Homely Women in FO3

[jallard]

I don't know what it is about Bethesda's character creators, but I simply cannot create beautiful women –or men for that matter. The latter always seem to come out looking like square jawed Dudley Do Rights. The women are indescribable. Even with my favorite HD Berry body replacer my women do not fare well. Conversely, when I create characters in Dragon Age Origins character creator, while the men don't fare much better than in FO3 or FNV, the women…..Ah, the women! They come out looking like Victory Secret models. (And, when you add Tnt's Veritable Fongee clothes to the character. A Goddess is thus created for the kingdom of Forelden!) Perhaps Bethesda or Obsidian didn't allow for much of a budget for character creation as Bioware seeming did for DAO. (However, Bioware did slack off a little for DA2.)

 

I don't know, I guess it's the sliders. For example, when you one slider moves several move along with it and that's totally confusing to me. In DAO you had many, many choices. For example, just for the face alone you have eleven options–from Blush color and intensity to eye shadow and tattoos. We don't have that luxury in Oblivion, FO3 and FNV. Therefore, just when I think that I have created someone very special; and while I am pleased with the overall look in the character creator; the end result in-game is seemingly vastly different and, for me, very disappointing. Just today I have tried 5 times to create a female character to my liking and failed each time. What's also disappointing is that it distresses me to the point that I quit playing FO3 and go back to playing DAO.

 

For me, at least, character creation is an integral part of playing the game. If I am going to spend a 100 hours or more play through FO3, for example, the esthetics has to be exceptional, much like the scenery that surrounds me in the game. I suppose that's the job of all those wonderfully creative modders out there in cyberspace and perhaps beyond, who many of us adore and appreciate immensely.

 

Anyway, now that I have gotten that off of my chest I will go play some Dragon Age Origins, for a feel good change in demeanor. Thank you.

[Alixen]

I've gone through Fallout (and Oblivions) character creation so many times i'm actually pretty good at getting an attractive character. Albiet i'm better at getting women looking right than men, bit thats mostly because I tend to just mess with the Mad Max preset (guy wth strong jaw, nose, blue eyes and blast back hair) for them. Early on though - yuck. Practice makes perfect as they say. And by the way: some of that sounded waaay too much like Zevran. May want to cut back on the DA:O. xD

[jallard]

I've gone through Fallout (and Oblivions) character creation so many times i'm actually pretty good at getting an attractive character. Albiet i'm better at getting women looking right than men, bit thats mostly because I tend to just mess with the Mad Max preset (guy wth strong jaw, nose, blue eyes and blast back hair) for them. Early on though - yuck. Practice makes perfect as they say. And by the way: some of that sounded waaay too much like Zevran. May want to cut back on the DA:O. xD

 

Typically, I only play as a woman PC. I much prefer to watch a female butt running around hacking and slashing (or shooting) than watching some male butt. And, I never ever play Zevran. I simply don't like his character, so I kill him off just as soon as I meet up with him. I don't much like Alister either, but you can't win the game without him. As it is right now in DAO I have eight female characters that I am playing. I have Oblivion too, but I have the downloaded version from D2D and can't install the OBSE. As far as mods go it's no fun with out it. Steam wants $25 bucks. However, I am holding out for Skyrim. In the meantime I am also playing FO3 and FNV: And, I am doing voice overs for a huge unofficial DLC mod for DAO. I may be retired but I try to keep busy.

[Alixen]

I wasn't too fond of Zevran myself originally. However I gave him a chance and he ends up being a more loyal friend than many others in the group if you treat him wth respect. To the point that in a lot of endings (even if you don't romance him) he travels with you as a good friend. I'm sure you know this, just expressing why I learned to appreciate him.

 

I've had problems with getting new discs of Oblivion. For exacly that reason I don't like to download Bethesda games. However Oblivion has gotten just old enough that the price for discs is waaay more than i'm wlling to pay for replacements. I'm reduced to buying the Oblivion/Bioshock boxset. D=

[jallard]

I wasn't too fond of Zevran myself originally. However I gave him a chance and he ends up being a more loyal friend than many others in the group if you treat him wth respect. To the point that in a lot of endings (even if you don't romance him) he travels with you as a good friend. I'm sure you know this, just expressing why I learned to appreciate him.

 

I've had problems with getting new discs of Oblivion. For exacly that reason I don't like to download Bethesda games. However Oblivion has gotten just old enough that the price for discs is waaay more than i'm wlling to pay for replacements. I'm reduced to buying the Oblivion/Bioshock boxset. D=

 

I know what you mean about Oblivion being so old and still costly. Although, I prefer to have my games on hard disc rather than from Steam or D2D. That being said, I am apprehensive about Skyrim being a download from Steam like FNV is. I am just not a fan of downloaded games.

 

As for creating characters in FO3 I just can't seem to get them right. I have Josef_Greys_Makeup_Face_Re-texture installed, but I am not a big fan of Gothic makeup. Just for example, now this might sound silly, but I prefer creating the female character with what women are wearing today for makeup. For another example, if you have noticed Pink lip gloss, in various shades, is very popular today. Hair color is as vast as the Mojave wasteland and the District of Columbia. Eye shadow is the same way. Now, granted we are talking about a wasteland wrought by a nuclear blast and makeup may be the farthest thing from a male's mind and eye, but most women will never stop trying to improve their appearance even in a wasteland. Geez, the Native Americans used to wear war paint of various colors.

