EXTREMELY Ambitions Modding

[Grugg]

Plenty of people have had the idea to do such a thing in the past, myself included. Few succeed in achieving such large goals however.

 

The biggest pitfalls are the amount of effort and time required to build such things. Most mods / ideas of such size do well to begin with until the team runs out of steam / gets distracted by RL. Hence why large and fully completed mods are few and far between across all mod friendly games. Those who do have the drive to continue have started to turn towards indie-game development instead as it often has a similar amount of effort except with a legitimate possibility of financial income at the end. (again, myself included)

 

I've been modding games here and there for over a decade now and have seen it time and again. It's usually younger folk (with more free time available) or those newer to the modification scene who still have boundless enthusiasm and creativity to drive them. (I used to be too hehe.) It is great to see the enthusiasm and passion though it is rare to see large projects seen to completion. There are exceptions of course but they are the few and the un-completed are the many. You only have to google around to find large projects started a year or so ago which had great promise but then fizzle out as time goes on.

 

However my aim is not to discourage you from trying. Modding is a great way to express creativity and can be great fun (though admittedly sometimes really frustrating!). I only wish to convey some advice. Although half the attraction of modding is the idea of creating something epic this is often a misleading dream...

 

My advice: Start small. Tiny even. Instead of a whole new map, try a single town or house. Even a single new character / NPC. It will help introduce you to the modding scene and teach you the skills you'll need. It will also teach you the amount of time each task will take and can give a better picture of how long your project may take. Even if you scribble out ideas for your larger project as you go along at the same time it is often a big task to create even a single NPC with a decent back-story and maybe a related quest or two.

 

Anyway, I won't ramble on for too long. Just wanted to share my 2c and wish you luck. :)

 

Oh! And why not wait for Skyrim to mod if your project is a large one?

By all means test things in Oblivion, but migrating to the new engine is exciting! (and it would be great to see a cool mod in Skyrim)

[avianmosquito]

Sounds good. First restriction from the Oblivion engine (as standard) - from my understanding of earlier forum threads you cannot add any weapon types, you can only replace another weapon type with your new one. So, for example, adding a gun will mean losing (say) daggers, or swords, or bows, or clubs. That's why there are very few weapon TYPE mods for Oblivion - no slings or darts or shuriken. If you remain pre-gunpowder you have the same weapons as Oblivion. Take a look at the crossbow mod for Oblivion to see how to replace an existing weapon type.

 

It is, of course, possible that one of the clever people using the script extender has managed to overcome this limitation but I haven't heard of one.

 

You COULD rework the concept to maybe use the rediscovery of the old gods themselves the turning point of the mod - so the re-introduction of magic (for the chaos side) or the fight against it (for the side of order) would be the key the game hangs on. Your character could have abilities for both, and as they use more of one or the other they change alignment with the two factions.

 

Edit: Here's a link to a related discussion about adding spears to Oblivion - http://www.thenexusf...oblivion-spears

 

Actually, both sides use magic. It's a basic, and rather mundane, ability for most living things on Eo. It's the ranged equivalent of fighting hand-to-hand. It's good if you're out of options and it's always there, but weapons are usually better choices. The term for magic and the energy used for it in-universe is zauber instead of magicka. (They use a lot of German.) It's a subset of the body's physical energy, (Energy replaces fatigue. It makes more sense.) and only recharges when the body cannot prepare more energy. (Or upon necessity. All species have a spell that recharges it at the expense of energy.)

 

The magic in use varies from one species to another, with the spell types "kraft" (does blunt/hand-to-hand, push enemy and demoralize) and "befehl" (commands creatures and NPCs) being on the side of order, while "fluch" (damages fatigue, magicka and health) and most illusion magic lie on the side of chaos. There's no preference for magic or technology on either side, the vanir simply lack the coordination to advance technology on their own. (Although they make excellent bows, that's undisputed.)

 

As far as guns, they act as staves with new animations. Magic in this universe in inherent to life, and cannot be implanted into an object, so there are no magic staves. There are enchanted weapons, but those weapons are very definitely alive. Guns are terrible weapons, however. They'll be scripted to pick a random trajectory within a certain bounds, making hits with them more a matter of luck than skill. If you're going to carry a gun, make it a pistol. You can use it with a shield and it doesn't take up much room. Just let them get close because you (usually) only get one shot. The other good option is a blunderbuss. Just keep in mind that it is just as good at killing innocent bystanders as targets, so only fire if there's nothing downrange you don't want to punch many tiny holes in.

