

anadverb. are you sure that you couldn't have written this out in Calculus?

Yeah, really, do you honestly believe anyone to read all that? Couldn't you have just said you disagreed and gave a few examples, not write a book about it?

[Kittie Rose]

I thought it has been stated many times: realism is NOT good.

Now to rip appart your post:

 

Oh come on. Why do you need to rip his post apart? He's not making an argument against gay marriage or something like that that actually needs to be ripped apart.

 

1. This would be too difficult. Not EVERY npc would feel the same way. If you were walking around in your high class clothes strutting past a begger, he deffinately wouldn't be impressed. He would be angry. He would despise you for so rudely flaunting your wealth in front of him. Also, the rich wouldn't be impressed either. They would feel in different. Why should they be impressed when they're wearing the same thing?

 

What? Morrowind already had this. I kind of miss these touches they removed quite a few of them in Oblivion.

[Marcus Wolfe]

I thought it has been stated many times: realism is NOT good.

Now to rip appart your post:

 

Oh come on. Why do you need to rip his post apart? He's not making an argument against gay marriage or something like that that actually needs to be ripped apart.

 

1. This would be too difficult. Not EVERY npc would feel the same way. If you were walking around in your high class clothes strutting past a begger, he deffinately wouldn't be impressed. He would be angry. He would despise you for so rudely flaunting your wealth in front of him. Also, the rich wouldn't be impressed either. They would feel in different. Why should they be impressed when they're wearing the same thing?

 

What? Morrowind already had this. I kind of miss these touches they removed quite a few of them in Oblivion.

WOAHWOAHWOAH

Get with the times Kitty girl! that's reeeeeeal old now. we prefer you talk abou the new stuff,like having different breeds of dogs for different purposes. hint hint

Check out my weps and armor post!!

[Abramul]

WOAHWOAHWOAH

Get with the times Kitty girl! that's reeeeeeal old now. we prefer you talk abou the new stuff,like having different breeds of dogs for different purposes. hint hint

Check out my weps and armor post!!

You mean the one in which you request a type of weapon that was present in vanilla Morrowind, but can't even be implemented in Oblivion?

(Incidentally, it defeats the purpose of having a mod request forum. Therefore, I won't be posting in it, even though, for instance, I know of a mod that adds sickles.)

[Marcus Wolfe]

WOAHWOAHWOAH

Get with the times Kitty girl! that's reeeeeeal old now. we prefer you talk abou the new stuff,like having different breeds of dogs for different purposes. hint hint

Check out my weps and armor post!!

You mean the one in which you request a type of weapon that was present in vanilla Morrowind, but can't even be implemented in Oblivion?

(Incidentally, it defeats the purpose of having a mod request forum. Therefore, I won't be posting in it, even though, for instance, I know of a mod that adds sickles.)

Diss the wepons post on the weapons post geez

Back to the dogs thing: Guard/attack breed would probably mean pitbull or rotweiler

The hunting breed would be something that not only tracks the animal, but brings it back to you if it was killed by a bow (this would only work on birds or something....presumming a game birds mod was ever made

NEW toy breeds would be just for show, like a poodle or something

New and whatif you could actually breed the dogs yourself or something

Somebody get the guy behind Cheydinhal petstore to this post.