New Texture mod WIP

[xander2077]

the only two i really think are horrendous still are the two with the dwemer script on the front of them. but i areally have not figured out how to make them better yet. i either have to remake the script differently, or just ditch it all together in favor of a textured script that is smaller and with a lot more letters, and perhaps even a stone mural on each.

 

the reason i chose to rework them instead of making them from scratch is because i am not sure if they need a bounding box for collision in game, and the existing one would work better than trying to make a new one. but im sure i will have to learn that as well.

 

the only one besides the one i accidentally deleted the bounding box for and could not figure out how to get it back, that will have problems with a bounding box, is the platform i added stairs to. i figure if it is places where they are not buried, then those stairs will need a bounsing box. most of the time it is buried, much like the two with script on them, but there are a few places it is not buried.

 

i also want to wreck them more than just a couple of them having chunks blown out of them.

 

im also kind of rethinking the roofs of some of them. im not sure if they should have domed roofs or like i have modifies them.

 

i still did not do the dwemer tower yet, but that sould be remade completely. i never liked the cartoony mushroom look of it so i would give it a larger base and if it were at all similar, it would be much more imposing. the only room i think is a valid interior on that tower is the top room in the game, so it has to stay circular there, but the interior ceiling can change as well if the roof changes its shape.

 

the only thing really getting a drastic makeover would be the entrance. that one is probably the most thrown together of them all, even though the concept art says otherwise, sometimes i think they made the art to fit the models... but even though i do like the spherical door puzzle, where there is a time limit to get inside, i dont really like the look of the doors. the skyrim doors were much better. but i dont want to go completely skyrim either, because these dwemer were of a different clan than the ones in skyrim, and there should be similarities, but only to a degree, which is true in real life as well among closely related cultures. anyway the shape of the netrance has to go, and i have no idea what kind of door model to change it out for. whether that would be the circular one that is used for interiors and put the same autoclose animation on it, or make a new one and then have to revamp all the doors entirely.

 

i was curious if you made the elevator to be the entrance for the ruins and if so how does it look? i think a scaled down version would be cool to have for replacing the shoddy elevators scattered in dwemer ruins, which are just plain polygons textured to match. those were definitely rushed. there are just some things that scream terrible in there.

 

i have no idea what to add to these other than making them roughly the same size.

 

but i think you can tell from these pics what im going for. very heavy angular and molded cornices, with sharp features. of course the towers here so far are thinner than what i would expect dwemer to have, but im curious to see what your take would be on them?

 

i also wonder if there was a particle emitter on the stacks on the one that sticks out of the side of hills and has the three stacks. if there was then i deleted them and there were 6.

 

the steam stack still needs a makeover so i will probably find out then if that is true.

 

one of the things i would love to try is making the dwemer walker an actual machine you can build from the parts laying around, and ride like a pack animal. since they have redone the guars to be rideable and there are horse mods for morrowind, im sure that can be figured out somehow. but the animations would be funny since i dont think there is any mounted bow animations and i dont know if skeletons can me grafted, or if it can only be set up as a separate animation that only works if the rider has stopped the walker. but i read something where that was true in a forum where someone wanted to do the same and was disappointed to find that the bastilla mod contained a giant crossbow that overencumbered the player when he got it out and had a regular dwemer crossbow instead of the bastilla model.

 

i extracted those nifs as well to mess with. since there are a few dwemer ruins that have them sitting outside like furniture.

 

i never imbibe while meshing around... lol

 

i think it is funny how they name these programs, you would think a drunkard developed that one. there are some that are more odd though. and usually it is someone trying to think of an acronym that designates what the program is... or isn't, but some are just plain stupid, like gnome calculator is galculator... and gimp was originally supposed to mean gnome image manipulator program or something. usually they choose a name to tell you what it isn't. like wine means wine is not an emulator. linux means linux is not unix. gnu means gnu is not unix, etc... http://www.networkworld.com/article/2226432/opensource-subnet/examining-the-ridiculous-names-of-open-source-projects.html

 

and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

i think to day im going to watch one of my shows and then maybe mesh around some more. still have not decided what to do yet, but it will come to me.