 

There are crossbows as well, which also fill the role of staves. They're easy to use and quite accurate, but just not as powerful as bows and take too long to load. If you're going for a ranged weapon, just use a bow. Bows are accurate, powerful and quick to fire. However, your crosshair has been removed, so hitting targets will be difficult.

 

Guns and crossbows do puncture damage, which is different from the piercing damage done by arrows. Metal armour is less effective against puncture damage, while fabric and flesh is less effective against piercing damage. Keep that in mind when choosing armour and weapons.

 

The old gods are still present, although they no longer rule the planet.

Regardless of the path you choose, the last act of the game is to kill one of them.

Your alignment is the replacement of the fame/infamy system. You earn order points for completing order sidequests, (which tend to be quite evil) and enforcing the law, while you earn chaos points for completing chaos quests (which also tend to be quite evil) and breaking the law. The game makes it clear that order and chaos are not good and evil, but more practicality and idealism. Practically, order works better than chaos. Ideally, chaos is true freedom, and is more morally correct than order. You'll hear both arguements a lot.

 

As far as spears, I never thought that would be an issue. I'll look into it at a later time.

 

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Edited May 8, 2011 by avianmosquito

[Daledge]

Their are already guns uploaded so you could get permission to use them?

[avianmosquito]

Chargen:

Species:

 

Your characters (You have two. Switching between them might be difficult to script, but it should be possible.) are supervisors at a foundry in the city-state Hohsturm, within the empire of Schneesturm. The game starts with a chargen menu. First, select your species and your subspecies. (Your character is a child, so keep that in mind while making your choice. Subspecies replaces birthsign.)

Katzemensch: Reclusive, chaos-aligned creatures, ground element. Their name is a misnomer, as their features are anything but feline. While their ears are structured like those of a hyena, which does make them technically feliform, their tails are simian. Other than that and their unique teeth, they appear human. Although normally nudists, the cold air and driving snow of Schneesturm forces them to dress almost as heavily as the other occupants. Their magical specialty is illusion, and their destruction spells are "fluch" (damage energy, zauber and health) and "blitz." (shock damage, drain health and silence) Cats are friendlier towards them than other species. (Dogs have no disposition modifier, so don't worry about it.) Supspecies include gigant and winzig, in addition to gemaene. Gigant are twice the size of normal katzemensch, winzig are half size. This comes with a massive bonus to strength & constitution or dexterity & speed, while penalizing the other. Gemaene is the common version, and is the default option. No bonus or penalty.

 

Mensch: Prominant neutral species, ground element. They appear human, except for the elvish ears. Their skin tones vary wildly, from human-like browns (all the way from tan to black) to red, blue, green, grey, etcetera. They are normal-sized by the standards of Eo, which won't mean anything until you put them next to a human and realize that "normal size" is less than a metre. (Adult humans in the CS will register as creatures because they're too large to be NPCs. Human children are a different matter, as they actually fit within the size parametres.) No magic specialty, destruction spell types are "blitz" and "hitz." (fire damage, damage fatigue, disintigrate armour) Only subspecies are gemaene and winzig.

 

Elvr: Prominant species, subspecies determines alignment and element. They appear similar to mensch, being taller and thinner. The first elvr were the Gottvr, illigitimate spawn of Aesir and Vanir. (Don't ask how, it's a disturbing image.) All other subspecies were spawn of Gottvr and mortals. Generally snobbish, and not looked upon very fondly. Subspecies are Alvr, (Chaos, grass, illusion) Eldvr, (Order, fire, destruction) Blitzvr, (Chaos, wind, destruction) Arnvr, (Order, rock, fortification, unplayable) and Gottvr. (Neutral, divine, manipulation, unplayable.)

 

Cubus: Strongly hated chaos-aligned species, wind element. Males are "incubi," females are "succubi." Be careful about choosing this option, because most species HATE them. They are small by the standards of Eo, (Adults are 1.25 in CS, 1.5 is normal) and their wings prevent them from wearing most upper-body clothing. In order to be used to any effect, their wings must change position and dislocate their shoulders.In effect, they allow the player to jump in mid-air, although to less effect than on the ground. Holding the E key gives about the right delay to hover. Unless you use the "spell" that dislocates your shoulders, this is VERY weak, only allowing you to slow your falls. Once your shoulders are dislocated, you get a large bonus to acrobatics and athletics, and the penalty to jump hieght in mid-air is reduced, while you are granted better control over your movement, but your strength and dexterity is greatly reduced. Males move and climb faster, females have better control over their movement in mid-air. No magic specialty, only destruction spell type is "blitz." No subspecies.

