Forming a modding team, looking for volunteers!

[Danneyo]

Eh. I can see the benefit in doing something like that. But you're essentially just inviting skilled people to a chatroom where something may end up being done. The problem with working by committee is that there is no actual goal people can build on. No foundation. Which means that it may be hard to get one clear, concise idea.

[ecutruin]

 

I'll have to agree with the others here that some sort of direction is ideal. Even a vague one. Otherwise, people don't know what exactly they're getting into, and is just generally bad form.

 

Basically it sounds like they are getting into a discussion. Kind of like joining a democracy where you aren't quite sure what is going to be decided as of yet.

 

I don't think that is a bad way to go about things. Get people talking and hopefully come up with a few common goals, and for those who decide they don't like the consensus, they aren't forced to stay.

 

 

 

 

Not the direction I am going, but an interesting idea.

 

The idea of a 'Modding Confederation' interests me, where everyone agrees on certain things and works toward the good of the group, but are still independent and able to pursue their own dreams. Not saying it would work, just the idea is intriguing.

 

 

This is actually the way I saw it as well. However, I think this approach is generally not a very good one in a non-commercial environment such as hobby modding. If Bethesda was going paid modding this time around, I'd see this as a great idea as people could get paid for their work towards a project decided on by the group...but as that is quite unlikely I don't see it all that beneficial for most.

 

Why? Because modding is about making the game what you want to play. Unless EVERYONE in the group wants to do the same focused plan, what incentive is there to work on something that I honestly am not too interested in? Which overall means a general goal should be provided first and recruitment to said goal afterwards.

 

To cite an example...

 

I want to overhaul the game...quite completely. Its going to be a horrible and time consuming effort, but I'm not currently recruiting anyone. It is currently just myself and one other friend looking at taking this on and we plan to do it quite methodical (which means only a portion of the world will really be super useful until we overhaul the rest).

 

Until I actually have a reasonable amount of playable experience showcasing exactly what we intend on doing first hand, we probably won't even look at recruiting anyone extra at all. This is because we mod for us...the experience we wish to play...and I think that is really how people should make mods in general.

[TimeLadyKatie]

Even the beginning of a direction - we want to do a major quest mod, we want to develop an Interesting NPCs-esque experience mod, we want to do a graphics overhaul, we want to do an armory mod - that would draw people who want to adress the same areas of the game. With no focus at all even settling on the question of 'what kind of project is this' might be a challenge, let alone coming up with a clear vision of how to achieve that goal. The projects I'm involved in all have a concrete idea I either helped engineer myself or am passionate about developing, and they're all mods that I know my knowledge and skills will be particularly useful in. If I didn't have that information going in, I wouldn't have jumped on board.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade you from gathering a team, but suggesting you talk with who you have on board right now and figure out what it is you want out of the mod you're developing, or at lest what facet you want to tackle. That way people who join up in the near future will have some idea of how to apply their skills to your project.

[TeamBacon]

 

 

I'll have to agree with the others here that some sort of direction is ideal. Even a vague one. Otherwise, people don't know what exactly they're getting into, and is just generally bad form.

 

Basically it sounds like they are getting into a discussion. Kind of like joining a democracy where you aren't quite sure what is going to be decided as of yet.

 

I don't think that is a bad way to go about things. Get people talking and hopefully come up with a few common goals, and for those who decide they don't like the consensus, they aren't forced to stay.

 

 

 

 

Not the direction I am going, but an interesting idea.

 

The idea of a 'Modding Confederation' interests me, where everyone agrees on certain things and works toward the good of the group, but are still independent and able to pursue their own dreams. Not saying it would work, just the idea is intriguing.

 

 

This is actually the way I saw it as well. However, I think this approach is generally not a very good one in a non-commercial environment such as hobby modding. If Bethesda was going paid modding this time around, I'd see this as a great idea as people could get paid for their work towards a project decided on by the group...but as that is quite unlikely I don't see it all that beneficial for most.

 

Why? Because modding is about making the game what you want to play. Unless EVERYONE in the group wants to do the same focused plan, what incentive is there to work on something that I honestly am not too interested in? Which overall means a general goal should be provided first and recruitment to said goal afterwards.

 

To cite an example...

 

I want to overhaul the game...quite completely. Its going to be a horrible and time consuming effort, but I'm not currently recruiting anyone. It is currently just myself and one other friend looking at taking this on and we plan to do it quite methodical (which means only a portion of the world will really be super useful until we overhaul the rest).

 

Until I actually have a reasonable amount of playable experience showcasing exactly what we intend on doing first hand, we probably won't even look at recruiting anyone extra at all. This is because we mod for us...the experience we wish to play...and I think that is really how people should make mods in general.