 

if you want to make some buildings from scratch then by all means have at it. and then if you want i can compare them to the ones i redid and see if there is a potential for replacing those here and there. if so then i can always just try and make them the same style. or if you dont mind handing them off for detailing i would not have a problem doing that.

 

or what we could do is just make the ruins even better by adding buildings to the CS to give more variety to the ruins and expand them. if there are some that overlap or look better than mine, then those get preference for the main ruins. which ones do you think need to be replaced entirely? i think the towers i reworked are about as close to what i want them to be, but the ground buildings are still not quite up to par. if you do a quick study of ruins on google, then it is obvious these dwemer ruins were not following real life examples. and i really would like to get them closer to that if possible. the half walls and corner walls that i showed are about as good as they should be, and i even went the extra mile and made them more jagged, since i think it is funny how the modelers made them look as if they were destroyed in a more orderly fashion. that just doesnt happen. in ruins there are busted up statues and columns, and vast empty temples with open spaces and no roof. stuff you can walk around in and nothing to do in them. they got closer in tribunal, but that is still a far cry from what it could be as well... but keep in mind with things like that there has to be a new walk mesh added in to each one that has interiors you can walk around in from the ground, or the player will just get stuck in them, or even worse, be able to walk right through them. that is kind of why i went with the vanilla models and reworked them. becasue i dont know how to do that yet.

 

so would you be game for that? if you are not comfortable with making them look wrecked i think im pretty good at that part, i could take the base model and add that detailing in.

 

yes i know my spelling is atrocious, but i cant seem to find a decent spell check for firefox any more, and the new ones all have these stupid words in them or even worse spelling than i already have. and i need a very accurate spell checker since i type a lot and dont ever get around to correcting all of it.

 

EDIT: i just had an epiphany on the two with script on them. the one that is kind of like a treehouse needs to be sitting on columns. now the reason why is it usually is buried anyway, and it wont change the mechanics much, but it cant change much on top since the player actually gets to walk on there in some instances in the ruins when opening doors to hidden treasure during some quests... si that is anotehr reason to stick close to the original shape even though it needs to change to look better...

 

anyway i will be listening to some old smashing pumpkins and redoing those.

Edited March 6, 2016 by xander2077

[RubberMan01]

Listing to the Stranglers here.

 

Didn't have time to read all that lol but I did speed read most of it.

 

I personally would change every external model to a completely different design. What I don't know lol

 

I like the ones in Skyrim much more and I would be inclined to go down that route instead of the stone and tin excuses they made for an advanced civ.

 

As for the lift (sorry I'm English :D it pains me to write elevator haha) I made well, you actually stand in it and press the buttons and it goes up and down with you on it to the next level.

 

The idea for that was from Half Life (1). I didn't like the way it had to load in the next level rather than actually being in a lift.

 

I also added many traps to and a new style door you opened with something called an atonement sphere (acts like a key) that you place on a pedestal (with hands) and it opened the door (then popped itself back in your bag, like a key)

 

Unfortunately I stupidly put all my screen shots on Imageshack lol so I no longer have them. I may just try and grab the work from my old hard drive some time so you can see how much effort went into it all. (we are talking MONTHS)

 

Catch up later mate. Doing wife things.

[xander2077]

well. i stopped modeling for the time being, due to many reasons, some mundane, and some because i need to step up my game with gimp and blender. im going to see if i can install the newest version of blender and try using it for the real modeling, and just use the old one to export them to morrowind format. because the tools are lacking in 2.49b, and i know there are better scripts and actions in the new one. if the new blend files are backward compatible, then i have no problems. they should be, but you never know what to expect. the reason why i realized i need to up my game was because i remodeled the dwemer walker body, and added a seat there and removed some of the silly bits on there. and the legs are two separate models, so if i want them to look the same, i have to mirror them. and 2.49b is not user friendly when it comes to that, so a native newer version blender might be better as well as provide some other functions i cant get from 2,49b. as long as i can take them back in the old blender, im golden.

