Brotherhood Overhaul (Conceptual Stage)

[Athanasa]

I cannot relate to the Minutemen at all. Like, at all. Almost as bad as Caesar's Legion. On the one hand, they talk about peace and stability in the Commonwealth, and yet they somehow have the power to A) Destroy the Institute and B) Destroy the BoS using cloth armor and basic weaponry. Immediately before the player arrives, they were completely wiped out by Gunners and everyone backed out. Its inconceivable that they'd have any ability to do either of those in the time frame you're around them. I get them from a standpoint of building up the settlements, but as far as a major faction within the area able to withstand these powers, it makes no sense. Same with the Railroad. To me, both of them are equivalent to the various guilds in Skyrim. Each had effectively a solid main quest, but largely wasn't connected to the main storyline because they did not really have a beef with it (nor could they possibly interact with the Imperial Legion or the Stormcloaks.

Wait, I was under the vague impression that they pretty much WERE a guild. Like they piggybacked onto the ending of every other faction. I just... same as you, I can't see them doing ANYTHING lasting. And the Railroad... isn't their ending entirely reliant on YOU? I mean, without YOU, they wouldn't be able to do any of it. Ever. At least the BoS could make headway in the Commonwealth through superior technology and tactics, but the Railroad and Minutemen? They're totally reliant on You, The Hero.

 

 

 

When I look at the Minutemen, I see their quest line ending after taking over the armory. They've got their HQ back, and can more efficiently coordinate all settlements while having the equipment and manpower required. That's it. From there its gaining all the settlements, patrolling the areas, and supporting any issues brought up by each location. They do not have the ability to build a teleporter, or assault an underground complex of extremely highly advanced technology, nor do they have the ability to take out the BoS (even if the artillery *may* be able to take down the Prydwen). The assault on The Castle and all other settlements would've wiped them out.

Hey, you've never fired Artillery in your life and have no grasp of how a fire mission works! YOU'RE HIRED! We have no forward observers, you don't know how to read a map, and you're taking pot shots at smoke grenades! Now get on that artillery piece and never move to sleep again.

 

 

They may take Sanctuary first and then work their ways downwards, thereby forcing the Minutemen to support those settlements (or risk everyone breaking off from the Minutemen). Once Sanctuary is held, it is turned into a heavy base and the main force assaults it. You successfully defend and the Minutemen have to retreat and regroup somewhere. It becomes very tactical as you whittle them down.

 

Couple that with using something like "We Are The Minutemen" where they wear proper equipment (including those using T-45 power armor since it supports the Minutemen paint jobs), and you'd have a solid war between both sides that would be very entertaining.

Taking sanctuary might possibly be the single most stupid symbolic thing they could do. Tactically a good idea, as it's far away from the BoS, but the emotional ties it has to your PC could be their undoing. Depending on your character, it might be one of your Main Ties to your past. Your dead spouse is there. You were practically BORN there into what you are now. Bonus points if the Minutemen sets up a last defense in the vault - as far as my PC is concerned, they deserve the resulting massacre if they dare set foot in there. She's moving forwards, forging a new future... but nothing on earth will save you if you dare desecrate her last connections to the past.

 

Or, turn it around the other way. As you hunt them down, the last place they go is Vault 111, fortifying the vault and making their last stand there. Super mega bonus points if there's an option for the PC to get emotional and get rid of Preston by shoving him in a freezer.

 

Disclaimer: I don't hate Preston on his own, although he's irritating. However, if he sided against me ("You're a general now. Wait, no. I decided against it, you're not general. Not like you WERE general anyway."), I would be happy to kill him. For someone that seems to be... well, it's betrayal. Pure and simple. That and a massive ego, unable to accept that maybe the Minutemen just can't do it, and they should step aside for a group that can.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Athanasa

[Vaernus]

Glad you like the ideas, and I'm glad it could spark off ideas for you, too! I LOVE the idea of being at the 'wrong end' of the other factions' end quests.

