Brotherhood Overhaul (Conceptual Stage)

[Vaernus]

Sure, be happy to contribute though I've never done more than tinkering in skyrim, so I'll not promise miracles.

 

 

I'd love to contribute. I haven't modded or tinkered with Skyrim or Fallout before, but I used to make missions / scripts for ARMA2. I'm also intending to work on some other mods (stuff to make investing time in settlements worth something), but I have a feeling that maybe-hopefully they'll be... not too bad? Being almost entirely script/values based.

 

D'you have a website for the planning?

 

I've setup a Google Drive folder containing a spreadsheet for the team, the current tasks we're on for some organization, and a document with the design that should allow us to fully flesh out all concepts and how we're going to build them. Figure we keep this transparent so everyone can see what we're doing and offer comments directly in the document. Just need to invite you two into the documents, if you'd want to PM me the email you'd like to use to invite in for editing. I'll put the direct links on the top of main post now to at least view and comment.

[Athanasa]

 

Honestly I was thinking there would be straightforward salvage missions that you as Sentinel would carry out. Perhaps in earlier stages, you could suggest locations to someone and assuming they were good, returning to the NPC would result in some sort of reward if the salvage run was worthwhile (similar to how it takes time for synth Shaun to create mods from random junk he asks for). At Sentinel, you'd directly order which places to salvage, determine the squad makeup, and be able to join the run. This would lead into the possibility of certain locations being identified as long term holdings, and you'd coordinate setting up a BoS base there (mostly military bases and vaults). For locations that aren't long term, any valuable technology would be permanently removed from the location. I'm thinking all static objects like computers, monitors, the CT scanners you see in some medical locations, etc. Even better, I can see these salvage runs directly impacting the Boston Airport expansion. Salvage a medical facility, and new objects (like the CT scanner) show up in the new medical area Cade's running at the airport. This results in more efficient operations which can express itself as less patients (giving you more troops when coordinating attacks or salvage runs), quicker recovery for any injuries, and better selection as a vendor. Perhaps this can also lead to opening up implants again (similar to New Vegas, and what the Brotherhood offered in Fallout 1 and 2).

New Synth detection method: put recruits, naked, in the same room as the CT scanner... assuming any components are metal. Note whose heads explode.

It'd be nice if some of this didn't require Sentinel rank. Because I'm a rabid fangirl, I'd like to be able to do my BoS missions with the rustbucket. Although, I've since learned that if you give the tape from the institute to the Minutemen, they never find out about DDR's origins.

 

... and of course, Danse fangirlness.

 

 

Idea. Is there any way you could possibly work out that Danse's data is on the holotape BEFORE you give it to the BoS? You'd need his DNA to work it out in the same way the BOS does, though. They did get the info from DNA records, right? There are messages around the Institute saying, "Delete any suspicious stuff before my mom gets here, 'k?" One of the entries on that terminal refers to a synth last spotted at the Boston Airport, although its designation is not Danse's number.

After leaving the Institute, you have a choice to look through the holotape data you stole from the Institute on a computer (added optional objective). There's a changelog in there somewhere. In there, you find the some of the data for that Boston Airport synth has been changed - the ID number, and a single line of text removed: "Goes by the name of Danse." You can then choose to erase those areas of data relating to Danse, or leave it there for Brotherhood Justice.

If you erase it, you can confront Danse with the issue. Alternately, he's somehow found out about the data. He doesn't tell the BoS, he just goes AWOL. You then get a variant of the normal scene with Danse in the bunker, where you can kill him yourself, have him kill himself, or persuade him not to die. Maybe edit the voice files a little so you skip references to Maxson sending you to kill him, or maybe Danse just assumes that's the case.

If you spare him, the end result is you get Miserable Danse and the chance to unlock his affinity perk and associated voice lines. And, because you never told the BoS, his lines refering to him still being in the BoS no longer seem so stupid. He also doesn't have to wear the X-01 armor that makes him look like a mirelurk.