 

i also found a lot of cool brushes for textures that i really needed to go further with the armor. and so i am learning those as well, becoming familiar with them so they are easier to identify and use when i need them. and i need to get that done and released soon. but doing the textures first is necessary so i can replace the model in the ground meshes seamlessly, and then adjust them as needed in blender. that way the stuff on the shelf is the same as what the player can wear. it would be silly to make a new set of armor and not make the ground mesh look the same as what the player can wear.

 

i get why there needs to be different models in the dwemer ruins, and i agree i would personally rather see something more similar to skyrim. i may just do that, but for now i want to try and get these made so they at least have some familiarity, and they can be placed easily without a plugin. they are simple replacer models. so they will fit exactly where the old ones will and not have to be rearranged in the CS. that is important for a simpler mod, and i may also offer alternative models for the same vanilla building replacers, now more squarish like skyrim buildings, and one closer to the originals. variety is the spice of life. sure it is more work, but i think people will like the options.

 

the few that i think really need redoing completely (non towers, steam pipes etc) can be remade closer to skyrim specs than the vanilla ones and still fit the landscape as intended, but for a better depth of feel, there has to be buildings added to the original tile set and you almost have to dig into the CS and rearrange every single ruin so that it presents better than the vanilla ones.

 

i like your lift idea. and i also like the doors idea.

 

i tracked down some concept art from the guys at skywind, and i like their concepts a lot. so i will be taking cues from them, but give them my own personal style as well. basically they fall in the same lines as what i think dwemer stuff should look like.

 

anyway for now i have to get up and go run some errands and fix this truck, needs a brake line replaces, and i have to get one fabricated, then bleed the lines. then maybe i can get back to doing some more models.

 

all in all i think you are right about making them different. finding a balance for the pluginless part though is going to be interesting. anythng else though has to be done in the CS and i have no experience with that, and openmwCS wont allow me to do the same things as the vanilla CS. it is not a complete yet, so the tools are stunted compared to the vanilla one.

 

as far as the interiors go, now that i have a better idea of the concepts i have seen, and can take cues from it, those tile sets will be easier to modify and replace parts of. it will give the interiors a whole new look and i can keep some of the general shapes the same so they still fit together the same way in the CS. they wont appear grans unless the vanilla ruin is already set up that way, but they will be better looking overall. but i think they also need additional items added to the vanilla tile set to work well visually, so there again, im going to need help with placing things and making the mod work. i am cluesless when it comes to the ESP creation thing, and have not really done much modding besides textures and models that just replace existing ones.

 

what i really want to do as well is make the statues have mroe variety. like some that have fallen over, or got blown in half. or different statues that are not the standard dwemer with a poleaxe and shield. like maybe a soldier in armor standing proud, or some of their most revered technicians and scholars. and things like that have to be aded to the CS.

 

i also want to do some temples that can be walked through. the pedistal was just an example of the potential there is for the ruins. im not sure i even like it much any more.

 

but for some models, even replacing them has to be within certain parameters, that is why i chose to use the vanilla ones as a base. when you walk out a door in the ruins and find yourself outside, only to find that the ruin has changed and a treasure you need for a quest is floating in mid air because the building changed shape, or is in the building and only acessible by using the console, then it changes too much. so even if i completely rebuild them, they need to have some dimensions unchanged. so each model will have to be troubleshot once they are replaced to make sure they dont land on any treasure and hide it, and so that if a door opens so you walk on top of one, you can still find whatever is out there on a ledge or something.

 

the only one i am not sure about, but seem to remember being able to walk on the ledge outside, was one of the towers, with the gables, and so i may have to add some doors there or make sure the trigger still works to get in and out. getting rid of the gables may have erased that. morrowind can be testy sometimes, which is part of the reason why most people dont do model repalcers that change too much. but i want, like you, to have a better dwemer tileset, that is not goofy.

[xander2077]

here are a few more changes i made to two vanilla style models, and i like the first one better than the second. the second needs to be redone completely, the columns dont quite work for me, and the overall shape of the building is still coming off as goofy in places. now i did reduce the size of the carved runes, and that will probably be transferred to any models for the same building, but im really not liking these as much as the towers.