 

 

1) When the generators go live in the Boston Airport (probably about the time Prime is being built but I've never actively looked yet), these make it difficult to get synths anywhere near the Prydwen. Ignoring companions (as you can bring X6-88 onto the Prydwen which makes absolutely no sense and is most likely for gameplay purposes), my understanding from the final Institute missions is that without the player able to take out the generators, they'd be unable to assault the area as the generators both impede the teleportation and are intentionally designed to mess up the synth components that control the synths. I could be wrong here though, and its just stopping them teleporting units in. Will need to investigate.

 

2) When the BoS starts becoming antagonistic towards the Institute, what's stopping this Courser from accomplishing the same goals as the Institute ending using Liberty Prime to destroy the Prydwen? The security in that area isn't exactly monstrous, and if he was another Prime Scribe, it'd be very simple to virus Prime and be done with it all. Which isn't a bad thing really when you think of it. Like the concepts in the overhaul where the Minutemen have the ability to artillery the Prydwen, perhaps giving the Institute a similar option that you must overcome for their end (and taking this a step further, the Railroad) as response missions before taking out that faction really flesh out the game. It would need to be accomplished while working within the voiced assets, so perhaps that special Paladin NPC plays a part in all of this content.

 

Honestly, I forgot ANTI COMMUNISM ROBOT was a thing. And I just built the damn thing in my game. Oh well.

 

1) In my idea, the Courser lacked the Courser Component, or whatever it was. The thing they use to teleport. This idea mainly came from... well, me not knowing there it actually IS in their body, and the idea that it might have been picked up by the BoS medics at the start of the infiltration operation. For this reason, no Courser Chip. I imagine Synth Components can slip past quite easily - Danse's synth components were never picked up before, and he seemed mostly alright aboard the Prydwen. Although... medical notes on Cade's computer suggest Danse sufferes headaches and insomnia, although it's attributed to PTSD with the whole Cutler thing. Maybe that was actually a result of proximity to generators aboard the Prydwen?

 

2) It may be that the possibility of Prime being rebuilt was never introduced to the Courser, so it has no available data on what to do with Prime. Maybe the return of Liberty Prime had not been something the Institute could have forseen - after all, they had Dr. Li with them. I haven't done the Institute ending, so I have no idea how strong the 'firewall' on Prime is. Although, if you're re-doing the Airport to make it an actual BASE, the security might get a little beefier.

 

[...]

 

Following on from your ideas of being at the "wrong end" of other faction's Final Quest, some post-MQ quests based on vengeful 'remnants' of those factions might work well. I doubt they'd go down quietly - don't Institute synths attack and infiltrate your Settlements if you side against them? I'm not sure if it would be possible to tweak the quests / endings for some of those factions to let certain Major Players survive to cause trouble further down the line (dialogue issues and whatnot), but if it were possible to end up with some "recurring villains" it might be interesting. At least for a few quests until you properly get rid of them.

... I can't think of anything except stuff from the Institute, though. It doesn't feel like there were enough Railroad agents to cause real issues. Actually, scrap that. Your idea: "Tinker Tom and Deacon dressed as BoS members". As they're pretty much limited to guerilla warfare, why not spend their time trying to discredit the BoS? Although, I have no idea if they would be the sort of people to do what would be able to take actions extreme enough - I haven't really touched the Railroad.

 

1) Yea it's fine if the courser chip is missing, but I'd think you'd be able to catch the synth components using something like a biometric scanner (seems like a portable x-ray scanner, I dunno). In Danse's case, I don't think you'd need to use one as he's already a member and synth's are an unknown when he joined. But once they become a reality, and since they've taken apart a bunch of them in the area where the molerats are, they know what to look for. While Gen 3s are mostly organic, the processors in their heads would be mostly the same (hence why a prototype like Valentine was able to use the implant from Kellogg's head). Couple blood tests with biometric scanner and you'd be able to easily identify a synth.

 

2) I'd think it'd be common knowledge for Liberty Prime as it was transported on the Prydwen and then moved to the locked area in the airport. A badge of pride, if you will, when the super weapon can be rebuilt and dropped onto their enemies.

