Nick/Nora death doesn't make sense...

[Klipperken]

Taking it from a different PoV: it does make much sense, she was shot point blank in the face. :P

[oolongdao]

My assumption is still 3 things.

1 the ammo is weaker because it's not made from the right materials.

2. nick/nora's head didn't aspload, again people can survive headshots from almost everything at least once in this universe

3 He/She was instantly refrozen even if life support didn't exist for a long enough time to kill a normal person they could've been in a deep enough coma that the cold made them go into hibernation before suffocating.

[likeitsillegal]

My assumption is still 3 things.

1 the ammo is weaker because it's not made from the right materials.

2. nick/nora's head didn't aspload, again people can survive headshots from almost everything at least once in this universe

3 He/She was instantly refrozen even if life support didn't exist for a long enough time to kill a normal person they could've been in a deep enough coma that the cold made them go into hibernation before suffocating.

1. Pure headcanon, Kellogg's pistol does 48 damage a shot. A combat shotgun in Fallout 4 does 50 damage a shot. The .44 Kellogg used is just shy of being as powerful as a shotgun and no layer of flimsy leather is going to stop it; but Nora/Nate was shot in the head.

2. Depends on where the bullet hits and what kind of bullet. A small caliber bullet might lack the energy to exit a person's skull and will actually just bounce around inside the brain. A .44 is overkill and realistically it would have probably smashed Nate/Nora's skull open as it exited. However within the limitation's of the engine, as well as the fact that Bethesda was clearly aiming for something more dramatic than gory, it is not surprising that Nate/Nora's head didn't go boom and should be no indicator of whether they died or not.

3. So are you arguing that all those ice age animals we find mummified in ice can be revived? No. Life support was half of the entire project. You know why your blood getting cold enough will damage cells to the point of requiring amputation? Because when you freeze something slowly enough, large ice crystals form that will literally rip through cells. Also most people opened up Nate/Nora's cells which would have feasibly thawed them out. Even if you didn't, Bethesda would never allow you to just to retcon the state of your spouse's pod. Hibernation is the state of your metabolism slowing down so that your body consumes less calories. This is not factually what any of Vault 111's people experienced. They were literally frozen. If the other pods killed the other inhabitants once the freezing process was reengaged, why would Nate/Nora alone be spared?

[Moraelin]

As the good railroad doctor tells you in the game, if you string too many assumptions together, you rarely get what you bargained for. In your case:

1. There is no indication in the game that any ammo is anything but pre-war. There is no handload ammo like in NV, and there is no ammo that doesn't come in a nice pre-war box.

Plus, even with weaker ammo, a .44 Magnum is a VERY powerful round. You can go as crap as you want with the load, and it will STILL be very powerful. You could even load it with black powder (not that I'd recommend it) and it will STILL be a very powerful round.

2. On the other hand, people have died from a shot to the head with even a .32 ACP, or in medieval times from a 1 inch pierce with the spike end of a lucerne hammer. Most notably Hitler shot himself in the head with his .32 PPK, and it worked just fine.

In real world 21st century terms, cranial gunshot wounds have a mortality rate of anywhere between 90% and 95%, even WITH aggressive medical intervention. About two thirds die before reaching the hospital.

Also note that this is with modern medical intervention, as immediate as possible. Even that survival rate is mostly due to immediate intervention to drain any hematoma pressing on the brain. If just left to bleed in the skull, the survival chances would be even lower.

So yeah, I guess Nora COULD have theoretically survived that, but the chances of survival are actually very small. Especially with such a powerful round as the .44, where the shockwave alone would have turned large amounts of the brain into mush.

I see no problem when what happens in a game is actually the most probable outcome of the event leading to it. The most probable RL outcome seems to me like it's also the most plausible, innit?

3. That's wrong on two levels.

3.a. Neither a coma nor cryo freezing are some kind of magical life extension. Patients in a coma most definitely need air, and still have a metabolism and excretion. They don't just magically survive on sunlight until woken up. Being in a coma just adds the additional problem of making sure they keep breathing, and they're given the nutrients and water somehow, when they're not capable of doing it themselves. You unplug the machines keeping them alive, they just die. It's that frikken simple.

3.b. On the subject of gunshot wounds to the head, going into a coma actually means you have the least chances of survival. In fact it means almost certain death. If you're in a coma by the time you reach the hospital with a cranial gunshot wound, and it's not caused by a hematom, then even the doctors probably can't save you, and most doctors will not even try any more. And if it IS caused by a blood pocket, then the doctors might be able to save you, but if just left somewhere like Nora is, you WILL die.

So basically claiming that Nora should have survived because she went into a coma, is so far off the mark, it's outright funny. It's akin to saying that someone can't have drowned because they had water in their lungs. THAT far off the mark.

Some reading on the topic:

http://www.columbianeurosurgery.org/conditions/cranial-gunshot-wounds/
http://neurosurgery.ucla.edu/cranial-gunshot-wounds

[TheOriginalEvilD]

My assumption is still 3 things.

1 the ammo is weaker because it's not made from the right materials.