 

i agree the buildings need to fall into more square angular lines and really look like grand ruins. these two especially dont pull it off...

 

im really dreading the bridge, since it needs a makeover too, but the vision i have never quite pans out when im in blender.

 

perhaps i just need to go in each model, and delete the darned things and create new stuff from scratch using examples from skyrim and other sources besides morrowind. i think as long as i keep the bounding box intact as a guide of the acceptable borders, then i can get better results than trying to rework these.

 

http://i.share.pho.to/7ce39783_o.png

 

http://i.share.pho.to/b2717866_o.png

[RubberMan01]

Ok I read all that this time lol

 

Yes. The adjustments you have made appear to be better than the originals.

 

As for changing things in the CS I don't see that as a problem to be honest. An esp is usually preferred for the simple reason 1 click can disable it if you decide to go vanilla.

 

Re-modelling them all to be similar to Skyrim would be fun! I wouldn't like to texture them haha but sure I wouldn't mind meshing them and placing them in the CS.

 

I would also love some of the cave's and other ruins to be more like barrows as well.

 

This is soooo bad;

 

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/Simon_Griffiths/vanilla.jpg

 

Much more what I would like to achieve;

 

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb431/Simon_Griffiths/sky.jpg

 

I don't like the bloody round doors either and think the big golden doors Syrimesque would be much nicer.

Edited March 7, 2016 by RubberMan01

[xander2077]

well the round doors are not bad in and of themselves, maybe here in a few hours i will modify one of those to have more detail and then you can imagine a kickass texture for it, anyway it is not that it is a bad concept, but terrible execution. if they had more detail and beter textures they would be acceptable by most people. although i too would like to see more skyrimesque doors, im not sure what door model to base them off of that will fit into a dwemer tileset, and not clip, not be too tall or too short, and not look stupid... and it just seems smarter to work with the tileset layout than against it. of course maybe the answer is not in the vanilla ruins, but in the tribunal ruins. or a mixture of both. in fact that may be easier to implement, a redo of the tribunal models of interiors and replacing some of the interiors with aprts of redone tribunal dwemer ruins as well... im not sure yet what that all intails.

 

im thinking maybe one of the imperial doors (if there are any really tall ones) could be used for exterior entrances, but still not sure about the interior ones besides making the round ones look way better.

[xander2077]

well i just looked at the doors, and i guess i cant really do anything else to add detail to them other than something that would probably make them look stupid, i could attempt it, but i think if they have to be used in some spots it would be better to just retexture the models, and i think RR mods or someone else already smoothed them out more anyway the right way. its one of thsoe things, in some instances they work, but in some cases they dont. i think for side rooms they are ok, but main doors leading from one level to another need to be more dramatic.

 

that is why i wanted to try and make the tribunal ruins tileset over and see if they can be used for the main ruins as well. a good mix of the two would tie them in together, and also make for a more epic version of standard dwemer ruins. but that is going to take a lot of time and ingenuity to pull off. the tribunal walls are just flat as can be in the large halls, and they need to be more like molding, and once those are done over, then the same style can be applied to the smaller hallways and corridors.

 

i may do ruin 40 and 50 over tonight instead, but im tired, and hardly motivated to do much tonight. it has been a long couple of weeks, and i really buggered up a brake line today and have to go get another one tomorrow because i put the fitting on backwards. wasted half a day waiting for the guy to put a special flare on it, and then bent the tubing up really pretty, and the fitting was on backwards with no room to trim and redo the flare.

 

it is definitely a monday...

[RubberMan01]

Lol Mondays for me mean nothing mate. When I do work it's 7 days a week, every week and on call 24 hours a day haha

 

Checking wife's computer.... she was play testing my Dwemer stuff - perhaps still has it. BBS

 

Managed to find it! Anyway. Check the post "My dwemer ruins" to see what I mean. Unfortunately the pics are bad/ too dark. Needs video to appreciate it to.