 

Siren: Strongly hated order-aligned species, fire element. The order equivalent to cubi, with avian wings. They are hated just as much as cubi, so be careful about choosing them. They are similar in size to cubi, and have different flight characteristics. While sex plays a similar role in determining flight characteristics, the bonuses and penalties are smaller. No magic specialty, only destruction spell type is "hitz." No subspecies.

 

Nagini: Rare species, subspecies determines alignment and element. Very large. Four-armed humanoid upper body, serpentine lower body. This is achieved by making the "lower body" have no texture, and having the tail be their lower body. The second set of arms comes with the tail, and has little effect on gameplay. Most nagini other than the player are registered as creatures, and attack with all four arms. They cannot wear normal clothing, as it needs to be built for their size and accomodate their second set of arms. No clothing will fit their lower body, they have no feet to put shoes on, and their arms have a unique shape that prevents them from wearing normal gloves. They despise jewelry and refuse to wear it. They may feed like a vampire, human or snake should the need arise, and all forms save for eldr and blitz can breath water. They have seven subspecies: Eldr, (order, fire, bursts into flame at will) Blitz, (chaos, wind, can slow its fall with magic and walk on water), Iss, (neutral, water, uses frost magic and is immune to "detect") Gemaene, (neutral, ground, specializes in fortification) Vior, (Neutral, Wood, Poisonous teeth and claws, regenerating venom supply) Licht, (order, divine, unplayable, glows and specializes in manipulation) and Derk. (chaos, divine, unplayabe, immune to "detect" and specilizes in illusion)

 

Dwerrows: Prevalent species, neutral, rock element. (Singlular form is dwerg) Second most durable species, and has plenty of physical power. Four arms, the second two end in mouths and are merely used in their "feed" animation. EXTREMELY hard to kill, and their skin alone is as good as armour. Not as vulnerable to organ trauma (save for their heart) as other species, and is hard to kill through blood loss, but lacks in dexterity, cannot use magic, and is extremely slow. (The reason is obvious. They're set to be shorter than normal, but twice normal girth.) Back is covered in tentacles that only serve to make them the same speed in water as on land. They can breath water, and have no subspecies.

 

Oruk: Prevalent species, neutral, fire element. Taller than most other species, and has the strength of a minotaur. Although not "ugly" per se, they are not particularly attractive, and are not exactly loved by the populace. They have a friendly relationship with all forms of elvr. Their only spell type is "hitz." They are skilled in hand-to-hand. Their flesh ranges from yellow-red. Their soldiers shave their heads, but their civilians are never allowed to cut their hair. No subspecies.

 

Minotavros: Rare species, neutral, rock element. (Singlular form is, yes, minotaur.) Roughly the size of a human, and is extremely powerful. Loves blunt weaponry and cannot use magic. Fast, strong, and durable, but unintelligent and lacking dexterity. Their size prohibits them from entering most homes, their body structure prevents them from wearing most clothing. Unlike in Oblivion, both sexes exist in game, and they are registered as NPCs.

 

Isa: Prevalent species, neutral, water element. Slightly above normal size, slow, normal strength, poor dexterity and cannot use magic, but is nigh-indestructible. Their body is naturally armoured, and they are hard to defeat through mere organ damage, while they bleed very little, very slowly and need to lose a lot of blood to die. Killing them is a challenge, and even if you do they are reborn as two infant Isa that erupt from their abdomen, fully aware of their previous lives. (The game simply spawns two infant isa when they die, and if they were the player, the player controls one of them. After a delay of one month, the infants gain the ability to respawn once, and in one year twice.) The only way to kill them for good is to kill both of the infants before they gain the ability to respawn. After one year they are fully grown and cease to age. No subspecies.

 

Simini: Bonus species for playtesters, neutral, divine. Normal sized, with above-average magical power, strenth, dexterity and speed, at the cost of being fragile, uncharismatic and hated by all species save for dwerg. They are anthromorphic canines with four-fingered hands. As a simini, many species will attack you on sight. Capable in all forms of magic, can toggle night eye and detect at will. Their vision is unique and unusual, (Assuming I can figure out how to script it, when you choose to play as them, colours are reversed. Blue becomes red, red becomes blue, and green stays the same.) They bleed blue, which is unique amongst the species, and they can use "kraft," "hitz," "Blitz," and "Fluch." No subspecies.

 

Class:

 

After choosing your species, sex, subspecies and customizing your appearance, you now select your class. The classes are different, but should not require introduction at this time. Custom class remains the same.