 

 

I respect that opinion, but from many of the things I have seen you say around here, you seem to be very against people working together. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't the future I would want to see, everyone modding in their own little bubbles with no regard to what others are doing.

 

I understand that some people mod for themselves, but that is not me. I want to bring joy to as many people as possible with my art, and if that means working to be compatible with as many mods as possible, than that is what I will do.

[TeamBacon]

Even the beginning of a direction - we want to do a major quest mod, we want to develop an Interesting NPCs-esque experience mod, we want to do a graphics overhaul, we want to do an armory mod - that would draw people who want to adress the same areas of the game. With no focus at all even settling on the question of 'what kind of project is this' might be a challenge, let alone coming up with a clear vision of how to achieve that goal. The projects I'm involved in all have a concrete idea I either helped engineer myself or am passionate about developing, and they're all mods that I know my knowledge and skills will be particularly useful in. If I didn't have that information going in, I wouldn't have jumped on board.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade you from gathering a team, but suggesting you talk with who you have on board right now and figure out what it is you want out of the mod you're developing, or at lest what facet you want to tackle. That way people who join up in the near future will have some idea of how to apply their skills to your project.

 

 

So, what I have gathered is that basically most people agree that you at least need to have a mission statement for your team, even before you start discussing as a group.

 

Kind of like if all the top scientists in the world had a meeting, they always have a mission, such as 'global warming' or 'finding the Higgs particle' or something to that extent.

 

 

 

So, for example... The mission for my mod is to create a sense of community or family within the game. Everything I have made since then was built around that point of making the player feel like he/she is part of something on a human scale as opposed to just being a larger than life hero.

[ecutruin]

 

 

I respect that opinion, but from many of the things I have seen you say around here, you seem to be very against people working together. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't the future I would want to see, everyone modding in their own little bubbles with no regard to what others are doing.

 

I understand that some people mod for themselves, but that is not me. I want to bring joy to as many people as possible with my art, and if that means working to be compatible with as many mods as possible, than that is what I will do.

 

 

No, I'm not against people working together. Far from it, in fact. If you actually read what I said...I feel it is a better idea to have a well thought out design plan (if not an actual basic implementation of it) before asking others to join in. The only exception I see to this is if you are say a story writer, voice actor, etc. but have trouble with other aspects of modding and just want to contribute to a project. In this case though, you should be offering yourself out based on your skills...not asking others to join you.

 

I understand your desire to please others and I'm not opposed to that, however, you still have to have your own drive for it...otherwise what keeps you going? What gives you a direction to understand good and bad design decisions people suggest, etc.

 

As for the topic of making mods compatible with each other, that is only beneficial for focused mods that don't have broad scopes. If the intention is a more encompassing mod, you'll end up spending a large amount of resources towards maintaining compatibility with other ways of doing things. Then what happens if someone does something even MORE different than the other 30 mods you already created compatibility for? You see what I mean?

 

I'll illustrate again with using my own design. My end-goal is to create a whole slew of interconnected design changes to the game. Various mechanics will be used by various other subsystems. In this case, making each subsystem in such a way that it would be compatible with other ways of doing similar things would be a nightmare.

 

On the other hand, say I just wanted to do something like overhaul stealth, or add a new settlement area...I could likely build such a mod in a way it would play friendly with most other mods (except those that utilize the same area). Little incompatibilities with specific mods could be ironed out with changes and/or patches. In this case, its a good idea to try make your mod that way.

 

Its all based on scope.

[TeamBacon]

 

 

 

I respect that opinion, but from many of the things I have seen you say around here, you seem to be very against people working together. Nothing wrong with that, but it isn't the future I would want to see, everyone modding in their own little bubbles with no regard to what others are doing.

 

I understand that some people mod for themselves, but that is not me. I want to bring joy to as many people as possible with my art, and if that means working to be compatible with as many mods as possible, than that is what I will do.

 

 

 

Its all based on scope.

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

It isn't about what the other mods do that makes your mod compatible, but the choices you make. You can use very invasive means to change the game, or you can come up with ways to get your point across while rocking the boat as little as possible. You can't rely on other people doing things in a responsible way, but you have complete control of yourself and how you choose to do things.

 

 

 

And what you described is not actually teamwork, if you have implemented you mod before anyone else joined the team. That is people working 'for' your project not people working 'with' you to come up with something. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, because that is in fact the route I am taking myself. But it is not true teamwork and collaboration no matter how much you respect the ideas of the new people joining.

 

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I can't see how anyone could rationally think it is a 'bad' idea to ask if people want to collaborate. It isn't like people can't just say no if they aren't interested...

[DetCord12B]

I might be willing to help out if you figure out what you intend on actually doing. I do texture work and Graphical Design (advertising) professionally and as a hobby.