 

3) The checkpoints actually get constantly attacked by whatever factions you wiped out amongst raiders, gunners, ghouls, and mutants. So there's already the element of a faction taking revenge. The overhaul would be looking to expand that to a meaningful level where these places can be wiped out and taken control of by that group.

 

Deacon's an interesting character. He follows you throughout the entire game. It was only after I read about it, that I could put 2+2 together. Per the Wiki:

 

Prior to contacting the Railroad the Survivor may come across Deacon working incognito in some major settlements. He offers some amusing dialog if prompted.

• He is present for the argument between Piper and Mayor McDonough, disguised as Diamond City Security.
• He can be found wandering around Goodneighbor disguised as a "drifter". He can also be found in one of the pods in Memory Den.
• He may be spotted in Bunker Hill disguised as a "caravan worker".
• If sent to a settlement under player control, he'll sometimes disguise himself as a settler, usually in farmer garb. Interestingly, unlike other companions, he can be assigned to resources and otherwise functions exactly like a settler.
• Alternatively, if he's accompanying the player to The Castle or Sanctuary, he will disguise himself as a Minuteman.
• When entering Vault 81 or other Vault-Tec vaults, he will wear a vault suit with the number of the respective vault stamped on the back.

Its quite possible he's disguised himself and gotten damn near everywhere including the Prydwen. Which actually could work in his favor. If he's already been seen multiple times on the Prydwen, people have gotten comfortable with him wandering around, making the possibility of the assault pretty painless unless the player recognizes him. Reminds me somewhat of the monorail mission in New Vegas where you need to identify that bombs are being placed, disable them, and then accuse the person.

 

It'd be interesting because the timing would be key. You could get the call in on the military frequency that a battle is happening at Cambridge between the BoS and the Railroad. If you fast travel there, you'd see a vertibird fly off the roof and fight through the Railroad Heavies, and think all's well that you defended it. Then a little while later, the Prydwen goes down. Thinking about it more in depth, it would need to happen during the BoS attack on Ralroad HQ. You'd wipe out everyone, and Tinker Tom/Deacon aren't there. Perhaps have some clues (if someone never did the Railroad ending) showing the plan to take down the Prydwen. At same time, Cambridge is attacked by heavies. Checking your map, you could see the objectives for wiping out the Railroad is pointing towards Cambridge (they're already disguised and working their way to the vertibird while the heavies are causing a diversion). Arriving, you see the vertibird leaving and the objectives pointing towards it (and if you're fast, you could take it down). If you get to the Prydwen right from Railroad HQ, you could arrive before the vertibird they steal is there, and take them out immediately. If its already there (you twiddled your thumbs and took a nap), you'd take them out inside and then remove the bombs. If you take too long, they take out the Prydwen and you fail the BoS MQ. They perhaps go down with the Prydwen, so the Railroad is still gone. Leaves you with Institute and Minutemen.

[Athanasa]

It'd be interesting because the timing would be key. You could get the call in on the military frequency that a battle is happening at Cambridge between the BoS and the Railroad. If you fast travel there, you'd see a vertibird fly off the roof and fight through the Railroad Heavies, and think all's well that you defended it. Then a little while later, the Prydwen goes down. Thinking about it more in depth, it would need to happen during the BoS attack on Ralroad HQ. You'd wipe out everyone, and Tinker Tom/Deacon aren't there. Perhaps have some clues (if someone never did the Railroad ending) showing the plan to take down the Prydwen. At same time, Cambridge is attacked by heavies. Checking your map, you could see the objectives for wiping out the Railroad is pointing towards Cambridge (they're already disguised and working their way to the vertibird while the heavies are causing a diversion). Arriving, you see the vertibird leaving and the objectives pointing towards it (and if you're fast, you could take it down). If you get to the Prydwen right from Railroad HQ, you could arrive before the vertibird they steal is there, and take them out immediately. If its already there (you twiddled your thumbs and took a nap), you'd take them out inside and then remove the bombs. If you take too long, they take out the Prydwen and you fail the BoS MQ. They perhaps go down with the Prydwen, so the Railroad is still gone. Leaves you with Institute and Minutemen.

