Joseph Stalin

[vampirefaeries]

Both of you are severely mistaken --- perhaps more so than those interviewed in the film the OP saw.

 

The principal leaders of Russia immediately after its withdrawal from World War I were Lenin and Trotsky. Stalin played no major role in any of the revolutions leading up to this event --- actually supporting the provisional government of 1917, which the October Revolution overthrew --- and was appointed to an officer position in the Red Army during the civil war that followed. He slowly gained power in the years thereafter, doing nothing remarkable with his newfound abilities except for the purpose of gaining popularity. Trotsky, meanwhile, led the October Revolution and commanded the Red Army during the civil war, serving alongside Lenin until his death in 1924. Upon Lenin's death, Stalin named himself the de facto leader of Russia and exiled Trotsky, whom he later had assassinated.

 

On the eve of World War II, Stalin ran frightened and tried desperately to arrange for the Marxists' traditional enemy, Britain, to defend Russia. When that brilliant plan failed, he then negotiated a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany. In accordance with the pact, Stalin invaded Poland along with Hitler, taking the eastern portions of the country for himself.

 

Deciding that his master plan for Communist-hating Germany and ostensibly-Communist Russia to be forever in peace and share a border would be a success, Stalin led the Red Army into Finland, effectively forcing himself to fight two unrelated wars on three fronts should Hitler decide to break said pact. (Luckily for him, however, Russia was in control of Finland before this event happened, although at great loss to the Red Army.) When Hitler inevitably broke said pact, Stalin proceeded to bravely sit with his proverbial thumb up his proverbial ass until Germany's military was quite literally at his doorstep. What did Stalin do to save the day? After such devastating defeats, how did the Red Army possibly manage to not only drive the German military out of Russia, but also take Berlin before the Americans? He gave up and let his generals control the Red Army; as per prior arrangements, of course, Joe took all credit for what happened afterward.

 

Stalin's domestic policies very closely mirrored the haphazard and incompetent manner in which he directed the Russian wartime effort. Any portion of Lenin and Trotsky's industrialization strategy that Stalin chose to continue was facilitated directly by the resources of the Russian citizen due to Stalin's deluded, hopelessly nationalistic, and outright absurd economic policies. The conditions under which Russians lived --- Stalin and his newly-created class of bureaucrats excluded --- declined dramatically in the period between a few years before he took power to a few years after. Soviet Russia during and after Stalin could not be described as Fascist, and it certainly could not be described as Communist. It was simply an ad hoc arrangement of a deeply bureaucratic system of government, created by a cowardly, insecure, mentally defective, incompetent man who wanted nothing other than to be worshipped like a God by the largest nation in the world, no matter how many people had to suffer to make that happen. Every facet of Russian government and culture during this time was specifically engineered to provide this for him, and then to delay this house of cards from falling down for as long as possible.

 

 

HEAR, HEAR!!!

[hoots7]

Devil,

Joseph Stalin was brute & a self centered bully, he did not have his country's best interest in mind, he had his. As been noted previously, he did shift his allegiances when it served him.

And yes he was paranoid, remember he had his teachers killed just because of the possibility they may have reveled something unflattering about him.

He got lucky with the Russian winter or they would have been overtaken.

The victories he won were by attrition & not superior military tactics.

[jojo man]

Devil,

Joseph Stalin was brute & a self centered bully, he did not have his country's best interest in mind, he had his. As been noted previously, he did shift his allegiances when it served him.

And yes he was paranoid, remember he had his teachers killed just because of the possibility they may have reveled something unflattering about him.

He got lucky with the Russian winter or they would have been overtaken.

The victories he won were by attrition & not superior military tactics.

I agree. But to me it's not even about wether or not Stalin was looking out for the countrys well-being or his own or if he was a skilled and brilliant military commander or a complete jackass. To me it's about the fact that he caused the death of millions and could order the deaths of others for no real reason whatsoever (per the example in the quote above). As far as i'm concerned there is absolutely no way to justify that, no matter how honorable or dishonorable his intentions might have been.

 

To summarize, In my OPINION no matter how brilliant a commander he was, no matter how much he may or may not have wanted to help his country, He still commited genocide and for that there can be absolutely no justification or redemption.

[Landsknecht]

one of the top three mass murders=devil

 

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/tyrants.htm

[hoots7]

Devil,

Joseph Stalin was brute & a self centered bully, he did not have his country's best interest in mind, he had his. As been noted previously, he did shift his allegiances when it served him.

And yes he was paranoid, remember he had his teachers killed just because of the possibility they may have reveled something unflattering about him.

He got lucky with the Russian winter or they would have been overtaken.

The victories he won were by attrition & not superior military tactics.

I agree. But to me it's not even about wether or not Stalin was looking out for the countrys well-being or his own or if he was a skilled and brilliant military commander or a complete jackass. To me it's about the fact that he caused the death of millions and could order the deaths of others for no real reason whatsoever (per the example in the quote above). As far as i'm concerned there is absolutely no way to justify that, no matter how honorable or dishonorable his intentions might have been.

 

To summarize, In my OPINION no matter how brilliant a commander he was, no matter how much he may or may not have wanted to help his country, He still commited genocide and for that there can be absolutely no justification or redemption.

 

You are absolutely, positively right!

