Is Bashed Patch vital if I got ~150 .esps only? Crashes concern me :<

[Esteris]

Long story short:

+ got an install of 140-150 .esps

+ don't know how to use Wrye, read tutorial, using automatic picks

+ install crashes like mad with bashed patch

+ can't debug it turning off .esps because don't understand bashed patch

+ am a n00b

 

Long story sensibly:

I've got an Oblivion installation that has around 140-150 .esps active. I'm a n00b, let's be clear, but I read somewhere that the patch is the best way to avoid going over 255 .esp limit.

 

On the early stage the installation works fine (made a backup in case it blew up later, and lo and behold it totally did lol). I started having random crashes minutes into the gameplay and it wasn't possible to change eyes/hair on new character (just from what I could see in the minutes I got to test it :p)

 

I took that well-working stage and added a few more things (nothing drastic... I don't think), ran Wrye Bash and rebuilt the patch. It stopped working. I used the automatic settings for everything, because I'm dumb and I've no clue, I followed the pictured guide from Nexus.

 

Now I'm not sure if it's the patch that blew things up or some of the added mods (I'm gonna check it obviously), but the patch sure makes it more difficult to activate/deactivate any plugins. Some of them became .ghosted and deactivated and it also activated everything I had in my data folder, including inactive things (effectively doubling some of the plugins that should not be doubled like ooo's respawn month/ooo's respawn two weeks and 2-3 similar cases I wanted to keep for easy choosing).

 

So my question is - is it safe to skip it or is it vital? And if it is vital, is there some idiot-friendly explanation somewhere that would hold said idiot's paw as it tells him what she should click/not click and why and how to deal with any issues?

 

-----> Installation details if it matters

 

~~ My computer is fine, a year ago or so I ran Skyrim with Real Vision, texture mods, weather and all that and it worked nicely.

~~ I'm using BOSS to sort the load order of mods.

~~ I install mods using NMM/OBMM with rare manual install for the few that NMM unpacks into wrong place/that need their components chosen manually.

~~ I'm using the 4GB patch, OBGE, OSR.

~~ Got SI

~~ Got OBSE (Steam version), Pluggy, MenuQue, all activate nicely no problem.

I don't think I can use Streamline because of OBGE (no idea how to turn off the FPS management, don't wanna break anything), I'm not sure ENBoost makes sense either with those, read in one of the readmes that maybe not really... Complicated stuff :<

 

From the prominent/overhaul mods, I'm running:

- Official SI patch+UOP+SI UOP+DLC UOPs

- OOO

- MOO

- Cobl

- Oblivion Character Overhaul

- L.A.M.E.

- Better Cities (want to be able to activate/deactivate those, not sure if Bashed Patch lets me :< /clueless)

 

Those+custom race and some smaller mods (GUI, needs, harvest flora, EEconomy...) are running nicely together, I see no crashes, no performance drops, but no bashed patch yet in that part of the install.

 

Thaaanks, if someone can advise <3 ^{_{...I don't even know if I'll have a time to play after the install, but omigod I must get it working, my brain is too stubborn D:}}

 

[Striker879]

First off, most everything I know about using Wrye Bash I learned from reading the two readmes ... Wrye Bash General Readme.html and Wrye Bash Advanced Readme.html (both found in the Oblivion\Mopy\Docs folder).

 

One thing I did find that was not readily apparent concerning mods that are deactivated and merged into the bashed patch (those mods that have the plus signs beside them in the Mods tab list) is how to deactivate those mods if you want to troubleshoot/uninstall them.

 

What WB does when it deactivates and merges is basically move all of the deactivated and merged mod's content into the bashed patch. To deactivate and/or uninstall that mod you need to remove it from the bashed patch first. You do this by rebuilding the bashed patch and click off the Merge tag for that particular mod. When the bashed patch is done rebuilding then deactivate the previously merged mod in the Mods tab and again rebuild the bashed patch. You can now uninstall the mod if you wish, or if just troubleshooting run your test as the mod isn't part of your bashed patch any longer.

[Esteris]

I see. Thank you, that's helpful, though still sounds complicated and easy to break for an inexperienced person :<

 

I'd like to ask if this would be a viable thing to do:

- install everything I want

- play for a while to test if nothing is out of place

- remove unused .esps (place them in separate folder)

- then rebuild bashed patch (because it otherwise merges my unused .esps into it >.<)

- click "okay" "okay" "okay" without changing anything in the settings

- add/remove big quest mods after the fact and NOT run bashed patch anymore (I'm wary of those and can't test them easily)

 

Alternatively, what would happen if I did not use Bashed Patch at all? I heard it was a must when using FCOM, but thanks to MOO I don't feel I have to anymore, it has most of the features I cared for from there [and more] and works with OOO, which seems to be a more stable alternative due to how MOO operates.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Esteris

[Striker879]

In my opinion using the bashed patch is a must, if only so that OCO v2 doesn't overwrite the corrections to NPC AI packages from the UOP (and OCO v2 will undo some of the UOP corrections without a bashed patch).

