[WIP] Mator Smash - The Conflict Resolution Revolution

[Nephenee13]

Well I can't make a video but later I'll type up some examples

[vlainstrike]

That would be wonderful!

[matortheeternal]

I've recently started using Mator Smash, and I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to produce the results I want. I've watched your tutorial a few times, but the smash examples weren't very specific regarding how to accomplish a particular desired outcome. I feel like I'm missing something fundamental. Namely, how do you teach MatorSmash when to follow the 'rule of one' and when to break it for specific mods?

Hi vlainstrike,

 

You can apply "treat as single entity" to certain records/subrecords in a smash setting, and apply that smash setting to specific mods.

 

For example, take the following load order with respect to ALCH - ingestibles:

 

USLEEP

Legacy of the Dragonborn

CACO

Radiant and Unique Potions and Poisons

Pretty Animated Potions - Small Bottles Edition

Potion Replacer 0.2 (animated potions mod, no DLC by Aleanne)

Unique Booze Bottles

Unique Booze Bottles Alternate Names Version

 

With this load order I'm already getting the EXACT visual effects that I was aiming for on all potions and alcohol. The trick, of course, is to find a Mator Smash setting that correctly forwards all of CACO's non-visual elements, such as Value, Weight, and especially Effects, into a new patch, even though they would normally be overwritten by everything below CACO, all while preserving the visual effects provided by the potion mods found lower in the list.

I think you can use the pre-built BASH.Graphics setting to specify you only want to smash graphics from the mods after CACO. This is how I'd do it: http://puu.sh/rka9i.png

 

Note that this may not resolve everything the way you want, for that you'd want to make custom smash settings.

 

Now, I already have several patches made by other people that nearly accomplish this goal, but it seems that I should be able to use Mator Smash to do this even without those patches.

Looking at my complete load order I anticipate similar issues occuring when I try to smash any NPC AI overhaul with a face mod, such as:

Immersive College of Winterhold <==> Makeovers by Mizzog - College of Winterhold, or

Enhanced Skyrim Factions - The Companions Guild <==> Bijin's Warmaidens,

etc...

 

It's basically the same issue right? How do you use Mator Smash to preserve both the AI of the NPC overhaul as well as the beautiful faces found in facial mods?

 

I feel like once I understand how to solve even one of these conflicts I'll be able to resolve just about anything. Ideally, I'd like to see another video tutorial demonstrating how to resolve this type of conflict using specific mods with a specific outcome in mind, just like the examples I listed. I understand that's a lot to ask, so any help you could give would be greatly appreciated!

This principle is fairly simple. When you only want to forward certain values from a mod, make/use a smash setting for that mod which specifies only those elements to be forwarded. In this case it was the Model element on ALCH records. So this is what your smash settings could look like (not using the pre-built bash ones):

 

This smash setting is for smashing just potion models. You'd apply it to everything after CACO.

http://puu.sh/rkaAf.png

 

This is just a generic Smash.All I generated in the same way as the video tutorial (build from plugins -> autoset attributes). You'd apply this to CACO, WM Flora Overhaul, USLEEP, and LotD.

http://puu.sh/rkaES.png

 

 

Regards,

- Mator

Edited September 22, 2016 by matortheeternal

[vlainstrike]

Ahhhhhhhh! Ok, this is exactly the information I needed to move forward! Now it makes sense why delgathar was saying to think of the smash tags as filters rather than inclusions. Yeah, this definitely gives me the direction I needed to really start playing around with smash patches - this is gonna be fun! :dance:

Ya know, when I first realized the extent of the conflict between CACO and potion mods I was very disheartened to think I would have to forward ALL those CACO records ahead by hand, one by one. But this tool... it's like you've stolen fire from Mt. Olympus, and shared it for the benefit of all humanity!

Thank you so much for your help Mator, and thank you for sharing this powerful utility with all of us plebes!

Edited September 23, 2016 by vlainstrike

[vlainstrike]

Heya Mator,

Once again, thank you so much for your help. Since your post I've been having a blast working with this utility! Between this and Merge Plugins I feel like I have so much more control over my load order, and I can now foresee a future where I can eliminate most, if not all, other patches!

To business: Is there a reason MatorSmash might occasionally miss forwarding a record or am I doing something wrong?

I recently finished the core of my Lighting/Sound smash, during which I only allowed 4 esp's to forward 'XCAS - Acoustic Space' data, namely the 3 Seasons of Skyrim esp's, and WAO. I've been going over the results with a fine toothed comb, and everything worked exactly like I expected it to. All of WAO's acoustic records were sent to the patch, and in cases where WAO didn't offer an XCAS value, the SoS acoustic data correctly made it to the patch, except in a couple odd cases:

Seasons of Skyrim - Civilizations

Block 1, Sub-block 5, The Bee and Barb

Block 2, Sub-block 6, Jorrvaskr Living Quarters

In both of these cases the SoS-Civ data never made it to the patch, and ELFXEnhancer ends up being the last column in TES5edit, rather than my BIG SMASH.esp.

