Ripped content and the copyright laws

[Moire]

I didn't start this topic to provoke but to discuss the current situation with ripped content so try to keep your tone civil. To begin with I can't see any harm in people using content from other games in Oblivion, not to the games or to the creators of the content. You don't play WoW or Aion just because there is an armor in it that you like. You play it because it has good gameplay and graphics, or because it provides opportunities that you can't get in other games. I know the copyright rules are there to protect the creator's work but right now it's just in the way it seems. I see many people here who get in trouble because of it. Don't you think the laws/rules have to be adjusted a bit to benefit "The innocent user"? It's actually possible to protect the work by saying you are only allowed to use it to modify your own game or other people's games but you are not allowed to share it with a company and all companies needs copyright. That would be enough.

 

If I created an armor or a hairstyle for a game I wouldn't mind if someone wanted to use it in another game but I would mind if they tried to sell it to a company. I know it won't make a difference talking about it here but it's interesting to realize the shortcomings in modern law and it's more of a theoretical discussion than trying to change the world, but I still hope someone in a high position will see it and start thinking.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Moire

[Quetzlsacatanango]

I don't think it's a shortcoming in the law for the owners of artistic content to be able to determine how it's used.

You don't mind for your content, and that's great, but not everyone will feel the same about theirs.

If some company, who paid artists to come up with art for their game don't want it to be publicly distributed for free, what's wrong with that? Some companies, like GSC who makes STALKER, think there is at least no harm to them, and maybe some benefit, to allow it, so they do. Which is their call, as it should be.

[David Brasher]

I think free public libraries of books are an interesting phenomenon. (They have been around for a couple of hundred years now, so the revolutionary and distressing aspects of them have been forgotten.) A public library full of books is a nest of pirates. A den of copyright infringers. Having the books available so that anyone can read them without paying robs the authors of most of their royalties. People can read their works without paying a penny.

 

I am not anti-library. I really love to go to the library and check out books. But this example shows how attitudes change over time and how difficult it is to protect intellectual property rights. Free stuff is great and people love it. But it could be argued that if there were no copyright laws, then some of the most talented writers, musicians, and programmers would not work in their fields, and consumers would be left with a bunch of lower quality drivel made by amateurs.

[MarkInMKUK]

Just a comment or two here... mostly based on UK Copyright.

 

NO-ONE can stop you exporting and converting an object FOR YOUR OWN USE. However, if you then make that object available to others, THEN you hit the copyright area.

 

A point of commercial relevance - if a company (Say Bethesda) pays a second company to develop an item FOR A SPECIFIC GAME (e.g. Oblivion), then the subcontract company reserves all rights to other use of that item. If Bethesda then wishes to use the same item in , for example, Fallout 3, then they would have to pay a licensing fee for the additional use of that item in the second game. This occurred when Oblivion came out, and modders wanted to use items from Morrowind - the licensing agreement meant that Bethesda were legally obliged to refuse permission to export / import objects, scripts, etc.

 

The problem REALLY comes in where you have two games with very similar capabilities, and hence have to minimal work (or even no work at all) to export the object. At that point you have "stolen" someone's intellectual property rights, and passed the result along.

 

As an alternative, using someone else's design and re-creating it from scratch is plagiariam, but as you have only used their concept and not their information, it is arguable that you are not infringing copyright.

 

If, however, you start with the original object, and then add to it to convert it for a game capable of more complexity, you are into the really murky area which, in paper copyright terms, would be the "fair use" section, limiting you to reproducing not more than 10% of the original publication. Yes, you are adding to an object using your own labour, but you are still using the original item. At that point, you would be infringing copyright unless you could prove you had added more than 9 times the original amount of content. That's nigh on impossible to prove, so here (and many other places) there is a blanket ban on "exported/imported conversion" work.

[Lisnpuppy]

Also Dark0ne (as far as I know has not taken over the world) can not himself change copyright laws. His job is to protect this site and also the people associated with it. As such allowing content like this would be disastrous for the site and no doubt his wallet should a company/artist come and want to exercise those copyright laws.

 

I have stated my opinion before on the screenshot issue with ripped content and will not do so again here, but I completely understand the mindset behind it. Far easier for him to not allow the content, links to the content and wide-ranging discussion of the content than to micromanage this issue and look at every post and picture over the thousands that are here.

 

This appears to be something that may bother you a great deal. I don't think anything is going to change here, Moire....you may want to let this one go for your sanity's sake. Otherwise you may want to begin petitioning your local lawmakers.

 

:thumbsup:

 

edit: for spelling error

Edited May 16, 2011 by Lisnpuppy

[Moire]

I don't think it's a shortcoming in the law for the owners of artistic content to be able to determine how it's used.

You don't mind for your content, and that's great, but not everyone will feel the same about theirs.