 

Starting items:

 

Finally, you get to choose a small number of starting items. Their total value may not exceed 100, and you may only choose apparal, apparati, ingredients and miscellanious items. No weapons or ammunition as of yet.

 

Tutorial Quest:

Your characters are supervisors at a foundry in Hohsturm, just shortly downhill from the city itself. Today, there are two shipments going out. One is the largest weapons shipment your foundry has ever shipped, the other is a small shipment of mundane goods (cookware, containers, that kind of thing) for Hohsturm. The former is being sent with an entire company of soldiers and a number of supervisors, while safely on the backs of six massive centaurs. The second shipment is being sent with only two soldiers and is strapped to the back of a single two year old centaur girl who looks a little small to be carrying all that wieght. Your characters are overseeing the latter.

 

Your first character awakes to the sounds outside, and you take control. Get your clothes from your dresser (assuming you have any) your miscellanious items from your footlocker, (assuming you have any) your money from your purse, and leave the room. Your other character is sitting in the kitchen, near your apparati. Your pantry is attached to the kitchen, and contains your ingredients. Retrieve those, and your leave. Your other character will follow you. You can switch between them through the journal, and as the game progresses, you can add more characters to your party. (Maximum is 8.)

 

Step out into a blizzard so thick you can barely see. Meet the centaur carrying your shipment, who looks to be quite uncomfortable with the massive bag on her back and is struggling to remain upright in the wind. She'll follow you as you progress, the two centaur soldiers with her will do most of the fighting. The sounds of wolves can be heard in the background. The progress is slow, and the sound of wolves gets louder as you progress. About halfway through, you come across the mutilated bodies of a couple of your katzemensch coworkers, being further mutilated by a number of isskalmar. (Kalmar are small scavengers. They're equivalent to real-world rats in this game, and are the same size. They have seven tails, but otherwise are similar in appearance. The "iss" subspecies is nearly immune to frost damage and can breath water.) Even though the isskalmar are clearly not responsible, your soldiers empty their pistols on them in a fit of rage.

 

Look at the bodies. The woman's skull is scattered on the snow, and the man's body has been crushed. They were clearly murdered with a blunt object. A frightened child drops out of the tree near the bodies, and gives you the details of his parents' death. According to him, they were killed by a trio or minotavros. One chased his mother down and killed her with a club, another chased him up the tree, and the third one, (the leader) pushed his father over and hit him with a warhammer. The child follows you until you reach the city.

 

Before you can continue, the centaur carrying your cargo gives you a carving knife and tells you to make yourselves weapons. You will need to gather some wood from the tree nearby, open the journal and activate the knife. It will prompt you as to what you want to make, and you can make any of the weapons listed if you have the wood required. I reccomend making a club or spear, but a mace, axe, hammer or sword is perfectly possible. (Wooden blades are poor, but if you're devoted to the blade skill it's still an option. You cannot make a bow because you lack anything to use for a string.) As you progress, a tree lies across the path, and the minotavros responsible are sitting on its trunk. When you get near, they stand and ready their weapons without asking any questions and assail you. The soldiers draw their swords and kill the minions with ease, but the leader slips past them and comes straight at the cargo centaur.

 

The next sequence is scripted, so you needn't interfere. The centaur drops her bags, dodges his hammer, and stabs him in the hip. He falls to one leg, and rams a horn into her stomach as a last act of defiance before she rears up and caves in his skull with her hoof. The child helps her put her bag back on, and you keep moving.

 

Stop and search the bodies of the minotavros if you wish. The bodies contain a large sum of bronze, silver and even gold coins, although the weapons are too large to use, while the leader's corpse contains a letter. Although the letter is short and lacks a signature, it makes it clear that this minotaur was a mercenary, and your shipment his target. This note should be taken to the guards in Hohsturm, although it's unlikely anything will come of it. It reads:

 

"Dearest corpsman;

 

My sire requires a service of you. Delivered with this letter is a sum of 500 Sturms as a sign of good faith. There is a small shipment of metal moving through shneesturm pass today. The schedule should be easy enough to obtain. I wish for you to stop this shipment, as my soldiers are busy with a more important matter. Do what you want with the goods, they are of little use to me. When this is complete, my messenger will return to you with a payment of 10,000 Sturms. If this task is not completed, your commanding officer will be informed, and you shall be exspelled from the corps."

 

Continue on to Hohsturm, where the guards will take the note and your centaur friend can dispose of her burden and join a centaur boy of the same age who tends to her stomach wound. The child that's been following you runs into one of the nearby houses, where he presumably has family. Although there are many people about, a dwerg in the town square stands out amongst them. All the others are dressed in ragged fur, ragged cloth and other low-class clothing, but he is dressed in decadent finery made of wolf pelts and leather. The soldiers recognize him as your company's competitor, and he looks rather unpleased to see you.