 

If a mod isn't ticked in the Mods tab list it is ignored by WB when building the bashed patch (so having deactivated mods ... those with a blank box beside their ESP ... has no impact except they still count towards the game limit of 255 ESPs/ESMs in your Data folder).

 

It's only for mods marked with the plus (+) signs you need to go through the extra steps before deactivating/uninstalling ... ones with just a check mark in the box can be simply unticked and then rebuild your bashed patch.

 

Can't say whether or not you need a bashed patch for Better Cities ... don't use any of those.

 

One thing to note is if you use Maskars Oblivion Overhaul (MOO) it's ESP needs to be kept below the bashed patch in your load order (WB will delete it's leveled list otherwise as they start out empty and then are populated after you start the game and WB deletes empty leveled list when building/rebuilding the bashed patch ... it ignores all ESPs placed lower than the bashed patch).

[Esteris]

I see, that's hard to argue with then, bashed patch must come to live :P Thanks for the MOO note, I'll make sure it stays below, though I think BOSS puts it there safely anyway. I run BOSS all the time,this tool has really earned my trust by now :9

 

I'll copy my entire install somewhere then run Wrye and cross my thumbs it can do what it must do without my thinking about it. I hope the crashes I started getting last time were from some (now removed) mod or something...

 

The sucky part is it seems I have to actually remove all the currently-unused .esps to a remote location, because I wanted to prepare my install for the bashing (clean .esps and change masters for Bane's Guild patches to work with the OOO .esp) and I didn't click <anything> there and next thing I see is .ghost plugins in the Data folder and Better Cities active, because they were sucked into the patch (the .esps were purposefully left unticked for a while! It's a heavy mod and I'm trying to test everything else first...). I don't know why it does this.

 

I cleaned up all of the .esp files pointed at by BOSS, maybe that will help something (doubtful those could be causing any crashing, but hey, still recommended).

 

On a side note, I have a few big quest mods and I'm not sure if I can install and activate them before starting a new game or to leave them be for whenever I would play them. I wouldn't want to hurt my savegame/have some scripts running all the time or something, but at the same time, I'd like to have an install I could just play and go wherever I can go. Do you have any idea about those?

 

- Bartholm

- Bloodlines

- Glenvar Castle

- Golden Crest

- Knights of the Nine Revolution

- Knights of the White Stallion

- Kvatch Rebuilt

- Malevolent

- Thieves Arsenal - Odd Jobs

- Tears of the Fiend

- Vampire Hunting

 

Sometimes people know things that can't be found in the readme. I remember years ago when I last played Oblivion I had some big quest mod that completely wacked my install (but took a while to know it). I only found out it wasn't recommended when I tried to find out what exactly broke my game :p Any heads up would be great.

 

Thank you for your help, once more!

[Striker879]

I'm not familiar with all of those mods, but I do know I've seen comments on how it's OK to install KotN:R, Glenvar and Kvatch Rebuilt with a new game.

 

I don't use many quest type mods myself and tend to waiting until I'm ready to start something before installing mods of that ilk.

 

Most of my mods are gameplay changing type mods. When I was setting up my latest install following a hard drive failure I had a list of mods I wanted to try. By installing them one at a time and testing thoroughly in between I gained a good idea of how each affected both gameplay and stability. The other advantage of the one at a time method is you know exactly where to start troubleshooting if problems arise.

 

The mantra for using WB and BOSS is always the same ... add/uninstall/change a mod, run BOSS from WB, rebuild your bashed patch and then start the game.

[Esteris]

It's okay, thank you. I decided to go with the quest mods that are relatively current and supported. I don't want too many, but I want some surprises :smile:

 

Sadly, the game crashes on travel now after the newest additions and disabling some mods only made it crash at second travel attempt not first :tongue: Which makes me wonder if it will be 1 mod at fault or some deeper issue... those suck D: Which is why I'm copying the final installation (just in case) and then I'm gonna run Wrye and see what happens.

 

If it's still going to be crashing like that with the patch, I will be deactivating mods in batches (while whining that bashed patch makes it much less transparent :tongue:)

 

I was being rather careful with installing everything and I have traveled back and forth quite a bit with my basic setup. I don't know what turned the install evil, but all the big and potentially messy mods (mechanics, gameplay changing) were working fine, I tested them basically 1 by 1 before I installed the later additions in batches ._. Always the simplest things, isn't it.