 

So long as there's an auto-save somewhere in there, so people can go back and fix it when the Prydwen goes down. Oh! Actually, wouldn't that penalise players that chose not to fast-travel / have it disabled in mods for immersion reasons?

 

... I'm not sure how you could fit it in, but I also like the idea of chasing down their VertiBird in another VB, and having an epic air-battle showdown. Maybe, if you damage them enough that they know they're going down, they either attempt to crash into the Prydwen (not bringing it down, but damaging it severely so you end up doing more missions because the BoS has pulled all resources into fixing it?) or crash into YOUR VertiBird, bringing both down in flames. Of course, you're A Hero. So the BOS'll drag you out of the wreckage at some point and give you a medal or something.

 

 

I'm a sucker for the PC being rescued in games. It doesn't matter how much of a hero you are, sometimes you become the rescue NPC.

 

 

Speaking of rescue, some repeatable quest types where you go out to investigate BoS distress beacons? Can we replace escorting toddlers around the battlefield with that? 'Cause I think the last squire I took out will be scarred for life... I chose not to fast travel, so he ended up going through at least two Super Mutant bases until I realised what I'd exposed him to.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Athanasa

[Vaernus]

 

I cannot relate to the Minutemen at all. Like, at all. Almost as bad as Caesar's Legion. On the one hand, they talk about peace and stability in the Commonwealth, and yet they somehow have the power to A) Destroy the Institute and B) Destroy the BoS using cloth armor and basic weaponry. Immediately before the player arrives, they were completely wiped out by Gunners and everyone backed out. Its inconceivable that they'd have any ability to do either of those in the time frame you're around them. I get them from a standpoint of building up the settlements, but as far as a major faction within the area able to withstand these powers, it makes no sense. Same with the Railroad. To me, both of them are equivalent to the various guilds in Skyrim. Each had effectively a solid main quest, but largely wasn't connected to the main storyline because they did not really have a beef with it (nor could they possibly interact with the Imperial Legion or the Stormcloaks.

Wait, I was under the vague impression that they pretty much WERE a guild. Like they piggybacked onto the ending of every other faction. I just... same as you, I can't see them doing ANYTHING lasting. And the Railroad... isn't their ending entirely reliant on YOU? I mean, without YOU, they wouldn't be able to do any of it. Ever. At least the BoS could make headway in the Commonwealth through superior technology and tactics, but the Railroad and Minutemen? They're totally reliant on You, The Hero.

 

 

 

When I look at the Minutemen, I see their quest line ending after taking over the armory. They've got their HQ back, and can more efficiently coordinate all settlements while having the equipment and manpower required. That's it. From there its gaining all the settlements, patrolling the areas, and supporting any issues brought up by each location. They do not have the ability to build a teleporter, or assault an underground complex of extremely highly advanced technology, nor do they have the ability to take out the BoS (even if the artillery *may* be able to take down the Prydwen). The assault on The Castle and all other settlements would've wiped them out.

Hey, you've never fired Artillery in your life and have no grasp of how a fire mission works! YOU'RE HIRED! We have no forward observers, you don't know how to read a map, and you're taking pot shots at smoke grenades! Now get on that artillery piece and never move to sleep again.

 

 

They may take Sanctuary first and then work their ways downwards, thereby forcing the Minutemen to support those settlements (or risk everyone breaking off from the Minutemen). Once Sanctuary is held, it is turned into a heavy base and the main force assaults it. You successfully defend and the Minutemen have to retreat and regroup somewhere. It becomes very tactical as you whittle them down.

 

Couple that with using something like "We Are The Minutemen" where they wear proper equipment (including those using T-45 power armor since it supports the Minutemen paint jobs), and you'd have a solid war between both sides that would be very entertaining.

Taking sanctuary might possibly be the single most stupid symbolic thing they could do. Tactically a good idea, as it's far away from the BoS, but the emotional ties it has to your PC could be their undoing. Depending on your character, it might be one of your Main Ties to your past. Your dead spouse is there. You were practically BORN there into what you are now. Bonus points if the Minutemen sets up a last defense in the vault - as far as my PC is concerned, they deserve the resulting massacre if they dare set foot in there. She's moving forwards, forging a new future... but nothing on earth will save you if you dare desecrate her last connections to the past.

