No attributes? Am I the only one Worried?

[InuyashaFE]

The changes in attributes don't worry me so much, and from what I've read in the recent articles it seems like they have made a very good game for us.

However, the part about how everyone laughed when Todd killed a guard with a headshot and the other guard standing less than three feet away looked at it and then said "I know I heard something"..... now that to me seems like it could be a little indication that the devs should spend some time tweaking the new ai some more :tongue:

 

I got worried about that too, sounds oblivion-like style, where in oblvion npcs had psychic powers, in skyrim they will be "i knew i heard something", when a corpse of their fellow falls down near him...well we could see it as a step forward..but i dont know xD

 

I seriously hope its not like that, or it will destroy the immersion completely. :down:

 

Yeah their responsibility and factions should play a factor, too. Obviously a bandit won't care about some traveller lying dead on the road, but one of their bandit buddies falling over dead ought to light up a bulb.

[stars2heaven]

The changes in attributes don't worry me so much, and from what I've read in the recent articles it seems like they have made a very good game for us.

However, the part about how everyone laughed when Todd killed a guard with a headshot and the other guard standing less than three feet away looked at it and then said "I know I heard something"..... now that to me seems like it could be a little indication that the devs should spend some time tweaking the new ai some more :tongue:

 

I got worried about that too, sounds oblivion-like style, where in oblvion npcs had psychic powers, in skyrim they will be "i knew i heard something", when a corpse of their fellow falls down near him...well we could see it as a step forward..but i dont know xD

 

I seriously hope its not like that, or it will destroy the immersion completely. :down:

 

Yeah their responsibility and factions should play a factor, too. Obviously a bandit won't care about some traveller lying dead on the road, but one of their bandit buddies falling over dead ought to light up a bulb.

 

a lot of those articles also say how the npc then came looking for the player. It's not like their companion died infront of them and they didn't notice at all. What the npc should have said is "Holy !@#% I told that idiot I heard something!"

 

Seems to me that the AI is working fine already. It's the voiced reactions that seem to be off.

[WezEllison]

I think that everyone should stop worrying, The games not even been released yet. It's slightly obvious the reason attributes weren't brought into Skyrim is to make the game feel more in depth and to stop all the grinding that *I* personally think makes games less appealing. I know I'm going to upset a few people here but if you're not happy they'll be no power training, keep playing world of warcraft where that's all you do. Bethesda have obviously thought it through thoroughly and know they're going to be people who'll dislike the new mechanics.. but all I'm going to say is, we actually know nothing about the game until we've played it, so until then..

[WizardOfAtlantis]

I'm starting to think a nice compromise would be to have all the traditional attributes at start and let them have some overall effect on your abilities, but then pretty much leave them alone for the rest of the game. Maybe a tiny increase here or there, but that's it. A tiny increase that doesn't really effect too much one way or another, and perhaps only in your major attributes.

 

Maybe that would be a nice mod idea to let the new mechanics do what they want, but to give a starting-out/historical background type of a feel to one's in-game persona. As the stats were in Oblivion, they weren't realistic at all. D&D is more realistic. By the time you're 18, you pretty much have 90 percent of your stats already worked up, if not more. You can get stronger for a few more years, or whatever with practice, but only a bit, taken the fact that a Fighters' Guilder is already going to have had a physical life, just like a Mages' Guilder is going to have spent a large part of his or her childhood in a library. Usually.

 

Basically, I still want the traditional attributes...but I don't want to raise them too much, and overall after that point of just "having them", maybe this new system will be more realistic.

[mountainstorm2010]

For those talking about mainstreaming stuff: joining the mainstream bandwagon isn't always the best idea. Look at Metroid: Other M; it's one of the worst metroid games ever and it's the result of Nintendo trying to appeal to the mainstream gaming community. Oblivion's attributes and leveling system definitely wasn't perfect, but it was far better than Fallout 3/New Vegas. Why? Because in Fallout 3/New Vegas, your character could never run faster, jump higher, or learned new ways to attack and block with melee weapons... at least not unless you used cheats or mods. Simply "dumbing down" certain elements to a game series does not automatically make it better; Dragon Age Origins and its sequel are perfect examples of this.

[Vagrant0]

I think that everyone should stop worrying, The games not even been released yet. It's slightly obvious the reason attributes weren't brought into Skyrim is to make the game feel more in depth and to stop all the grinding that *I* personally think makes games less appealing. I know I'm going to upset a few people here but if you're not happy they'll be no power training, keep playing world of warcraft where that's all you do. Bethesda have obviously thought it through thoroughly and know they're going to be people who'll dislike the new mechanics.. but all I'm going to say is, we actually know nothing about the game until we've played it, so until then..