2. nick/nora's head didn't aspload, again people can survive headshots from almost everything at least once in this universe

3 He/She was instantly refrozen even if life support didn't exist for a long enough time to kill a normal person they could've been in a deep enough coma that the cold made them go into hibernation before suffocating.

 

1. I don't think her head would have completely exploded and blown off like the game depicts head shot wounds to be (now, .50 BMG at that range and yeah her head is jello), but at the very least the back of her head would be blown clean off and splattered all over the inside of that cryo chamber. No coma, just instant death.

 

2. Why are we assuming the ammo is "not made from the right materials"? This game doesn't even have ammo crafting, but even if it did the damage rating is what it is, it could be firing marshmallows instead of lead but if it's doing 50 damage then it's doing 50 damage. We also have no idea what Kellogg's "perks" were, for all we know he may have been doing far more damage with that gun than it shows when we pick it up. If we have perks, it's fair to assume he did too, especially since he had those other genetic enhancements. Heck, I'm sure at that range he likely got a critical LOL. At the absolute least, I think it's safe to say that he at least had the experience and accuracy to make a clean center head shot, considering his extended life and genetic enhancements. There's just too much here to rule out anything less than a dead between the eyes head shot, which rules out the rest of the coma argument completely.

 

3. She would have been refrozen, but when you thaw her out she would've just finished bleeding out all over the place like a thawed out popsicle.

 

I hate to seem so argumentative, but I've seen way too many gun shot wounds and have been around guns in real life way too much to support any of that.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Evil D

[Moraelin]

TBH, I think it doesn't even really matter how good Kellogg is, and whether he hit the skull dead centre or not. Large caliber bullet enters the brain, pretty much you roll a 20 sided die and on anything else than a natural 20, you just die. Even if someone immediately calls an ambulance. It doesn't even have to be well aimed or a bit to the side or whatever. Unless Kellogg was drunk and managed to miss the head entirely at 5 ft range, quoth Porky Pig, "Th-th-th-that's all, folks!" :tongue:

[Klipperken]

 

I don't think her head would have completely exploded and blown off like the game depicts head shot wounds to be (now, .50 BMG at that range and yeah her head is jello), but at the very least the back of her head would be blown clean off and splattered all over the inside of that cryo chamber. No coma, just instant death.

I kinda would've loved to see this: exploding head. XD

 

Thankfully no kids play this game, lol.

[tonicmole]

I will promise everyone this. Our spouses will return. Either with DLC, or by my own hands. Frankly, it's dumb that the player character has the technology to resurrect their spouse and instead flirts with random people across the commonwealth.

[TheVampireDante]

The entire death of the spouse was badly implemented it - it was senseless to just "have it happen" as it did.

 

Mainly because if they'd sent someone with some diplomatic skills along, they could have woken up both parents, explained the situation in a calm, rational (and scientific matter) to them and asked for a few blood samples from each and worked from there.

Your playthrough from that point could have started from there.

 

1. You refuse, leading to spouse being shot and kid taken. Since Kellogg would still there as the team's "protection" detail.

2. You accept the sample taking, but not joining the institute - leaving you (and spouse) to deal with finding your kid and so on (institute snatches kid, holds you at gunpoint until they get away).

3. You go with them, and start your playthrough within the institute - leading to an escape scenario (cue railroad interaction).

4. You just wake up in the institute - find your way out in an angered/panicked state and have to find a way back inside to reclaim your family.

5. Same as 3, but you work with them for the majority of the playthrough.

 

In each case, something happens that requires the player to re-enter the cryogenics pod in order to save their life, only to be resurrected later and possibly attempting to continue where they left off, only to find out what has changed in their absence.

[tonicmole]

The entire death of the spouse was badly implemented it - it was senseless to just "have it happen" as it did.

 

Mainly because if they'd sent someone with some diplomatic skills along, they could have woken up both parents, explained the situation in a calm, rational (and scientific matter) to them and asked for a few blood samples from each and worked from there.

Your playthrough from that point could have started from there.

 

1. You refuse, leading to spouse being shot and kid taken. Since Kellogg would still there as the team's "protection" detail.

2. You accept the sample taking, but not joining the institute - leaving you (and spouse) to deal with finding your kid and so on (institute snatches kid, holds you at gunpoint until they get away).

3. You go with them, and start your playthrough within the institute - leading to an escape scenario (cue railroad interaction).

4. You just wake up in the institute - find your way out in an angered/panicked state and have to find a way back inside to reclaim your family.

5. Same as 3, but you work with them for the majority of the playthrough.

 

In each case, something happens that requires the player to re-enter the cryogenics pod in order to save their life, only to be resurrected later and possibly attempting to continue where they left off, only to find out what has changed in their absence.

I'd imagine Bethesda probably wanted to have the story more involved with the rest of the game, but players freaked bad enough with having a fleshed out back story. Personally I felt Fallout really needed that anchor to help flesh out the world. I'd actually prefered more references to your prewar life. It'd been cool to play as both spouses, and be able to swap back and forth.