For reference:
Screenshot of my spreadsheet indicating which data to include in the SMASH tag for each mod in my 'Lighting and Sound' group:

http://i67.tinypic.com/mafg9t.jpg

Screenshots of the relevant tags in Mator Smash:

http://i65.tinypic.com/28khqp0.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/315d2me.jpg

Screenshot showing how the vast majority of my successfully SMASHed XCAS - Acoustic records look in TES5edit:

http://i65.tinypic.com/2j47xcp.jpg

Screenshots showing the only two instances where SoS-Civ data failed to be forwarded to my SMASH patch:

http://i65.tinypic.com/29pu2c3.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/28889cm.jpg

Obviously it's not that big of a deal for me to manually fix two records, if need be, but I'm concerned that these errors represent a misunderstanding on my part that could lead to further errors down the line.

Note: I am still VERY uncertain regarding when and if I should apply the 'preserve deletions' flag, or if that has any bearing on my current issue.

Thanks in advance for any help you, or anyone else, can offer!

Edited September 26, 2016 by vlainstrike

[matortheeternal]

Hi again vlainstrike,

I'm glad to hear you've been enjoying using Smash! It looks like you've been busy too, awesome work!

I can better debug the issue if you send me the smash settings you used, the names of the plugins you used them on (with mod links if it's not ever not obvious from the plugin filename), and the load order of the plugins. Alternatively you could also enable all debug options and send me a log of the smash which will tell us how every single conflict is being resolved.

Regards,
- Mator

[vlainstrike]

Ok, I tried registering to send submissions under Mator Smash Settings, but I'm getting the 'mpOpt_ServerUnavailable' message, so here's a link to the log.
(note: the entire log doesn't seem to show itself until you scroll all the way to the bottom)

 

edit: meh, here's a dropcanvas link for the same log file (nifty little site)

And here's a link to my settings.

(upper right hand corner has a 'download all' button so you don't have to do them one at a time from the canvas)

 

The only fairly cryptic esp's are potions.esp, which we discussed earlier, and maybe PPsmallbot.esp. I'm sure you'll recognize everything else.

 

Most settings have the name of the esp right in the name of the setting, so they're pretty self explanatory.

Exceptions:

ALCH.Graphics.Potions: used on all 3 potion mods.

ALCH.Graphics.Potions with Names: for Unique BOOZE Bottles

Lighting.Sound.WAO: used on all 3 SoS esp's in addition to WAO.

Edited September 26, 2016 by vlainstrike

[matortheeternal]

There is no backend server for smash yet.

 

I'll check out the other stuff later (earlier?) when it's not 12:40AM.

[gabba]

Is this normal? I made a Mator Smash patch (JustUSLEEP.esp) with USLEEP on its default setting and all the rest on Skip. Added my whole load order to the patch.

 

 

 

 

 

From what I understand Mator Smash should only carry forward whatever is different from the master file (as a default behaviour, I guess an option to "force carry" might perhaps be handy in certain cases - a bit like the unimplemented RELEV tag which can restore removed elements in leveled lists). But here USLEEP only adds a keyword to the potion, and the same keyword is added by CACO. So, nothing to forward. Despite that, the Name is carried forward from USLEEP even if it's no different from Skyrim.esm.

 

I would expect this record to not end up at all in my patch?

 

EDIT: The logs:

 

Main http://pastebin.com/0QNgpWaz

Patch http://pastebin.com/acdXuZuw

[vlainstrike]

Is this normal? I made a Mator Smash patch (JustUSLEEP.esp) with USLEEP on its default setting and all the rest on Skip. Added my whole load order to the patch.

 

From what I understand Mator Smash should only carry forward whatever is different from the master file (as a default behaviour, I guess an option to "force carry" might perhaps be handy in certain cases - a bit like the unimplemented RELEV tag which can restore removed elements in leveled lists). But here USLEEP only adds a keyword to the potion, and the same keyword is added by CACO. So, nothing to forward. Despite that, the Name is carried forward from USLEEP even if it's no different from Skyrim.esm.

 

I would expect this record to not end up at all in my patch?

 

 

I can take a stab at this one (and Mator, please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

Potion names come from ALCH records. In the screenshot you have settings for ACTI records showing, but if you're using the default setting I assume that 'FULL - Name' is checked under ALCH as well, meaning USLEEP will win name conflicts for ALCH, even if CACO is lower in your load order.

Smash settings basically exist to forward desired winners to your patch, despite load order, so if you don't want USLEEP to win potion names you'll either have to uncheck FULL - Name under the ALCH section of your USLEEP smash tag, or you'd have to also create an ALCH smash tag for CACO that also forwards names (along with whatever other properties you probably want CACO to win, like value, weight, and effects), in which case the lowest mod in your load order possessing ALCH: Full - Name, checked in its smash setting, will find its way to your patch.

 

I've started looking at smash tags as if they install a giant wall of flood gates below each mod that uses them, whereby checking the box of a smash tag node opens up a very narrow gate along that wall, which only allows its own specific type of information to flow DOWNWARD from the mod. And behind each node's gate is a pipeline leading directly to your smash patch, allowing all checkboxed-nodes to bypass any and all mods below itself (assuming those lower mods don't have matching tags of their own), thereby making its way to your smash patch. Any unchecked record in your smash tag is essentially a closed gate, blocking that type of information from going any further DOWNSTREAM into your smash patch.

 

This functionality is what allows you to do something like preserve all of CACO's potion stats, while also having pretty potion textures from other mods that come later in your load order. This is done by creating one ALCH smash tag for CACO that only allows potion stats and effects through, and another ALCH smash tag for your potion texture mods that only have ALCH graphics model elements checked.

Edited September 28, 2016 by vlainstrike