Crime and Punishment Overhaul Mod

[Slade37]

I personally love the ideas!

[Kazuya482]

Just one question. Public execution/beheading(s)?

[Madrias]

Just one question. Public execution/beheading(s)?

Personally, I'd love to see this for a bounty-hunter playthrough. Seeing the bandits you bring in get punished would be perfect. It'd both add life to the world (Ironically, by adding death to the world at the same time), and add a sense of productivity. Walking into Solitude and seeing the bandits you brought in a few days ago are now standing in a row, each being executed one after another, I think it'd add a reason to take bandits back alive. Even better if you get paid more for bringing bandits in alive, rather than outright killing them.

 

For the player, though, I personally think it's foolish. Sure, it's very realistic, that if you ran around and murdered entire villages, you should be killed, but it just sends you to the "Load a Save, or Start a New Game" screen. Which, I suppose if you wanted to kill off a character and start a new game, that would be a fitting way to go, but I think I can speak for the majority that reloading your last known good save is a bit boring. Plus, if player execution was a thing, and it couldn't be turned off, I'm sure a lot of people would skip the mod, even if it had features they really liked.

 

Then again, that's an idea. Have player execution disabled by default, and a warning when turning it on that your player could be killed as a result of their actions. Also that if you're playing with Death Alternative, it's probably not going to be compatible.

[Slade37]

You know, a thought just occurred to me. In the main quest line the character goes to sovengard, so he has already walked among the dead. What if execution didn't have to be the end? What if the character were sent to sovengard, and maybe there he would go on a quest to return to the land of the living?

[drewsbrew]

Whew, OK, sorry about the delayed response but there was a lot to read and I'm spread kind thin right now; working on video projects for two YouTube channels, drawing concept art for my own purposes and concept (exibit A, exibit B, with more on the way) art for the Beyond Skyrim (Cyrodiil) team, learning how to script, learning more about 3D modeling, and about a half dozen other things... anyway...

 

Madrias,

If you haven't already, and you're willing to do so, I'd like for you to check out my post about the reputation system (also in my signature). I've never designed anything like this before, so I'd like as much input as I can get. I think a lot of your ideas you talked about are already going to be a part of the system I outlined.

 

As far as your concerns about the trials by combat not having the desired effect, I agree completely. In addition, I planed on having each hold have its own champion, and if the player managed to kill the champion once, who would be there for to represent the hold in all future trials by combat? I would have to create lots of 'champion' NPCs and all things considered I think it would be best to have just one for each hold. Also, lots of people seem to think Ulfric was wrong for challenging King Torreg, but some insist it is 'the old way' and 'tradition', etc. So in a sense it might not make sense to have trials by combat that are actually to the death... having said that it might be interesting to have that change based on who controls the hold; the Stormcloaks, or the Imperials... though if I do that then I am back to the same problem of having to create a lot of 'champion NPCs', and I also want to make Ulfric himself the champion of Windhelm... having that TBC go to the death is problematic for a number of reasons. Anyway, on the whole, still thinking about this one. What I'll probably do is have this be a togleable option in the MCM menu o something.

I'll add that for this (and for public executions) I may use Slade37's Sovengard idea...

 

I also agree that Skyrim jails do suck, and would like to redesign all of them to varying extents; fairly minor tweaks and adjustments to some, with total overhauls to others.

 

I also love a lot of your ideas, i.e.; the more severe form of public punishment, a temporary banishment from holds in extreme cases, notoriety having an impact on prison life as well, and having a torture chamber added to jails... and being tortured when captured by enemy soldiers! I will definitely use those, and don't worry, there will absolutely be other NPCs committing crimes/going through the system besides just the player... in fact...

 

*spoiler start*

When the player enters Whiterun for the first time, I want them to immedietly see NPCs in a stockade (probably outside the guard barracks) being pelted by produce and being able to join in.