Don't think for a minute that just because I didn't mention how much I hated his murdering actions that means I think he was a swell guy, far from it. You are preaching to the choir here brother!

[jojo man]

Devil,

Joseph Stalin was brute & a self centered bully, he did not have his country's best interest in mind, he had his. As been noted previously, he did shift his allegiances when it served him.

And yes he was paranoid, remember he had his teachers killed just because of the possibility they may have reveled something unflattering about him.

He got lucky with the Russian winter or they would have been overtaken.

The victories he won were by attrition & not superior military tactics.

I agree. But to me it's not even about wether or not Stalin was looking out for the countrys well-being or his own or if he was a skilled and brilliant military commander or a complete jackass. To me it's about the fact that he caused the death of millions and could order the deaths of others for no real reason whatsoever (per the example in the quote above). As far as i'm concerned there is absolutely no way to justify that, no matter how honorable or dishonorable his intentions might have been.

 

To summarize, In my OPINION no matter how brilliant a commander he was, no matter how much he may or may not have wanted to help his country, He still commited genocide and for that there can be absolutely no justification or redemption.

 

You are absolutely, positively right!

Don't think for a minute that just because I didn't mention how much I hated his murdering actions that means I think he was a swell guy, far from it. You are preaching to the choir here brother!

My sincere apologies hoots, I honestly didn't mean to imply that you thought he was a cool guy or that the other things about Stalin you mentioned were more important than the genocide he commited. And in hindsight that is really what my comment seemed to suggest. For this, again, I am deeply sorry.

[hoots7]

Devil,

Joseph Stalin was brute & a self centered bully, he did not have his country's best interest in mind, he had his. As been noted previously, he did shift his allegiances when it served him.

And yes he was paranoid, remember he had his teachers killed just because of the possibility they may have reveled something unflattering about him.

He got lucky with the Russian winter or they would have been overtaken.

The victories he won were by attrition & not superior military tactics.

I agree. But to me it's not even about wether or not Stalin was looking out for the countrys well-being or his own or if he was a skilled and brilliant military commander or a complete jackass. To me it's about the fact that he caused the death of millions and could order the deaths of others for no real reason whatsoever (per the example in the quote above). As far as i'm concerned there is absolutely no way to justify that, no matter how honorable or dishonorable his intentions might have been.

 

To summarize, In my OPINION no matter how brilliant a commander he was, no matter how much he may or may not have wanted to help his country, He still commited genocide and for that there can be absolutely no justification or redemption.

 

You are absolutely, positively right!

Don't think for a minute that just because I didn't mention how much I hated his murdering actions that means I think he was a swell guy, far from it. You are preaching to the choir here brother!

My sincere apologies hoots, I honestly didn't mean to imply that you thought he was a cool guy or that the other things about Stalin you mentioned were more important than the genocide he commited. And in hindsight that is really what my comment seemed to suggest. For this, again, I am deeply sorry.

Hey JoJo Man,

No harm and no offense taken, it's cool.

[delphinus]

I didn't read all the thread, but i surely vote for "devil", without any doubts. One of the worst brutal mass murderer in history.

 

But let me say another thing or two: It's wrong to compare communism and nazi-fascism as the same thing. I'm not talking about the men who led these dictatorships, but about the ideologies. The communism comes from a social and philosophical doctrine, which tried to imagine a society with no conflicts, and the revolution in Russia in early 900 saved an entire people from hunger and oppression. No one of these things fit in the nazi fascist theory. Racial laws came out in germany and italy almost at the same time, and it caused the death of millions people in the horrible way that we all know.

 

Sure, the same thing happened in russia, and it was no less brutal than the nazifascist way, but it came after. The planned extermination of millions people in the gulags wasn't in the purpose of the revolution, or am i wrong?

[jojo man]

I didn't read all the thread, but i surely vote for "devil", without any doubts. One of the worst brutal mass murderer in history.

 

But let me say another thing or two: It's wrong to compare communism and nazi-fascism as the same thing. I'm not talking about the men who led these dictatorships, but about the ideologies. The communism comes from a social and philosophical doctrine, which tried to imagine a society with no conflicts, and the revolution in Russia in early 900 saved an entire people from hunger and oppression. No one of these things fit in the nazi fascist theory. Racial laws came out in germany and italy almost at the same time, and it caused the death of millions people in the horrible way that we all know.

 

Sure, the same thing happened in russia, and it was no less brutal than the nazifascist way, but it came after. The planned extermination of millions people in the gulags wasn't in the purpose of the revolution, or am i wrong?

I agree. Communism was concieved with the aims of creating a very 'brotherly love where all are equal' kind of society. Fascism on the other-hand serves to protect the well-being of the state and ONLY the state.

[DedBanzay]

Hello all! Thats an interesting tread so im gonna say some words about that. I'm russian by the way so u could learn a common russian guys's opinion about Stalin. I sure vote for devil, :rolleyes: dont be surprised! And i completely disagree with the guys who said that Stalin was a great leader(general) during the war. Im telling u he was not. The general whom u should refer as a great general was Jukov. So in fact he and his team won the war, not stalin. After the war Stalin was afraid of Jukov's influence so he made him a governer of far away province. Stalin really was paranoid!

 

P.S.: im really sorry for all my mistakes =)