Fallout 4 texturing question

[JuJooGuppy]

Hello,

I have a question in regards to texturing / retexturing in Fallout 4. Before, editing and saving .DDS textures was always done w/ the NVIDIA DDS tools, but I noted that there is the Intel Texture Works plugin for doing the same thing, which is what I have (so far) installed this time around (Just did a reformat.) So, I can now open / save DDS files in photoshop using the Intel Texture Works plugin.

My questions are...

A)EDIT: The Intel Works one seems to work fine, as I was able to get a retexture in game, but still curious whether I should have both or if there is reason to have one over the other. Is there a reason to use one over the other? Should I have both, or is the Intel plugin good enough? I thought I read that the Intel version supports higher DX's (DX10+, is that correct..?) than the NVIDIA tool. But I am not 100% sure on this, so I am just trying to get a little more knowledge, so I understand what it is I am doing and WHY.

B) EDIT: I think I answered this one myself, seem to have.

C) When saving .dds files, I know the compressions corresponded to what you were triying to do - whether you had an alpha etc. Has these changed for FO4 at all? Are there particular compressions I am supposed to be using in FO4?


I plan to do some experimentation as I have been to get a better feel for it all, just trying to save myself a LITTLE trouble at least :tongue: I also have a couple tutorials I plan to watch once everyone goes home (Am at work, I spend most of the night alone doing very little, so have permission to do stuff like that so long as I still do what I am supposed to :smile: )


Anyway, thank you for your time regardless!

Edited January 28, 2016 by JuJooGuppy

[JuJooGuppy]

Suppose I will throw this on here too, another question in regards to texturing.. while I was digging around and looking at things, i noted that the normal maps I have been opening from the base game are in a green-yellow-redish format (They are only using the Red & Green channels, blue is just a black channel.)

I don't know why this is, nor how I should go about making a normal map like this? I noted that some mods i have, have normal maps that are more 'typical' and use the blue looking maps I am used to seeing.. does it matter which you use?

[Junnari]

I saw someone recommend using BC1/DXT1 compression, don't know how much the different compression types differ but it seems to be working fine enough for me, at least for non-alpha textures.

 

I assume that you are meaning specular maps in your second post, as all normal maps I've come across have been the common bluish ones. Instead of the more traditional type of specular map that controls the amount and color of the reflection, FO4 uses PBR for most of the weapons, though some may still use the old method. How the new specular textures work is that they use red, green and blue channels affect different aspects of the PBR reflection. I haven't yet completely tested this but as far as I know the red channel sets the gloss/surface smoothness for the material and green sets the reflectivity. The purpose of the blue channel is yet unclear to me. You can use http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4837/? to see some difference between different specular variations.

[lilkandeekid]

For FO4 I use DXT1 For anything without an alpha and DXT5 for things with, same as Skyrim.

That is the highest the Nvidia tool will go, but not sure using the Intel tool and going higher would would really be that great (as file size increases).

Also, you probably dont want to have both, as the Intel tool warns of issues with having multiple resident DDS plugins.

[JuJooGuppy]

Thanks for the reply!,

I am actually referring to the normal maps (_n, yes..?) being in a R&G only, w/ no B. So they appear green / yellow / red when viewing all channels. These are textures taken straight out of the BSA's, being viewed w/ the Intel Works DDS plugins. I can post an example tomorrow when I am at my place if needed.

Regardless, your info on the Specular works is quite useful, too. I am learning lots of things at the same time heh. Can be a bit overwhelming at first :)

[JuJooGuppy]

Thank you Lilk. I will stick w/ the Intel Works for now, as it seems to be doing just fine and its already in place.

I was always under the impression that transparency was set via the diffuse maps alpha channel... but thus far while going through extracted files, it seems that transparency has been set by the material (BGSM) file instead? For instance, I opened the texture for one of the institute glass panes, and the alpha is just a black channel like every other texture, its simply a greyish texture. From what I can tell, the transparency aspect is added in with the material. But what is the alpha being used for in this case? Every single diffuse that I have opened from the default game has had just a plain black alpha. So it makes it seem like useless info at this point...