 

Your soldiers confront him, but he denies any involvement. This continues until you approach, when your soldiers are shot through the heart with arrows, and your competitor runs for the gates. The guards do nothing to stop him as he passess, so you have to pursue him yourself. As you each the log blocking the path, the howling suddenly stops and wolves run him down. One approaches you, and then nods towards the foundry. You are met by the cargo centaur and her friend from the city, who offer to carry you back to the foundry. Accept the offer and you'll be home faster, there's no downside.

 

When you arrive, the foundry is under attack. Riese have smashed the buildings and set fire to the workers' homes. They depart as you arrive, their job completed, arrows bouncing off their armour. There's nothing you can do, your home and place of business have been destroyed. The guards inform you of the attack, and the loss of the other shipment. It seems clear that the soldiers that have intercepted the shipments and destroyed your home were working for the same man. You, no longer having a reason to stay, set out for revenge, figuring the best path is to follow the shipment and try to find those responsible for the attack.

 

The rest of the game leads you to find those responsible for the attacks on the shipments and foundry, and take your revenge on the gods who let you get caught in the crossfire of their war.

 

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Edited April 29, 2011 by avianmosquito

[avianmosquito]

Their are already guns uploaded so you could get permission to use them?

 

 

Wrong kind of guns. Most of the ones in game are matchlock firearms, the crudest firearms you can imagine. The Aesir have both wheellock and flintlock firearms as well, but those are enemy-exclusive because none of your characters are large enough to wield them.

[avianmosquito]

Plenty of people have had the idea to do such a thing in the past, myself included. Few succeed in achieving such large goals however.

 

The biggest pitfalls are the amount of effort and time required to build such things. Most mods / ideas of such size do well to begin with until the team runs out of steam / gets distracted by RL. Hence why large and fully completed mods are few and far between across all mod friendly games. Those who do have the drive to continue have started to turn towards indie-game development instead as it often has a similar amount of effort except with a legitimate possibility of financial income at the end. (again, myself included)

 

I've been modding games here and there for over a decade now and have seen it time and again. It's usually younger folk (with more free time available) or those newer to the modification scene who still have boundless enthusiasm and creativity to drive them. (I used to be too hehe.) It is great to see the enthusiasm and passion though it is rare to see large projects seen to completion. There are exceptions of course but they are the few and the un-completed are the many. You only have to google around to find large projects started a year or so ago which had great promise but then fizzle out as time goes on.

 

However my aim is not to discourage you from trying. Modding is a great way to express creativity and can be great fun (though admittedly sometimes really frustrating!). I only wish to convey some advice. Although half the attraction of modding is the idea of creating something epic this is often a misleading dream...

 

My advice: Start small. Tiny even. Instead of a whole new map, try a single town or house. Even a single new character / NPC. It will help introduce you to the modding scene and teach you the skills you'll need. It will also teach you the amount of time each task will take and can give a better picture of how long your project may take. Even if you scribble out ideas for your larger project as you go along at the same time it is often a big task to create even a single NPC with a decent back-story and maybe a related quest or two.

 

Anyway, I won't ramble on for too long. Just wanted to share my 2c and wish you luck. :)

 

Oh! And why not wait for Skyrim to mod if your project is a large one?

By all means test things in Oblivion, but migrating to the new engine is exciting! (and it would be great to see a cool mod in Skyrim)

 

 

I can't wait until September. I only have summer quarter off, and college outranks gaming.

[avianmosquito]

I'm working on Unity now, actually. Thank you GODSBANE123456 for pointing me to it.

 

Sorry TESNexus, but I don't think this belongs in this forum anymore.

 

EDIT:

 

Not only that, but given that Unity isn't as restrictive, I might start off on a different kind of game anyway. (Science fiction is better for multiplayer, and contemporary is easier. Either of those would also be a compaign-based game rather than a wide-open sandbox.)

 

EDIT2:

 

Although, since Oblivion already has most of the resources I require, and I'm not proficient with Unity or Blender yet, I'll be using Oblivion and the CS to make this game, and create a contemporary game using Unity at a later time. Why the sudden change of heart? I discussed it with my friends and my fiancee, and they aren't available until summer either, not for long enough, and there aren't enough people available.

Edited April 29, 2011 by avianmosquito

[avianmosquito]

Does anybody have a canon sound effect I can use?

 

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