 

Or, turn it around the other way. As you hunt them down, the last place they go is Vault 111, fortifying the vault and making their last stand there. Super mega bonus points if there's an option for the PC to get emotional and get rid of Preston by shoving him in a freezer.

 

Disclaimer: I don't hate Preston on his own, although he's irritating. However, if he sided against me ("You're a general now. Wait, no. I decided against it, you're not general. Not like you WERE general anyway."), I would be happy to kill him. For someone that seems to be... well, it's betrayal. Pure and simple. That and a massive ego, unable to accept that maybe the Minutemen just can't do it, and they should step aside for a group that can.

 

 

I mean all 4 endings are reliant on you, but the BoS seems to easily be able to handle it themselves. Institute is the same, though losing Kellogg hurts as synths can only do some much. I haven't done Railroad or Minutemen, but Railroad seems to rely on your infiltration of the Institute to ever have an ounce of success, and Minutemen rely on you saving the last one at Concord just to get them going.

 

For artillery, they'd need some heavy duty shells to beat through the hull of Prydwen. The artillery you build seems like, at best, WW2-style guns. The Prydwen seems pretty sturdy. Not to mention 8 settlements close enough to fire on it, and repeated barrages while surviving a BoS response taking down the artillery. Unless we're talking this thing is a Zeppelin made of flammable wood and paper, the inside looks like its a lot of strong metal for the hull. I can believe Liberty Prime's laser can take it out easily, but not artillery.

 

For Sanctuary, I just figured you'd attack a location as far from Boston Airport as possible, opening up multiple fronts. They'd need to hit Cambridge, Fort Strong, and Boston Airport. Then any settlements you've already converted to BoS via Teagan missions. And then something like Sanctuary or Somerville Place. Minutemen have to move on foot while the BoS have the benefit of vertibirds so location is largely irrelevant for them, but hugely important for Minutemen. It'd be interesting to be able to show the Minutemen force(s) on the map in a separate mode and decide where the best attacks need to take place whittling them down.

 

As for Vault 111, actually been considering having the vaults taken over by the BoS anyway. Prydwen is a temporary base, so being able to redesign 111 (and give a proper burial to your spouse) and turn it into their permanent base of operations would alleviate any issues if the Prydwen goes down. Ideally they'd also control the other vaults (81 would make for an interesting scenario between the BoS and the dwellers there).

[Vaernus]

 

It'd be interesting because the timing would be key. You could get the call in on the military frequency that a battle is happening at Cambridge between the BoS and the Railroad. If you fast travel there, you'd see a vertibird fly off the roof and fight through the Railroad Heavies, and think all's well that you defended it. Then a little while later, the Prydwen goes down. Thinking about it more in depth, it would need to happen during the BoS attack on Ralroad HQ. You'd wipe out everyone, and Tinker Tom/Deacon aren't there. Perhaps have some clues (if someone never did the Railroad ending) showing the plan to take down the Prydwen. At same time, Cambridge is attacked by heavies. Checking your map, you could see the objectives for wiping out the Railroad is pointing towards Cambridge (they're already disguised and working their way to the vertibird while the heavies are causing a diversion). Arriving, you see the vertibird leaving and the objectives pointing towards it (and if you're fast, you could take it down). If you get to the Prydwen right from Railroad HQ, you could arrive before the vertibird they steal is there, and take them out immediately. If its already there (you twiddled your thumbs and took a nap), you'd take them out inside and then remove the bombs. If you take too long, they take out the Prydwen and you fail the BoS MQ. They perhaps go down with the Prydwen, so the Railroad is still gone. Leaves you with Institute and Minutemen.

 

So long as there's an auto-save somewhere in there, so people can go back and fix it when the Prydwen goes down. Oh! Actually, wouldn't that penalise players that chose not to fast-travel / have it disabled in mods for immersion reasons?

