Vindekarr Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 True that mate, unfortunately. Some of the law-enforcement cases I've seen come out of Saudi Arabia are just brutal-a tourist was recently beaten to death by police officers, with no reason or excuse given, after being arrested for public drunkenness. If that's how they treat a foul drunk, I hate to imagine how they'll treat protestors. And what about Egypt? what's going on there? Mubarek is in jail, but what of this council; a cynical enough person could spin this as a coup for the top job rather than the people talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 True that mate, unfortunately. Some of the law-enforcement cases I've seen come out of Saudi Arabia are just brutal-a tourist was recently beaten to death by police officers, with no reason or excuse given, after being arrested for public drunkenness. If that's how they treat a foul drunk, I hate to imagine how they'll treat protestors. And what about Egypt? what's going on there? Mubarek is in jail, but what of this council; a cynical enough person could spin this as a coup for the top job rather than the people talking.Last time I checked, drinking is completely illegal in Saudi Arabia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindekarr Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) He was a Brit, arrested for being drunk-how he managed to get drunk at all in a country under prohibition is a nail in prohibition's coffin but that's for another day and debate-but the English governmnet ruifsed any consular assistance, and even tried to deny he was being held prior to him being tied up by police officers and then beaten to deathj in his cell. What's more suspicious? beating a tourist to death? or a government that refuses to help said tourist or even return his family's calls? I think the latter. Worringly little came out of Syria today, atleast on my corner of the web, aside from the USA pulling many of it's embassy staff out. The Americans couldnt really care less about this-no sanctions, no troops, not even a slap on the wrist. Five thousand civilians massacred in trheir own homes, including over two thousand children, and the west just turns a blind eye. Edited April 26, 2011 by Vindekarr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 If you are going to indulge in Brit-bashing, at least get your facts right;- British tourist beaten to death in Dubai The incident took place in DUBAI and consular officials were refused access to the prisoner by the police. Every article I have read on the subject gives the same salient facts. So please do try to be a little more careful with your anti-British remarks in the future. As to the topic at hand, the West is between the devil and the deep blue sea on this one, as it is to a large extent with any of these uprisings in the Arab world. Bloodthirsty despot who keeps it largely within his own borders, or militant Iranian style or Al Qaida style bloodthirsty despot who believes in jihad and terrorism? Syria has a border with Israel. Get a jihadist in the place of Assad, and what is going on now will look like a mere game of Fallout 3 compared with what will follow when Israel is attacked and hits back hard. Don't get me wrong. I think Assad is a loathsome toad, but we should be careful what we wish for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindekarr Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Oh certainly, I agree that you roll a dangerous dice by removing any despot, but you atleast have a chance to "stack the deck" if you get involved directly, get involved and you may just be able to avoid a proverbial Snake-Eyes via careful manipulation, wheras if you stay out of it altogether, things may run a course that leads to bad consequences for everyone. Dubai eh? I need a new newspaper, they said it was in Saudi Arabia, but I'll go with you on this. Dubai hasnt shown much protest yet, but if it topplkes, we could see falllout on our own sides of the ocean. It's quickly becoming a vastly important tradehub, for better or for worse, and if that gets toppled either as a result of a new despot or internal strife, we'll all be hit in the pockets, not mentioning the implied cost to civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginnyfizz Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Excellent point about Dubai, Vindekarr, there is a large Western presence and investment there both in manpower and trade links, instability there would have some consequences for all of us. And yes, much as we may not want to get involved in Syria, the potential for grave consequences there is so great that we may have to. And that's when I would join in any bashing of the British Foreign Office - they have historically always had a very anti Israel stance which flies in the face of the fact that the Israelis (whatever the rights and wrongs of their own policies) stand between the West and militant jihadists and take a lot of the hits for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardOfAtlantis Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 And that's when I would join in any bashing of the British Foreign Office - they have historically always had a very anti Israel stance which flies in the face of the fact that the Israelis (whatever the rights and wrongs of their own policies) stand between the West and militant jihadists and take a lot of the hits for us.Yes, that's a very good point that I think a lot of people don't realize: just how much Israel stands between the West and people that want to blow themselves up (and others along with them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindekarr Posted April 27, 2011 Author Share Posted April 27, 2011 Aye folks. I have something of a grudge against the Israeli regime for it's numerous human rights violations, but I cant deny that they're a vital bulwark, and that my pro rights attitude probably comes from never visiting the middle east. And anyway, you cant reason with a man who intends to blow himself up, such a man has none of the usual "hooks" such as self preservation or greed, he's going to blow up if he gets his way, and you just cant bribe a kamikaze no matter how hard you try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I have something of a grudge against the Israeli regime for it's numerous human rights violations, Like Muslim fundamentalist honor killings? Like throwing acid in the faces of girls who try to go to school? Like executing the women convicted of adultery under Shariah Law BUT NOT THE MEN? OH! My bad. Thats' the people the Israeli's are fighting...NOT THEM. So much for human rights. Like the Iranian backed and Hezbollah supporting Syrian government is concerned with human rights. C'mon dude. They're shooting more of their own people than ever before. Where is your line of 'thought' coming from? ...but I cant deny that they're a vital bulwark, and that my pro rights attitude probably comes from never visiting the middle east.Or watching the news or reading a newspaper since 2001. And anyway, you cant reason with a man who intends to blow himself up, such a man has none of the usual "hooks" such as self preservation or greed, he's going to blow up if he gets his way, and you just cant bribe a kamikaze no matter how hard you try. No, you can't bribe him. But you can do what he does and kill your enemies and know in your hearth that you are doing the right thing...and live to do it again..and again..and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I have something of a grudge against the Israeli regime for it's numerous human rights violations, Like Muslim fundamentalist honor killings? Like throwing acid in the faces of girls who try to go to school? Like executing the women convicted of adultery under Shariah Law BUT NOT THE MEN? OH! My bad. Thats' the people the Israeli's are fighting...NOT THEM. So much for human rights. Like the Iranian backed and Hezbollah supporting Syrian government is concerned with human rights. C'mon dude. They're shooting more of their own people than ever before. Where is your line of 'thought' coming from?Their enemies do terrible things, that does not mean the government of Israel is good. Not sure what your trying to say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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