 

Bonus Points: Deacon somehow finds out about this, because he's a dirty hacking spy, and tries to use the information against the Brotherhood for the Railroad. What better way to harm the BoS than out one of their best paladins as a Synth, shake up Maxson who was 10 when Danse joined the BoS, and shed doubt on the legitimacy of the SS? He doesn't even have to get your hands dirty or risk Synth lives... well, apart from one Synth life. Maybe he tries to use it as leverage. Either way, this could force your hand to attack the Railroad, or play Deacon's information off as constructed bulls*** through Charisma checks.

 

In an attempt to play off my weirdness, I feel this idea does a few things that might be beneficial.

• Narrative: It shows you how underhanded the RR is willing to be to achieve their goals, if you haven't done quests for them and discovered that already
• Narrative: It could inspire genuine dislike of the RR
• Narrative: It's personal. More personal than the stilted Shaun and Syn-Shaun plot, this is a guy you've fought with back-to-back.
• Mechanics: Get "Know Your Enemy" for +20% damage vs ghouls, synths and super mutants
• Mechanics: No driveby Vertibirds and BoS patrols
• Immersion: DDR can continue talking about how he's in the Brotherhood without looking like he has amnesia
• Immersion: Theoretically, if ever he talks about NOT being in the Brotherhood, you explain that off as him having a downer moment and thinking, "I'M A FREAK!"
• Visuals: Danse doesn't end up looking like a mirelurk.

I realise that my constant fangirl-ness is probably incredibly irritating. However, I have no way to make any of these mods myself (yet)... so I'm throwing them out there in the hope that something might happen with the ideas.

 

 

 

What bothers me the most about the Curie cure is why it cannot be used on Shaun to cure his cancer. They emphasize how the goal is a cure for everything that ails a human, and that it was fully achieved, and yet its only used either on yourself to knock off a simple debuff, or Austin. The possibilities of having this synthesized either by the Brotherhood or Institute, and then being able to cure everyone (yourself, Austin, and Shaun) seems like a major oversight. I feel as if providing this as an opportunity so Shaun is still there at the end of the Institute would make it an even harder decision to go against him rather than knowing he's just going to die anyway. We may want to investigate doing that. The overhaul IMHO should still provide benefits going the BoS route in indirect ways (such as having a much harder time attacking the institute when Shaun is completely healthy) as well as for those choosing other factions (with the BoS being much more efficient as an enemy).

On one hand, now I know that's a thing I really want to see the oversight fixed. On the other hand, losing focus on the BoS for now could end up down a rabbit warren of plot discrepancies throughout the game.

• There's been a Synth front line soldier in the BoS for over 10 years and no-one's ever examined his head (X-ray)... despite a facial scar and a medical record of headaches.
• Shaun's DNA is not irradiated, even though you SAW the bomb go off, and the shock-wave roll over the top of the elevator. How does that make him cleaner than Institute scientists that have been underground since the bombs went off too. Actually, given he's dying of cancer at 60, maybe he wasn't so clean after all - maybe that blast DID get him.
• Will Synth-Shawn ever physically grow, or will it be a 10 year old child forever until it wears out and 'dies'?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Athanasa

[zezia333]

While I don't know much about radiation. I am pretty sure radiation only follows after the initial impact. It also takes time for it to spread.

[Vaernus]

While I don't know much about radiation. I am pretty sure radiation only follows after the initial impact. It also takes time for it to spread.

 

Yea generally that first shockwave would be pure kinetic hell for anyone in the way due to the high yield blast. Technically its possible they survived as the vault elevator was lowered far enough that the shockwave would've passed overhead, so its believable. The radiation would've been focused inside the actual mushroom cloud and the direct surrounding area, with the cloud expanding into the atmosphere and spreading the radioactive particles throughout the Commonwealth over time. Basically the same principle as to why there are rad storms (with a storm picking up the particles in the Glowing Sea and then dispersing them elsewhere, though why every lightning strike actually increases your radiation seems purely a cool gameplay function as the radiation would more or less be constant as the rain hits you).