 

... I'm not sure how you could fit it in, but I also like the idea of chasing down their VertiBird in another VB, and having an epic air-battle showdown. Maybe, if you damage them enough that they know they're going down, they either attempt to crash into the Prydwen (not bringing it down, but damaging it severely so you end up doing more missions because the BoS has pulled all resources into fixing it?) or crash into YOUR VertiBird, bringing both down in flames. Of course, you're A Hero. So the BOS'll drag you out of the wreckage at some point and give you a medal or something.

 

 

I'm a sucker for the PC being rescued in games. It doesn't matter how much of a hero you are, sometimes you become the rescue NPC.

 

 

Speaking of rescue, some repeatable quest types where you go out to investigate BoS distress beacons? Can we replace escorting toddlers around the battlefield with that? 'Cause I think the last squire I took out will be scarred for life... I chose not to fast travel, so he ended up going through at least two Super Mutant bases until I realised what I'd exposed him to.

 

 

Well if you took a vertibird straight to the Prydwen, you'd be golden. Same with taking a vertibird from Cambridge to the Prydwen when you saw the other one take off. There'd be enough time to accomplish the mission. For gameplay purposes, you'd see the battle happening as Tinker/Deacon are taking the vertibird on top, and the audio could go off of them talking to the Prydwen to dock. You'd have plenty of opportunities knowing something bad is happening to the Prydwen since you're still in the middle of the Railroad attack trying to take those two down in their last ditch heroics.

 

I could see a script being made where they'd be an altered vertibird coming in that's tailing the other one. Would be very interesting getting that to work appropriately (those damn BoS pilots are horrendous).

 

And I agree, I absolutely hate any escort missions as NPCs are stupid. I would at least make the scribes essential to alleviate some of the problems. It would be nice if these could be changed or other missions added (via that paladin NPC) that add a bit more flavor like a rescue.

[Athanasa]

Well if you took a vertibird straight to the Prydwen, you'd be golden. Same with taking a vertibird from Cambridge to the Prydwen when you saw the other one take off. There'd be enough time to accomplish the mission. For gameplay purposes, you'd see the battle happening as Tinker/Deacon are taking the vertibird on top, and the audio could go off of them talking to the Prydwen to dock. You'd have plenty of opportunities knowing something bad is happening to the Prydwen since you're still in the middle of the Railroad attack trying to take those two down in their last ditch heroics.

I could see a script being made where they'd be an altered vertibird coming in that's tailing the other one. Would be very interesting getting that to work appropriately (those damn BoS pilots are horrendous).

 

And I agree, I absolutely hate any escort missions as NPCs are stupid. I would at least make the scribes essential to alleviate some of the problems. It would be nice if these could be changed or other missions added (via that paladin NPC) that add a bit more flavor like a rescue.

 

Aaah, I didn't see what you wrote before about the bombs aboard the Prydwen. Do any of the Vertibird mods make them less dumb? I know one of them (Durable Vertibirds?) allows them to retreat. And I'm so glad I've never done one of those escort missions now.

 

 

 

For Sanctuary, I just figured you'd attack a location as far from Boston Airport as possible, opening up multiple fronts. They'd need to hit Cambridge, Fort Strong, and Boston Airport. Then any settlements you've already converted to BoS via Teagan missions. And then something like Sanctuary or Somerville Place. Minutemen have to move on foot while the BoS have the benefit of vertibirds so location is largely irrelevant for them, but hugely important for Minutemen. It'd be interesting to be able to show the Minutemen force(s) on the map in a separate mode and decide where the best attacks need to take place whittling them down.

 

As for Vault 111, actually been considering having the vaults taken over by the BoS anyway. Prydwen is a temporary base, so being able to redesign 111 (and give a proper burial to your spouse) and turn it into their permanent base of operations would alleviate any issues if the Prydwen goes down. Ideally they'd also control the other vaults (81 would make for an interesting scenario between the BoS and the dwellers there).