That's essentially it... Think about how many times you started up Morrowind or Oblivion and chose a class just because it had major skills which were for a particular stat, or made a custom class just so that you would have a major skill or two in all stats. Think about how your next step was often to rank up skills which were not major skills but were needed for combat (eg going through most of the arena at level 1-4 with a light armor bladed emphesis when your major skills are heavy armor/blunt). Think about how badly you'd be getting beaten down by level 5 if you didn't, and all the extra skill spamming with spells, lockpicks, alchemy, speechcraft or hours spend pointlessly swimming around/jumping just to gain that extra 1-2 points needed to level or at level, get that +5 to an attribute.

 

Loss of overt attributes means less micromanaging of levels and probably making the skills you do raise have a more direct effect. Sure, some people like micromanaging, planning out exactly how many times to raise a certain skill per level to maximize their overall gain in the least bit of time, treating everything in between as merely 'unimportant training' and who don't actually start playing the game until their stats are maxed, all their skills are above 80, and they've spent 40 hours of playtime rarely ever leaving a room (just like life). But, that sort of play doesn't make it fun. What makes it fun is the smooth progression in strength as your character develops facing one new challenge after another.

[ita]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the world who played Morrowind and Oblivion and picked and used that skills that I found useful and interesting, not the ones that would give me the best stat gains at each level-up.

[Moja]

I think that everyone should stop worrying, The games not even been released yet. It's slightly obvious the reason attributes weren't brought into Skyrim is to make the game feel more in depth and to stop all the grinding that *I* personally think makes games less appealing. I know I'm going to upset a few people here but if you're not happy they'll be no power training, keep playing world of warcraft where that's all you do. Bethesda have obviously thought it through thoroughly and know they're going to be people who'll dislike the new mechanics.. but all I'm going to say is, we actually know nothing about the game until we've played it, so until then..

That's essentially it... Think about how many times you started up Morrowind or Oblivion and chose a class just because it had major skills which were for a particular stat, or made a custom class just so that you would have a major skill or two in all stats. Think about how your next step was often to rank up skills which were not major skills but were needed for combat (eg going through most of the arena at level 1-4 with a light armor bladed emphesis when your major skills are heavy armor/blunt). Think about how badly you'd be getting beaten down by level 5 if you didn't, and all the extra skill spamming with spells, lockpicks, alchemy, speechcraft or hours spend pointlessly swimming around/jumping just to gain that extra 1-2 points needed to level or at level, get that +5 to an attribute.

 

Loss of overt attributes means less micromanaging of levels and probably making the skills you do raise have a more direct effect. Sure, some people like micromanaging, planning out exactly how many times to raise a certain skill per level to maximize their overall gain in the least bit of time, treating everything in between as merely 'unimportant training' and who don't actually start playing the game until their stats are maxed, all their skills are above 80, and they've spent 40 hours of playtime rarely ever leaving a room (just like life). But, that sort of play doesn't make it fun. What makes it fun is the smooth progression in strength as your character develops facing one new challenge after another.

 

Instead of removing attributes they could make them auto-level based on skill use, as was done in one variant of Kobus Character Advancement System mod (one I found indispensible to avoid this necessary powergaming).

 

I'm worried that without attributes, there are a lot of things about your character that you can't control. How fast do you attack? How fast do you run? How high do you jump? How much can you carry? How fast does your magicka regenerate, and how big is your magicka pool?

[midtek]

Oblivion's attributes and leveling system definitely wasn't perfect, but it was far better than Fallout 3/New Vegas. Why? Because in Fallout 3/New Vegas, your character could never run faster, jump higher, or learned new ways to attack and block with melee weapons... at least not unless you used cheats or mods. Simply "dumbing down" certain elements to a game series does not automatically make it better; Dragon Age Origins and its sequel are perfect examples of this.

 

Then you must got wrong, sir! In New Vegas, Player can perform 3 more attack types in VATS when unarmed skill grow up, and can learn 4 special movements such as Takedown and Counter from NPCs (attack while ducking down also lead to Uppercut, so actually it is 5). With unarmed based weapons and related perks and VATS availability, the skill is much better and useful compare to HtH of TES.

 

You can call that approach to 'dumbing down' and have prejudices upon other games, but you can't make them perfect example of 'worse'. Let's not commit that kind of errors. :biggrin:

[Vagrant0]

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the world who played Morrowind and Oblivion and picked and used that skills that I found useful and interesting, not the ones that would give me the best stat gains at each level-up.

Yep, which is pretty much what this system, as I understand it, will finally let people do without ending up being pathetically weak or feeling like you've lost some potential because you didn't max out endurance in the first 3 levels, or feel the need to train some extra skills just to boost your strength enough to carry loot or make you run faster. We can play a character more in line with a particular class, or simply to play it advancing skills as you use them or need them.

 

 

As for the whole "perks" argument... D&D for a few rulesets now has had the allotment for "feats" or other additions to a character beyond simple gaining of levels/proficiencies. There was some of the same whining when that happened too, but what it ended up doing is granting a wider range of things that help make a character unique or add more depth to that character from one adventure to the next.