[Athanasa]

 

While I don't know much about radiation. I am pretty sure radiation only follows after the initial impact. It also takes time for it to spread.

 

Yea generally that first shockwave would be pure kinetic hell for anyone in the way due to the high yield blast. Technically its possible they survived as the vault elevator was lowered far enough that the shockwave would've passed overhead, so its believable. The radiation would've been focused inside the actual mushroom cloud and the direct surrounding area, with the cloud expanding into the atmosphere and spreading the radioactive particles throughout the Commonwealth over time. Basically the same principle as to why there are rad storms (with a storm picking up the particles in the Glowing Sea and then dispersing them elsewhere, though why every lightning strike actually increases your radiation seems purely a cool gameplay function as the radiation would more or less be constant as the rain hits you).

 

Aaah, fair enough. Also, waiting on a mod to RadStorms where being out of cover does constant damage / radiation stuff (because nasty radioactive rain) so you have to find a roof to stand under.

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/fzxmN.jpg

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Athanasa

[Vaernus]

I believe TrueStorms does that. Using that currently along with Darker Nights. Rads really haven't been a factor for a while though while wearing X-01 all the time.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4472/?

Edited December 30, 2015 by Vaernus

[Athanasa]

I believe TrueStorms does that. Using that currently along with Darker Nights. Rads really haven't been a factor for a while though while wearing X-01 all the time.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4472/?

I think that's Deadly Radstorms. However, DR modifies the amount of radiation recieved from lightning strikes, rather than providing anything related to the rain. So, nothing you can shelter from without quick-travelling away or entering a building. Not much else that can really be done without GECK anyway.

 

 

On an unrelated note, someone modded in scavenger stations that make the assigned settlers do push ups. Except my tablet is being uncooperative and not letting me paste anything. http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4749/? NVM, it just hates the post editor. (Windows 8 rt is useless.)

Edited December 31, 2015 by Athanasa

[Vaernus]

Alright looks like everything is plugged into the design document. At this point, its identifying what sticks and what needs to be chopped, fleshing out how these systems will work, and determining what is possible now without the CK. I.E. for something like the "combat system" while that system itself requires scripting, all the various NPCs associated with it (assaulting raider patrols once a location hits 10 would be generic no matter which location "sent" them) could be designed now in FO4Edit. And I feel like some of the "need CK" features can still be done now, but I'd need some input from someone a bit more versed in FO4Edit. Most of that content seems to require scripting which can't be done now, and I haven't been able to identify anything else I can define currently.

[Athanasa]

Dear god, this tablet won't let me quote...

 

Anyway, I was possibly going to start making some vector stuff in Photoshop (tablet, don't force change tab when I type) for super generic mission graphics. That and keep poking stuff for SOCKS and FFS. Someone came up with a neat idea for sending your peasants out on MGSV / WoW style missions, possibly using Vertibirds and 'black screen transitions' to hide them teleporting away.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Athanasa

[Guest deleted2588518]

I just sat for two hours and read all of these posts. I have to say this thread has be overly excited in anticipation for this mod.

One thing I didn't see was the option to become a Scribe instead of a Knight. I play mostly intel based medic types (prior military IRL) so I lean heavily on the intel based systems to avoid killing when-ever possible. I think having the ability to rank up in the Brotherhood as a Scribe would be a great idea.

 

However, I know its somewhat impossible because the game railroads you in a specific direction and ALL voiced dialogue is based on you being a Knight/Paladin/Sentinel. Which I find rather irritating. Every time I turn in documents to Proctor Quinlan and he tells me I missed my calling as a Scribe... I just shake my head.

 

Almost everything I wanted to comment on in regards to how a military person thinks is being discussed. Though, to be honest, I don't get that "militarized" feeling from the Brotherhood in FO4. They feel more like a Technology cult and less like an organized military. Their little "motto" is cute but it just doesn't feel like it has any weight behind it because they just spin their wheels constantly against pipe-riffle toting raiders. Raiders really shouldn't stand any chance against a Knight in power armor. Let alone a vertibird with a mini-gun. But they constantly get blown out of the sky by spit-balls. Deadly Vertibers resolves some of those issues but the Brotherhood still feel like Boy Scouts playing soldier rather than a highly trained para-military organization.