*spoiler end*

 

I like the idea of work in prison, more specifically having different jobs in prison, which allows you to do different favors for different people— however it may be immersion breaking in the sense that when you go to jail in Markarth you are told ‘some prisons may allow you to sit around, but here you work’.

-love the ‘foul brew alcohol’ idea, will definitely use it.

 

Some crimes (like murder, or attempting to assassinate the Emperor) probably won’t have an option to simply pay a fine at all, unless you are a thane or something, having said that though I do like your numbers that you came up with for the fines.

 

 

Just one question. Public execution/beheading(s)?

 

Yes.. there will certainly be more NPCs who will be executed, and I think I will have this as an MCM option for the player. If you choose not to be subject to public executions yourself, there will be a built in reason for why that is so as to not break immersion... for example; because you are Dragonborn and saving the world a hold will not execute you when they otherwise would if it were anyone else, which is one area where I think Madrias's idea of having a banishment period comes in nicely.

 

 

You know, a thought just occurred to me. In the main quest line the character goes to sovengard, so he has already walked among the dead. What if execution didn't have to be the end? What if the character were sent to sovengard, and maybe there he would go on a quest to return to the land of the living?

 

As I said earlier, I really like this idea, not sure if I'll use it or not but I will definitely think about it.

Edited June 20, 2016 by drewsbrew

[Madrias]

...jail in Markarth you are told ‘some prisons may allow you to sit around, but here you work’...

 

I don't see it as lore-breaking. I don't think it was ever exclusively mentioned as Skyrim's prisons, and if I remember Oblivion well enough, all you did was sit around in prison. Could read it as a reference, then, to the fact that in Skyrim's prisons, you'll work, while in Cyrodiil, you sit and grow old.

 

And yes, I'm working on your requested look at the reputation system, and unfortunately, despite my best efforts at keeping it short, it's gotten lengthy again. Suffice it to say, I've got ideas, but the core seems good so far.

[Slade37]

As for the markarth reference.... I personally always saw the silverblood family as prideful anyways. That remark could just be written off as them thinking their better than all the other prisons around the world. There could be a small storyline added to that as a sort of competition where the prisoner suffers a great deal more at markarth because their prime motive would be to break the prisoners spirits with demands that cant be fulfilled, and severe punishments for falling short. Also I had a second idea (small idea) but I want to say all the same. What if you removed the option to use the bed, or to pass time by while in Jail. One thing that bothers me about skyrim prison is that you can simply pass the time by to speed along the process, but in the new system, you would only be able to rest to pass time by if the guard allows it, and only to the duration that the guard allows. Just a couple ideas I wanted to throw out there. ..... Or, you could keep the sleep ability, but if you attempted to, and they didn't allow it, you buy yourself additional prison time, and more punishments.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Slade37

[drewsbrew]

Here is a random thought... what if doing jobs in prison was optional, something you could do to lessen your sentence...

 

And a second idea, what if it was something that the guards had to trust you enough to let you do in the first place, in other words you have to build up your reputation as a 'good inmate' trying to reform themselves...

[Madrias]

That... That is a really great idea, Drew. (You don't mind if I call you that, right?)

 

There was a mod I tried forever ago, can't remember the name of it, but it basically made all the prisons irrelevant, sent you to one main prison like the old Oblivion system, but you had to work to get out faster. Thought it was decent, but always wished it'd have left the default prisons alone and used them instead of making them just something to look at when you needed to do quests.

 

So, as you said, the idea of needing to build up your trust with the guards, just to be able to get these jobs, just to shave a bit of time off of your sentence, I think that'd be awesome. It'd mean that prison isn't just working, it's full interactions.

 

Essentially, trying to get on the guards' good side would just about put you on the bad side of some of the Inmates, but if you managed, your stay would be much faster.