Edited March 8, 2016 by RubberMan01

[xander2077]

i finally took a look at it, yes that is a good start. just think it needs some refinement, beveling and profiling. but then again my own models need that as well. i did manage to get them working in the new version of blender, and the tools there are so much better, such as insetting, which i really missed from max. still have not found a good way to snap faces to a plane (xyz) without changing the angle or going all wonky (a blender deficiency in my book) but i figure if i build the part based on a simple geometry and alingn it correctly to begin with before adding detail then i wont have to worry about correcting face orientation. like the skywalks can be parts that are separate from the tower, etc. now that i have done some tweaking to the one that looks kind of like a balcony/treehouse sticking out of the rocks (i think it is ruin 50) i figured out the best way to make the models complex without having a lot of beveled faces and unnecessary tris. and that was to separate the platforms and walls into their own parts, and possibly the roofs as well. this is good for developing details, because it means i can get more complex without having to compete with other parts of the model or invading their geometry. so i decided to take the ruin and make it more stacked pagoda style. which is more in line with the skyrim ruins to a degree but still unique enough, and i will use that as the example build for the other ruins in terms of how it is all divided up. so columns and walls will not be one huge model, but parts, similar to some of the stuff in vanilla ruins already, but much better executed.

 

it is far from done, i think the simple extrude and scaling down to smaller faces needs to be scrapped in favor of a more thoughtful approach. this will do a couple of things, it will reduce the build time (duplicate can be used instead of trying to make everything match up around the model) and it can have more details that you would find in real ruins. so all those towers and vanilla models i played around with will drastically change due to a rethinking of it. they will be assembled out of parts that can be swapped out depending on the type of ruin it is, and the look it needs to have to be cohesive but complex.

 

anyway, i think flat walls that have been enhanced by some new stonework profiling, and columns of various configurations will make them pop more. and cutting the buildings into pieces that can be assembled is a better way to do that than trying to make it all one piece, kind of like how interiors are assembled parts. plus the texturing becomes an easier task because unwrapping is reduced to a simple flat arrangement of walls, and this unwrap can be duplicated over several parts to reduce the time texturing the details. so instead of building a model and doing the same UV unwrap over and over, i can do it once and then duplicate the part again and again because it already has the unwrap finished.

 

this is what i mean by stepping back and re-evaluating the approach. sure i could just be lazy and reimagine the vanilla stuff by making more faces, but those are really just a visualization of a concept and not the final product. thats only kind of like talking out loud to start a conversation that would otherwise be in my own head and never materialize. it will be a bit difficult at first to get the ball rolling and scrap the work already done, but in the end i think it is worth it. i would rather build the parts and then have them on hand to assemble correctly and in a more cohesive manner than trying to make the one piece models work. now to start off it will mean building a roughshod version of each ruin with placeholders and then duplicate the parts and slowly replace each placeholder with the final version of the part, once it has been refined and textured.

 

i think the best way to do that is to export them as an OBJ and then import them to the scene so i have them set aside for later use in other building models as well.

 

i will probably start with ruin 50 to refine the concept of it and then transpose those details to other buildings and towers in various ways.

 

i chose that because it is obviously already headed in the right direction. and so it just makes sense to further refine it

 

here are a couple of examples of what i was referring to, the top one is the iconic vanilla mushroom style tower replaced by a new model concept (far from done) and you can kind of tell what it replaces(if you recognize the bounding box) but i am not satisfied with the simle extrude and then downscale on the features i added, so it is simply a concept of potential.

 

the second is the treehouse style building (the one with the three supports under it and the horizontal bar running through them) and i decided to rethink it as if it were simply a taller building instead of suspended. and that is where i was exploring the idea of duplication in a stack of parts. that led to thinking about making parts to replace the unimodel and building ruins out of those pieces.

 

again both are just concepts and exploring ideas. and it is going to be refined to higer detail and quality.

 

http://i.share.pho.to/f6f9e453_o.png

http://i.share.pho.to/fcd0e899_o.png

 

these are far from done. but moving in the right direction conceptually.

 

so im pretty much scrapping them all in favor of a better way to build them.

[RubberMan01]

The top tower looks better with the doom rather than the silly shape it has.