 

I'm glad you are discussing tactical decision making. If my understanding of all previous encounters with the Brotherhood has taught me anything... Outside of Lyons, is that the Brotherhood's primary goal is to safeguard humanity for abusing technology with zero regard to the wasteland's people or their means of existence. So long as they don't outright attack the Brotherhood or prevent them from acquiring technology. Fallout 1 mentions the Brotherhood selling refab weapons and ammunition in exchange for supplies. Lyons loses nearly all of his Knights and Paladins when he decides to become part of the Capital Wasteland and help the locals.

 

However, with Maxon being part of Lyons' Brotherhood and his backstory in FO4, I make the assumption that the Outcasts came back into the fold when Maxon became elder. Which is likely why the Brotherhood in FO4 is keeping the black and red color scheme. If this is correct, then the Brotherhood coming in from the Capital Wasteland should embody the West Coast Brotherhood's ideals. Having Maxon's Brotherhood resemble Lyons in that they start fending for the common folk of the Commonwealth seems counter intuitive. This is where your "Minutemen" need to be a critical part in having the Commonwealth trust them.

 

The Brotherhood can't become a remade Lyon's Pride. If they want to control the Commonwealth in any significant way and stay true to their goals and ideals...

 

1. The Boston Airport is their main FOB. As such, they would do most of their recon by air and only go to ground elsewhere if that becomes compromised. -OR- The Prydwen is destroyed and falls on the airport.

The Brotherhood holding settlements themselves or guarding them doesn't seem reasonable from a lore standpoint. They have no interest (lore wise) to become stewards of the Commonwealth.

As everyone knows the Brotherhood is at Boston Airport, people wishing to become members would naturally go to them. Thought a good idea would be "Recruitment Officers" in major settlements.

 

2. If the player wishes to be more humanitarian towards the Commonwealth, they need the assistance of the Minutemen. As the Brotherhood isn't (again, lore wise) interested in managing wastelanders, the proposed ideas to have the BoS and Minutemen (player as General) sit down to discuss terms of an alliance is a great idea. Where the player then has the support of both the Minutemen and the Brotherhood and the Minutemen can then become sponsored as suggested. But the Brotherhood shouldn't be in control over settlements directly. Maybe a patrol once in a while to ensure compliance of the agreed terms and support of defense, but not outright control.

 

3. The Minutemen, realistically, have zero chance of taking on the Brotherhood in any capacity. The Minutemen have far fewer resources than the NCR did and the Brotherhood has far more heavily trained units at Boston Airport than the small fire-team of BoS had at Helios One. Even with a large number of Minutemen with Lasermuskets, they wouldn't be able to assault Boston Airport with any hope of success. Their artillery isn't designed to take out aircraft... and even if they had munitions to detonate in-air like bursts... they have zero training and zero experience in using the artillery itself let alone custom munitions. In the time needed to become even remotely competent to use the artillery, the BoS could fly in and completely destroy them with a single vertibird and one Knight in T-60.

 

The only hope the minutemen realistically have in bringing down the Brotherhood is by doing something similar to the Railroad. And even that is a stretch as the Minutemen have zero training in infiltration or espionage. They are quite literally farmers with pitchforks.

 

 

As for rewards from the Brotherhood... I would suggest replacing cap (currency) rewards with meds, granades or ammo of some kind. Like how Protector Casdin offers ammo, granades or meds in FO3. I would also love the ability to hand over technology to Proctor Teagan for similar. Meds, Ammo or Granades.

 

I've got loads of ideas but Athanasa is giving them out pretty good and I'm late to the party.

 

*edit - I'm terrible at proof-reading ;)

Edited December 31, 2015 by TotalMeltdown