 

And I just had an idea for that, a little risk-versus-reward:

 

Guards forget prisoners each time you leave (your trust is reset each time, thereby when returning, you have to go through this all over again), but inmates never forget. Why? Because they've got nothing better to do than remember that the Dragonborn was a slime-ball who cozied up to the guards to get out a couple weeks early. So the next time you return to that prison, the guards don't care that you were the ideal inmate the last time, as it's in the past and you're here, now, all over again. The inmates, however, remember how you basically told them, "No, I don't want to help you make skooma in the back of your cell," and "Are you crazy?! No, I'm not going to bring you a weapon," and they'll use that as an excuse to make your second (or third, or fourth, etc...) time to prison just that little bit worse, until you're nearly forced to do things to get on their good side because of some random event ideas I just thought of.

 

Oh, Dagon, I'm doing it again...

 

Random Events:

 

We already know Skyrim supports these, I've played mods that I think can break you out of the sleep sequence a couple hours early, and if you're on a fixed sleep schedule, and you model some form of prison stamina multiplier where working requires stamina to keep doing a task, and it only regenerates when sleeping, being woken up is the worst thing that can happen.

 

So, a few ideas on what could be done as a forced wake-up:

- Shanked. Your reputation with the inmate population has fallen so dramatically that the only course of action they can think of is to try to kill you. Obviously, that inmate fails at killing you, and the guards react (they have to, a dead prisoner means paperwork and a loss of revenue for the prison.) by punishing both you and the inmate. (Takes two to tango, and obviously you did something to offend this guy, so you're getting punished.) Both of you get solitary confinement, which means your stay has gotten longer (a prison punishment for breaking rules) and you're unable to work it off.

- Midnight Skooma Deal. Your cellmate has just offered to trade you Skooma for (insert object you're carrying). Accept, the trade is completed, and you're free to go back to bed. Decline, and your reputation as a nasty goody-two-shoes goes up.

- Drugged. You refused a skooma deal one time too many, so your cellmate just made sure you're three-sails-to-the-wind with skooma, then called the guard.

 

Obviously, these events shouldn't happen so often that you can't sleep, and should only be triggered by low-inmate-reputation, starting with skooma deals and progressing through drugging to being shanked. The idea being that the skooma deal would be an early warning, and an easy way to settle your inmate reputation back to where it should be over time.

 

And because of that, I got another idea, making Skooma and Foul Brew useful to the player as more than trading commodities: They help you sleep, provided you don't over-do it. Skooma is highly addictive, but works very strongly, and might be used in the event that Foul Brew doesn't have the effect anymore. Alcohol, of any sort, helps you get to sleep, provided you haven't become dependant on it to sleep.

 

And yes, I said 'of any sort,' thereby implying that the guards may have mead or wine available if you're willing to steal it.

[Slade37]

You could always set it so there is mandatory jobs that you have to do, or be punished severely for refusing of course, and then add in extra jobs to go along with your idea. Then again, an expanded idea is that if you earn favor with the guards, you wont have to do the mandatory jobs anymore, therefor angering the other inmates who have to pick up the slack for what you no longer have to do. Perhaps one of your new jobs, to earn favor, is to keep the other inmates in line. Basically, you order them around, and make sure they do the work. I also had another idea though, involving skooma. Because it is so addicting, say that once you do it the one time, your body reacts to it, and you almost cant live without it. There could be a lot of potential with being a skooma addict. The player could suffer many negative consequences that can only be offset by the further use of skooma. That would be made even more interesting if the players condition worsened the more they take it, that their temporary cure will be no more. The player could become paranoid for example that everyone is out to get them, and so their reality shifts into madness. Interestingly enough, they could channel the daedric prince of madness while on skooma in their interactions, for one possibility. Or they could surcome to complete paranoia that everyone is out to get them, and so the character would give him/herself to very irrational behavior, and potentially even come to see hallucinations to go along with their madness. An idea along those lines hits me. At this point, the only thing keeping the player alive, is the skooma, but as they continue to take it, their condition continues to worsen. That's not to say that there isint a cure, but what if the cure was a closley guarded secret that is not obtainable by the dragonborn, or the public at all. They will only cure you of your addition once you have been arrested.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Slade37