 

The problem with modern man is that they can't think or see beyond present day. Imagine, if you will, if the world was plunged into nuclear chaos who would survive? My guess is the homeless would more than any other class of people in the so-called civilized world. They already know how to do without, scavenging for food and clothing and shelter. The second group would be the survivalists who looked ahead and prepared themselves. The rest of civilization would certainly perish almost immediately. Ironically, I don't think very many people realize just how very close we all are to the Fallout scenario, given today's upheaval in the Middle East. We are all treading on thin ice. However, I am off topic and fear a reprisal from the monitors.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Moraelin]

I think the main problem is that basically the FO3 and FO:NV character editor is the Oblivion one... made worse.

 

The main problem is that it's non-orthogonal.

 

You change on slider here, and it causes half a dozen sliders on other pages to move a bit. If you go at it long enough, you can actually cause some logically unrelated sliders to move a lot from the position you left them at. And I mean as logically unrelated as actually seeing the skin tone change when dragging some geometry slider.

 

Really, whoever at Bethesda came up with that idea, should be ordered to write 100 times on the blackboard that he'll never do it again.

 

The second problem is the view.

 

In Oblivion they almost shoved the camera up the character's nose and shone a light pretty unnaturally in there too. There's a reason for example sticking a flashlight under one's chin makes the face look weird. Oblivion didn't go that far, but still basically it's very hard to guess what that face will look in a less fish-eye view and in more natural lighting. Stuff that looked good in the character editor looked awful in the actual game, and sometimes viceversa.

 

Fallout 3 takes this even one step further, and makes one work through that retarded terminal view that changes the colours and contrast. I don't know who at Bethesda had that stupid idea, but it makes it very very and unnecessarily hard to judge stuff like whether the blush intensity is about enough or crossing into looking like an insane clown who got caught in an explosion at a paint factory.

 

The third problem is that, as I was saying, it's like they actually went the extra mile to take an annoying editor from Oblivion and make it actually worse.

 

They still have as many sliders as in Oblivion, but they hid about half of them. Stuff like the base face ratios or the chin width are still there, but hidden. Worse yet, they're still changed by other sliders. So just messing with other sliders long enough can get you a female with a extra-wide square chin, and no slider to fix that. The only way to reverse that would be to figure out which sliders cause that as a side effect, and then what else do those screw up, and so on, like a huge brain-#### exercise.

 

I had some moderate success by editing a preset in the GECK, rather than with the in-game editor. At least there I see all the sliders.

 

Still.. I can honestly say that, by way of comparison, I've had an easier time making a handsome male dwarf DA:O, even starting from that crumpled cabbage face the dwarves have, than getting anything even remotely pretty in Fallout 3 or NV with the default meshes.

 

I mean, really, I'm already in a mind that if the same non-orthogonal annoyance happens again in Skyrim, I know what my first mod will be: a burqa :P

[jallard]

I think the main problem is that basically the FO3 and FO:NV character editor is the Oblivion one... made worse.

 

The main problem is that it's non-orthogonal.

 

You change on slider here, and it causes half a dozen sliders on other pages to move a bit. If you go at it long enough, you can actually cause some logically unrelated sliders to move a lot from the position you left them at. And I mean as logically unrelated as actually seeing the skin tone change when dragging some geometry slider.

 

Really, whoever at Bethesda came up with that idea, should be ordered to write 100 times on the blackboard that he'll never do it again.

 

The second problem is the view.

 

In Oblivion they almost shoved the camera up the character's nose and shone a light pretty unnaturally in there too. There's a reason for example sticking a flashlight under one's chin makes the face look weird. Oblivion didn't go that far, but still basically it's very hard to guess what that face will look in a less fish-eye view and in more natural lighting. Stuff that looked good in the character editor looked awful in the actual game, and sometimes viceversa.

 

Fallout 3 takes this even one step further, and makes one work through that retarded terminal view that changes the colours and contrast. I don't know who at Bethesda had that stupid idea, but it makes it very very and unnecessarily hard to judge stuff like whether the blush intensity is about enough or crossing into looking like an insane clown who got caught in an explosion at a paint factory.

 

The third problem is that, as I was saying, it's like they actually went the extra mile to take an annoying editor from Oblivion and make it actually worse.

 

They still have as many sliders as in Oblivion, but they hid about half of them. Stuff like the base face ratios or the chin width are still there, but hidden. Worse yet, they're still changed by other sliders. So just messing with other sliders long enough can get you a female with a extra-wide square chin, and no slider to fix that. The only way to reverse that would be to figure out which sliders cause that as a side effect, and then what else do those screw up, and so on, like a huge brain-#### exercise.

 

I had some moderate success by editing a preset in the GECK, rather than with the in-game editor. At least there I see all the sliders.

 

Still.. I can honestly say that, by way of comparison, I've had an easier time making a handsome male dwarf DA:O, even starting from that crumpled cabbage face the dwarves have, than getting anything even remotely pretty in Fallout 3 or NV with the default meshes.

 

I mean, really, I'm already in a mind that if the same non-orthogonal annoyance happens again in Skyrim, I know what my first mod will be: a burqa :P

 

 

Speaking of Skyrim, I hope the heck we get an opportunity to see the character creator in action or I am not buying it--despite the fact that I have already pre ordered it. I will gladly forfeit the $10 restocking fee.

[jallard]

Just to reiterate, I have tried nearly a dozen times over the past three days to create a female character via the DIM CUSTOME RACES and just when I think I finally got somewhere the character looks totally different in-game, just like you said. Like today, for example, I created what I thought was an fairly good looking character, but by the time I got to where she was 19 years old, and ready to leave the vault, she didn't look like the character that I thought I created. In fact, He neck was extremely elongated much like Kangaroo. I was so very pissed.

 

I will say it again:

 

'CHARACTER CREATION, FOR ME AT LEAST, IS HALF THE GAME PERIOD!"

 

Bethesda and Obsidian need to take lessons from Bioware. Make the character creator worth a s*** in Skyrim or lose a valued customer.

 

Nuf said.