If some company, who paid artists to come up with art for their game don't want it to be publicly distributed for free, what's wrong with that? Some companies, like GSC who makes STALKER, think there is at least no harm to them, and maybe some benefit, to allow it, so they do. Which is their call, as it should be.

 

It is my opinion that if I pay for a game, I have the right to use it as I want if it doesn't hurt the creator or the publisher. Giving people free access to the game will hurt them, because that would make them lose income, so that's piracy but if I take an armor from that game and give it to other people, it doesn't hurt anyone, because no one makes money by converting their content to other games. That would just be stupid. I'm not against copyright. I'm just against the limits it puts up for the user but I guess it's a complicated issue with no perfect solution that makes everyone happy.

 

@David Brasher

 

You are right in a way. The solution to that would be if the authors could choose if their books should be allowed in libraries or not but then most authors would say no and our libraries would be pointless, which might be harmful to education and culture. Every department is different and should be treated different in the law. I don't know all the details about libraries rights so excuse me if I said something wrong. I'm assuming they have rights to buy what books they want.

[chakaru11]

There actually are several threads about this in the Feedback area, moderated by the staff. It might be a good idea to take this over there?

 

Anyways. It is true that no one can stop you from editing the custom content of a game you legally purchased. But every single game you buy comes with terms of use and by purchasing the game you AGREED to those. You can't just ignore those as you see fit. It does not matter how pretty something is and how much you think "I want that".

 

I have been a modder for other games for years and I am like you, I shared all my stuff with only few exceptions. But not everyone thinks like that and professional companies surely do NOT.

 

This whole ordeal is not about you converting stuff from other games to Oblivion for personal use, it's about the sharing. And a lot of people here use the Nexus as a platform to share ripped content via PM etc etc. And I can understand that the Nexus staff has to draw the line somewhere to protect themselves from possible lawsuits.

 

I am NOT agreeing to the whole "no ripped stuff in screenshots" ordeal, because let's face it, that could very well be photoshopped and no one can really say what is in your game and what isn't. But the not sharing ripped content here part? Yeah, I can understand that.

[Moire]

Also Dark0ne (as far as I know has not taken over the world) can not himself change copyright laws. His job is to protect this site and also the people associated with it. As such allowing content like this would be disastrous for the site and no doubt his wallet should a company/artist come and want to exercise those copyright laws.

 

I have stated my opinion before on the screenshot issue with ripped content and will not do so again here, but I completely understand the mindset behind it. Far easier for him to not allow the content, links to the content and wide-ranging discussion of the content than to micromanage this issue and look at every post and picture over the thousands that are here.

 

This appears to be something that may bother you a great deal. I don't think anything is going to change here, Moire....you may want to let this one go for your sanity's sake. Otherwise you may want to begin petitioning your local lawmakers.

 

:thumbsup:

 

edit: for spelling error

 

You are right. It's best to let it go because now I realize what a waste of time and energy it is to even question it. I'm going to blame my argumentative side. We all have one, don't we? ;) Thanks for clearing that up and making my day easier.

 

Edit: Also for spelling error

Edited May 16, 2011 by Moire

[Lisnpuppy]

Also Dark0ne (as far as I know has not taken over the world) can not himself change copyright laws. His job is to protect this site and also the people associated with it. As such allowing content like this would be disastrous for the site and no doubt his wallet should a company/artist come and want to exercise those copyright laws.

 

I have stated my opinion before on the screenshot issue with ripped content and will not do so again here, but I completely understand the mindset behind it. Far easier for him to not allow the content, links to the content and wide-ranging discussion of the content than to micromanage this issue and look at every post and picture over the thousands that are here.

 

This appears to be something that may bother you a great deal. I don't think anything is going to change here, Moire....you may want to let this one go for your sanity's sake. Otherwise you may want to begin petitioning your local lawmakers.

 

:thumbsup:

 

edit: for spelling error

 

You are right. It's best to let it go because now I realize what a waste of time and energy it is to even question it. I'm going to blame my argumentative side. We all have one, don't we? ;) Thanks for clearing that up and making my day easier.

 

Edit: Also for spelling error

 

 

We sure all do, Moire. But sometimes you just have to admit when you are beat! :tongue:

[bben46]

As was already said, there are topics on this already in existence elsewhere on the site, and as I see the OP has come around, I'll close this one. But not before I put in my two cents worth.

 

It is not the Job of the Nexus to make copyright laws, or to enforce them. We are not likely to take you to court over someone elses copyright. However it is our job to make a reasonable effort to keep infringements out for our own and our membership's protection.

 

When we ban someone for copyright infringement, that is not copyright enforcement, it is to prevent us, and you, from being accused of aiding and abetting infringement. Enforcement is when you get a nasty letter from a lawyer demanding you pay 100 times what the stolen content was worth or be sued for 1000 times the value in a court where they get to make the rules. We don't want to be the recipient of that letter. :sad:

 

Bben46, Moderator