Wait, that's what Taegan's missions are? BRB, making entire map BoS... although, won't that make them pissy if I take Danse nearby? I can't wait until THAT issue gets fixed. Otherwise I might have to avoid my own settlements.

 

Also, the Vault 111 as a BoS base idea is pretty cool. Maybe the PC even has the opportunity to suggest it to the BOS? Although maybe they make it a base either way - just one version has you being the clever person.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Athanasa

[Vaernus]

 

Well if you took a vertibird straight to the Prydwen, you'd be golden. Same with taking a vertibird from Cambridge to the Prydwen when you saw the other one take off. There'd be enough time to accomplish the mission. For gameplay purposes, you'd see the battle happening as Tinker/Deacon are taking the vertibird on top, and the audio could go off of them talking to the Prydwen to dock. You'd have plenty of opportunities knowing something bad is happening to the Prydwen since you're still in the middle of the Railroad attack trying to take those two down in their last ditch heroics.

I could see a script being made where they'd be an altered vertibird coming in that's tailing the other one. Would be very interesting getting that to work appropriately (those damn BoS pilots are horrendous).

 

And I agree, I absolutely hate any escort missions as NPCs are stupid. I would at least make the scribes essential to alleviate some of the problems. It would be nice if these could be changed or other missions added (via that paladin NPC) that add a bit more flavor like a rescue.

 

Aaah, I didn't see what you wrote before about the bombs aboard the Prydwen. Do any of the Vertibird mods make them less dumb? I know one of them (Durable Vertibirds?) allows them to retreat. And I'm so glad I've never done one of those escort missions now.

 

 

 

For Sanctuary, I just figured you'd attack a location as far from Boston Airport as possible, opening up multiple fronts. They'd need to hit Cambridge, Fort Strong, and Boston Airport. Then any settlements you've already converted to BoS via Teagan missions. And then something like Sanctuary or Somerville Place. Minutemen have to move on foot while the BoS have the benefit of vertibirds so location is largely irrelevant for them, but hugely important for Minutemen. It'd be interesting to be able to show the Minutemen force(s) on the map in a separate mode and decide where the best attacks need to take place whittling them down.

 

As for Vault 111, actually been considering having the vaults taken over by the BoS anyway. Prydwen is a temporary base, so being able to redesign 111 (and give a proper burial to your spouse) and turn it into their permanent base of operations would alleviate any issues if the Prydwen goes down. Ideally they'd also control the other vaults (81 would make for an interesting scenario between the BoS and the dwellers there).

Wait, that's what Taegan's missions are? BRB, making entire map BoS... although, won't that make them pissy if I take Danse nearby? I can't wait until THAT issue gets fixed. Otherwise I might have to avoid my own settlements.

 

Also, the Vault 111 as a BoS base idea is pretty cool. Maybe the PC even has the opportunity to suggest it to the BOS? Although maybe they make it a base either way - just one version has you being the clever person.

 

 

Durable Vertibirds gives better health to the vertibirds and their pilots, and does give them the ability to retreat if damaged enough. I used the mod as a reference when adding similar functionality into the overhaul currently (it was a few adjustments to the "Vertibird" NPCs and their pilots). We'd need the GECK to adjust the AI patterns used, if that's at all possible.

 

Teagan's missions need to be redone honestly. The fact that you could feasibly give them every settlement without a fight doesn't make sense. I could see it driven by a food amount required, and they provide enough missions to cover it. At first, they sell the food to the BoS to cover that. Later, the BoS would have missions that directly take control building forward bases which puts them at odds with the Minutemen. The two are distinct imho.

 

Suggesting it would be cool. I.E. you'd suggest good locations to salvage from those that you've visited. Vaults, hospitals, military bases like Fort Hagan. The better the location, the more brought back (and the location can change from all the salvage they received). Could even coordinate the salvage runs. I can see the Prydwen becoming a true command center once you're Sentinel rather than just a title with a paint job perk.