I appreciate the replies, I realize that these type of newbie questions come up all too often. But, I am at least trying to understand these things on my own. I have an idea of how the textures interact, I understand how to do UVW mapping / editing (though probably poorly lol). So, I am making progress at least lol. Going to start experimenting with getting my first model into the game this coming week, and go from there.


Thanks again for the replies + any future ones!

[lilkandeekid]

Well material files (bgsm) contain links to your textures and other things, so they kinda set everything in a way.

Defiantly worth grabbing Material Editor and checking them out if you havent. Seems FO4 uses a new "Material Swap" to change textures for things with a common .nif where before you had a simple texture swap available.

[JuJooGuppy]

Yeah, I have been looking into them a bit. Just had been curious why I had yet to find a diffuse that had anything in its alpha aside from black, as even transparent / semi transparent stuff wasnt using it in that fashion. I noted that they handled things like institute glass transparency by adjusting things within the material file rather than using the alpha on the diffuse.. and I noted that for completely invisible objects they simply used an absence of texture (the space between the little chainlink looking stuff on the vendor booths, for example.. they just dont texture where they want it to be see through.. and I imagine make a change to the mesh itself..)

[rainrtw]

It is handy to have both actually.

 

The old Nvidia plugins still add a basic, if serviceable normal map filter. So long as you use Average rgb, flip X and Y axis, and then invert the results you should have something that works with FO4 provided you save it with the Intel plugin in normal map mode. Also when patching together layers into a single normal, can duplicate the group, merge it, then use the Nvidia Normal map filter on Normalize only setting, to make sure no values are out of range from the overlay/multiply type process

Although for anything more complicated then adding basic normal map details, you may want to make proper extracted normal maps from high low res versions of the model.

 

Also when you open textures with alpha channels, you will not find the alpha data on the right channel, but cut right out of the texture, which is annoying to say the least. As for me, being an avid fan of Photoshop through the ages, I have an older version of PS set up with ONLY the Nvidia plugin to open Diffuse maps with alpha so I can read them more easily, then the main current version set up with BOTH plugins so that I can still read the spec/normal maps right, save with the New compression formats, and use the normal map filter for minor additions overlayed into the normal maps I make.

 

 

 

As for which Compression to use, lets see if I recall this correctly lol:

 

For DIFFUSE maps with NO alpha, Saving with whatever suits you seems to work. The game seems able to process most of these well enough.

Linear seems to be the preference of the engine, but it doesn't seem to lose quality on sRGB.

 

4bpp Linear, Lowest file size, substantial color artifacting in the output. Not useful for certain single tone textures as it makes for very bad gradients sometimes. However when it says most compatible it means it. If you want your textures rendered on meshes when viewed in Nifscope for example, then you mus use this, or no compression 32bpp.

4bpp sRGB, about the same as above, except not renderable in Nifscope

 

8bpp Dtx11 options, Fine gives much better results then fast, obviously, and both give better results then 4bpp linear, but these are all double the file size as indicated by 8 bits per pixel, instead of 4.

Here with Non alpha textures it doesn't seem to matter which you pick between sRGB or Linear, although I believe on very close inspection 8bpp Fine sRGB has the best results, although the difference between it and linear may only be noticed under magnification in PS

 

 

 

 

For DIFFUSE maps WITH alpha, Similar to above, but with less options. I haven't done much testing with specific settings Vs partial transparency, but 8bpp Linear seems like a good setting here.

4bpp is useful too as then your textures render in Nifscope... however you still get color artifacting blotches, And you do not even get a file size reduction this time, so I just avoid this. I can deal with no Nifscope preview, to have better looks in game.

 

 

 

For Specular Maps, Saving with 4bpp Linear COLOR only is your ticket.

This is because only 2 channels are used so it can save in such a lossy format without actually losing anything.

If you want you speculars to look in any way decent in game always save them in LINEAR compression. The game renders the sRGB spec's as blocky chunky garbage.

Edited January 28, 2016 by rainrtw

[tomomi1922]

Wow, where are you guys when I asked this question? Good information here!