 

 

##### These are mostly what I added in the batch that causes crashing:

 

With the big quest mods I narrowed/expanded my list to:

1 Bartholm [seems cool and error/conflict light]

2 Verona House Bloodlines [as above]

3 Knights of the Nine Revolution [stellar reviews, also mod of the month and not too old]

4 Golden Crest [you get to be a pirate, I mean, c'mon! commenters recommend it too]

5 Kvatch Rebuilt [always wanted to play this, and it was always an early WIP]

6 The Lost Spires [cool idea, good reviews, seems to be alive]

7 The Ayleid Steps [ditto]

8 Kragenir's Death Quest [i love the concept, i love mods like this, and the comments don't cry about falling skies]

9 Thievery in Imperial City [i recall it being fun, but I forgot to vet it... gotta take a look]

10 Bruma Guild reconstructed [new and alive mod, but I'm not sure if I should clean it or not since in theory it reconstructs the original... idk, 2n00b2judge]

11 Guild Advancement (+Mage/Fighter guild quests as required) [needed! want. haha]

 

Other than that it's mostly collectors items or some mod that adds fish or other pretty things.

 

After considering the comments I decided to pass on:

- Glenvar Castle [blocks some travellers, has odd mechanics with buttons appearing after events only, lots of wall-patting (not my thing) and events not explained by the story]

- Knights of the White Stallion [seems pretty buggy and I remember having problems with it last time around too]

- Malevolent [ends of a cliffhanger with no 2nd part... not happening :D]

- Thieves Arsenal - Odd Jobs [people say it's unfinished and has a bunch of bugs/can bug the thieves guild too]

- Tears of the Fiend [old old mod, no support, not the storytelling type for me from what I saw]

 

Unsure about:

- Vampire Hunting [seems to have some conflicts with OOO, I think I have enough mods not to risk it]

Edited February 24, 2016 by Esteris

[Esteris]

Man, I hate bugs like this... I did absolutely nothing, but ran the game again, took me 3-4 travels to crash it. Then I only removed the Better Cities plugins to an outside location (they weren't even active) and now I can't crash the game :D Which would be a good thing, only I don't trust it *shifty eyes*.

[Striker879]

Seems to me you have good skills ... reading and interpreting mod comments is akin to knowing how to pan for gold (many may claim to know how but how many can actually show you their gold stash). Just because you see comments about problems doesn't necessarily mean the mod is problem ridden. I gauge the poster's qualifications, the resolutions offered by the mod author/mod users and then weigh that against whether or not I understood what the problem was and how the offered solutions worked to resolve them. Can't fix what you can't get your head around.

 

Crashing on fast travel isn't uncommon. If you have a lot of script heavy mods there is a lot for the game to resolve in those few seconds that the next area is loading. Even without fast travelling you can run into situations where you crash when you try rounding that next bend (actually cross into that next cell).

 

I recall once having a problem making it past that last bend in the road as you head down the hill and then into Bravil from the direction of the IC. When I took a long circuitous route around that corner and approached from the shore NE of the Bravil gate I saw that some traveling NPC was walking towards the IC along the road. I reloaded my save from before and just chilled where I was. Once the NPC went past me I was able to travel the rest of the way to Bravil no problem. Something about me approaching that NPC before he made it past Bravil got the game's shorts all bunched into a knot.

 

Sometimes you've just got to take your lumps and move on.

[Esteris]

Hah, well, I think it's a bit like reading negative reviews for whatever you want to buy/watch/read. If the reviewer makes a lot of sense (comprehensive list of what they don't like and why) it might be worth taking a note of, especially if the opinion repeats. In the case of these mods I decided not to use there were of course no replies by the author, because most of those mods are abandoned anyway. All of the mods have some errors mentioned in the comments, but if the solution was given/support is active, I decided to install those because I can come crying for help somewhere and that's vital with mods I think :D

 

Interesting bug right there with the road :D Good to know some crashes can be solved like that.

 

I didn't know fast travel itself can cause hiccups like that, I'll keep it in mind. Well, as long as it works like it did on that attempt where I couldn't break it it's all good - I know the game may crash once in a while and as long as it's random and not a sign of deep trouble I guess that's fine.

 

But not on the first travel attempt after loading Oblivion :D That's a bit much I fear :D Let me play for a couple hours before that!

 

#### I built the patch,

Google found me some n00b-friendly guide that someone posted around here in some other topic. That someone was actually you :D Oddly, this time when I followed the guide different options appeared and it ate less plugins. Mystery. I wonder what sort of bamboozle I cooked up yesterday when I tried it and everything exploded... (:

 

So far so good. The test "run" was of the "uncrashable" kind. Character creation works with OCO, nothing seems amiss. I hope it stays that way, but I can already feel every fast travel will feel like a delicious crash opportunity :D

 

Sadly, Better Cities seem to be making the game a bit less stable. I'll probably install them only after some more testing (and actually playing with old cities to appreciate those improved ones more later... which was the plan anyway) :smile:

 

Thank you for your assistance :smile: Both now and in your past post I dug out :D

 

^{...this dark background here just slaps me in the face with how I overuse emojis...}

Edited February 24, 2016 by Esteris