[Scribblesix]

For artillery, they'd need some heavy duty shells to beat through the hull of Prydwen. The artillery you build seems like, at best, WW2-style guns. The Prydwen seems pretty sturdy. Not to mention 8 settlements close enough to fire on it, and repeated barrages while surviving a BoS response taking down the artillery. Unless we're talking this thing is a Zeppelin made of flammable wood and paper, the inside looks like its a lot of strong metal for the hull. I can believe Liberty Prime's laser can take it out easily, but not artillery.

.

 

Actually the minuteman artillery looks like a great war era heavy mortar such as the Minenwerfer M 15. This is probably the worst possible weapon for taking down aircraft, but if the minutemen could rustle up some timed fuses for air burst, 2 or three rounds exploding within 50 metres of the Prydwen would be a mission kill at the minimum. A direct hit would be a catastrophic loss. But that's real world logic, not sure how applicable that'd be to fallout.

 

I'm not that sure about the BoS controlling settlements though, it seems 'out of character' for want of a better word. Actually holding land requires vastly more manpower and resources than the mobile strike operations the BoS currently conducts. If the BoS decided to annex the commonwealth they'd either need to co-opt the minutemen or create an equivalent the administer in it's stead.

 

Anyway, there are three possible scenarios here

 

1) Player doesn't restore minutemen, joins BoS has no interest in founding settlements.

2) Player doesn't restore minutemen, joins BoS sets up 'unaligned settlements'.

 

Neither of these require mod support.

 

3) Player doesn't restore minutemen, joins BoS sets up BoS aligned settlements

 

At the minimum some modification to spawns and settlement building (more BoS patrols, BoS skins on turrets ect) needed.

 

3) Player becomes general, restores minutemen, joins BoS.

 

Currently nothing happens here, Id like to see the previously mentioned negotiations take place. Three possible outcomes.

1. Annexation: the Minutemen become a vassal state to the brotherhood, they pay a high price in resources and manpower but get few benefits. The brotherhood become unpopular frequent attacks by 'Free Minutemen/Free Commonwealth citizens. Low settlement happiness.
2. Alliance: the minutemen and BoS provide mutual assistance resources and manpower from the commonwealth, training and low level tech from the brotherhood.
3. Peace: Live and Let Live. The status quo
4. War : The player sides with one side against the other

This looks to require a fair bit of work but nothing drastic.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Scribblesix

[Vaernus]

 

For artillery, they'd need some heavy duty shells to beat through the hull of Prydwen. The artillery you build seems like, at best, WW2-style guns. The Prydwen seems pretty sturdy. Not to mention 8 settlements close enough to fire on it, and repeated barrages while surviving a BoS response taking down the artillery. Unless we're talking this thing is a Zeppelin made of flammable wood and paper, the inside looks like its a lot of strong metal for the hull. I can believe Liberty Prime's laser can take it out easily, but not artillery.

.

 

Actually the minuteman artillery looks like a great war era heavy mortar such as the Minenwerfer M 15. This is probably the worst possible weapon for taking down aircraft, but if the minutemen could rustle up some timed fuses for air burst, 2 or three rounds exploding within 50 metres of the Prydwen would be a mission kill at the minimum. A direct hit would be a catastrophic loss. But that's real world logic, not sure how applicable that'd be to fallout.

 

 

Very interesting. Alright, I take it back then. BoS will need to wipe them out completely before they take the Prydwen down. They are a real threat to their survival. It also makes it vital to setup a new base of operations in one of those vaults for long term Commonwealth usage. Possibly get the Prydwen sent back to the Capital Wasteland. Food for thought.

[Scribblesix]

 

Very interesting. Alright, I take it back then. BoS will need to wipe them out completely before they take the Prydwen down. They are a real threat to their survival. It also makes it vital to setup a new base of operations in one of those vaults for long term Commonwealth usage. Possibly get the Prydwen sent back to the Capital Wasteland. Food for thought.

Pretty much. BUT: the easiest way around this would be negotiation IE the BoS agreeing terms with the minutemen that they do not build arty within range of the airport. (Unless the two factions are allied somehow. I strongly dislike how ever damn thing in fallout four has to be solved with violence. One could even have a route out of fighting for high int characters here by building a C-RAM (anti-artillery system) at the airport.