 

Past and current projects.

 

Ongoing A3 Project.

 

Livery Design for KLM-Royal Dutch Airlines.

 

Just a few of the textures I've done for FS.

 

And many more.

[ecutruin]

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

It isn't about what the other mods do that makes your mod compatible, but the choices you make. You can use very invasive means to change the game, or you can come up with ways to get your point across while rocking the boat as little as possible. You can't rely on other people doing things in a responsible way, but you have complete control of yourself and how you choose to do things.

 

 

 

And what you described is not actually teamwork, if you have implemented you mod before anyone else joined the team. That is people working 'for' your project not people working 'with' you to come up with something. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, because that is in fact the route I am taking myself. But it is not true teamwork and collaboration no matter how much you respect the ideas of the new people joining.

 

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I can't see how anyone could rationally think it is a 'bad' idea to ask if people want to collaborate. It isn't like people can't just say no if they aren't interested...

 

 

It seems we will have to agree to disagree on this, as it seems we both have different outlooks on what modding is to us. I don't mod for other people. I create content I want to play and share it so that those that feel the same may also enjoy such experience.

 

As for your comments on compatibility, reducing my enjoyment to appease others when others can choose to use other mods to get their desired experience seems absurd, to be frank. Many of the things I wish to do, for instance, are very core changes to the game (involving core settlement systems as well as nearly every cell in the game being overhauled). Without these changes it just isn't possible to create the same experience I wish to create. You're telling me that I should avoid creating my desired experience just because someone might wish to use another mod to change the experience? Why?

 

As for your comments about collaboration. You seem to either misunderstand me. I have not once said it is a bad idea to collaborate. I've stated that I feel that advertising that you want to form a group to make something without specifying said thing at all feels shady. It gives off the impression that you want to leach off the skills of others. In modding (from my experience as one of the major Minecraft mod authors), where everyone can add content as they wish, I feel you should be making the things you wish to make...so if you don't know what to make...you should be joining others, not asking them to join you.

 

Anyways...I've said my piece on this towards you. If you disagree, we can just agree to disagree and be done with it...if you still wish to discuss this, I don't mind but let's take it to PMs instead (feel free to shoot me one) so that we don't consume this thread.

 

 

@Beacon,

 

I apologize if our discussion has kind of derailed your thread. I still feel your goal of building a modding group is a very neat idea, however, I just feel you would present yourself better if you were either offering your modding skills to others or had a direction to entice mod authors to join you. I wish you the best of luck with the project.

[Beacon]

Are you going to schedule some sort of Skype chatroom or something so everyone can meet on one certain day and discuss things in real time?

 

I would have been more interested in this 3 months ago, but after having 200+ pages written and all my characters concepted and modeling started, I am well past the point of no return when it comes to my mod. I am stuck on this path for better or worse.

 

Yeah, I'm going to be scheduling likely weekly meetings on an online tool called Slack, for those involved in the main project.

 

Eh. I can see the benefit in doing something like that. But you're essentially just inviting skilled people to a chatroom where something may end up being done. The problem with working by committee is that there is no actual goal people can build on. No foundation. Which means that it may be hard to get one clear, concise idea.

 

Not exactly - at first, we will all be suggesting ideas but before long we'll settle on one, and all work towards that as a common goal.

 

 

 

I'll have to agree with the others here that some sort of direction is ideal. Even a vague one. Otherwise, people don't know what exactly they're getting into, and is just generally bad form.

 

Basically it sounds like they are getting into a discussion. Kind of like joining a democracy where you aren't quite sure what is going to be decided as of yet.

 

I don't think that is a bad way to go about things. Get people talking and hopefully come up with a few common goals, and for those who decide they don't like the consensus, they aren't forced to stay.

 

 

 

 

Not the direction I am going, but an interesting idea.

 

The idea of a 'Modding Confederation' interests me, where everyone agrees on certain things and works toward the good of the group, but are still independent and able to pursue their own dreams. Not saying it would work, just the idea is intriguing.

 

 

This is actually the way I saw it as well. However, I think this approach is generally not a very good one in a non-commercial environment such as hobby modding. If Bethesda was going paid modding this time around, I'd see this as a great idea as people could get paid for their work towards a project decided on by the group...but as that is quite unlikely I don't see it all that beneficial for most.

 

Why? Because modding is about making the game what you want to play. Unless EVERYONE in the group wants to do the same focused plan, what incentive is there to work on something that I honestly am not too interested in? Which overall means a general goal should be provided first and recruitment to said goal afterwards.

 

To cite an example...

 

I want to overhaul the game...quite completely. Its going to be a horrible and time consuming effort, but I'm not currently recruiting anyone. It is currently just myself and one other friend looking at taking this on and we plan to do it quite methodical (which means only a portion of the world will really be super useful until we overhaul the rest).

 

Until I actually have a reasonable amount of playable experience showcasing exactly what we intend on doing first hand, we probably won't even look at recruiting anyone extra at all. This is because we mod for us...the experience we wish to play...and I think that is really how people should make mods in general.

 

 

Like I said before, I've done that route previously - my current project was exactly as you describe. I'm trying a different route this time.

 

Even the beginning of a direction - we want to do a major quest mod, we want to develop an Interesting NPCs-esque experience mod, we want to do a graphics overhaul, we want to do an armory mod - that would draw people who want to adress the same areas of the game. With no focus at all even settling on the question of 'what kind of project is this' might be a challenge, let alone coming up with a clear vision of how to achieve that goal. The projects I'm involved in all have a concrete idea I either helped engineer myself or am passionate about developing, and they're all mods that I know my knowledge and skills will be particularly useful in. If I didn't have that information going in, I wouldn't have jumped on board.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade you from gathering a team, but suggesting you talk with who you have on board right now and figure out what it is you want out of the mod you're developing, or at lest what facet you want to tackle. That way people who join up in the near future will have some idea of how to apply their skills to your project.

 

Sure, I get that. The project would likely be a new land, or at the least a fairly significant new quest-chain with new characters, items, several new large interior playspaces, and hopefully a companion.

 

I might be willing to help out if you figure out what you intend on actually doing. I do texture work and Graphical Design (advertising) professionally and as a hobby.

 

Past and current projects.

 

Ongoing A3 Project.

 

Livery Design for KLM-Royal Dutch Airlines.

 

Just a few of the textures I've done for FS.

 

And many more.

 

That's nice work! We'd love to have you on board.

 

 

 

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

It isn't about what the other mods do that makes your mod compatible, but the choices you make. You can use very invasive means to change the game, or you can come up with ways to get your point across while rocking the boat as little as possible. You can't rely on other people doing things in a responsible way, but you have complete control of yourself and how you choose to do things.

 

 

 

And what you described is not actually teamwork, if you have implemented you mod before anyone else joined the team. That is people working 'for' your project not people working 'with' you to come up with something. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, because that is in fact the route I am taking myself. But it is not true teamwork and collaboration no matter how much you respect the ideas of the new people joining.

 

I'm not saying one way is right or wrong, but I can't see how anyone could rationally think it is a 'bad' idea to ask if people want to collaborate. It isn't like people can't just say no if they aren't interested...

 

 

It seems we will have to agree to disagree on this, as it seems we both have different outlooks on what modding is to us. I don't mod for other people. I create content I want to play and share it so that those that feel the same may also enjoy such experience.

 

As for your comments on compatibility, reducing my enjoyment to appease others when others can choose to use other mods to get their desired experience seems absurd, to be frank. Many of the things I wish to do, for instance, are very core changes to the game (involving core settlement systems as well as nearly every cell in the game being overhauled). Without these changes it just isn't possible to create the same experience I wish to create. You're telling me that I should avoid creating my desired experience just because someone might wish to use another mod to change the experience? Why?

 

As for your comments about collaboration. You seem to either misunderstand me. I have not once said it is a bad idea to collaborate. I've stated that I feel that advertising that you want to form a group to make something without specifying said thing at all feels shady. It gives off the impression that you want to leach off the skills of others. In modding (from my experience as one of the major Minecraft mod authors), where everyone can add content as they wish, I feel you should be making the things you wish to make...so if you don't know what to make...you should be joining others, not asking them to join you.

 

Anyways...I've said my piece on this towards you. If you disagree, we can just agree to disagree and be done with it...if you still wish to discuss this, I don't mind but let's take it to PMs instead (feel free to shoot me one) so that we don't consume this thread.

 

 

@Beacon,

 

I apologize if our discussion has kind of derailed your thread. I still feel your goal of building a modding group is a very neat idea, however, I just feel you would present yourself better if you were either offering your modding skills to others or had a direction to entice mod authors to join you. I wish you the best of luck with the project.

 

 

Thanks for your points, I appreciate what you're saying - perhaps I haven't gotten it across, but I am not new to modding - I've been running and managing a large group of people for several years on an extremely large project, while doing 80% of the work myself, whether it's writing, modelling, SDK work, scripting, design, etc. I wanted to go a different route this time and create a more democratic and inclusive group to create something as a whole. Obviously, I'll focus the group down to nail down the project specifics and get everyone working towards a common goal quickly - I'm aiming to become a Producer in this industry within the next 6 months, so I'm confident we can achieve something great here.