playable advent mod: details, feedback

[Phaserburn]

Hey, I was installing via nexus. I'll try looking into it more tomorrow. That said, as of now it looks like I'll be SOL if what you say is true.

[davidlallen]

@ phaser, I am not sure I understood. Many hundreds of people have installed from nexus, and almost 2000 from steam. Why would you be SOL? If you object to steam because of automatic updating, many people switch off automatic updating anyway.

 

@ pepper, thanks for the feedback. The whole mission thing makes me a little nervous. Right now, it is a research project which immediately appears in the list of possible research projects (after resistance radio) and sits there till the end of the game. OTOH, if I make it a randomly appearing mission, then people will complain that they want to have a mec but the mission didn't pop for them. I can't think of any middle ground; what do you think?

[PepprmintButler]

I do think too much availability is better than not enough. The class is supposed to be balanced anyway, and it's not like it's free and instant either.

 

I think the two issues this brings about is :

- can I get a MEC too early and have too powerful a unit ?

This doesn't seem like much of an issue, this is entirely solvable with appropriate costing, gating behind an appropriate research, and careful consideration of the early game balance of the unit if you choose to make it available early

 

- can I game this to give me a lot of missions and farm many MECs or loads of XP for my team ?

Again, appropriate costing of the project should prevent that well enough.

 

Is there another issue I'm overlooking ?

[davidlallen]

OK, I think it's worth trying. The mod that I took the implementation from intended the missions to be late game and they cost 100 intel, plus 200 supplies. That is probably too much. Maybe, 50 intel, 100 supplies, and the same amount of research time as magnetic weapons? Also, once you take the research mission, should it be repeatable? If so should it cost more? After a while it's hard to imagine there were *that* many unhappy mecs running around.

[DangerM]

First off, I must say that I think you're doing fantastic work here! I was looking around in Unreal to make an Alien mod myself when the game was released. I'm really glad to see someone else taking a shot at this. :)

 

OK, I think it's worth trying. The mod that I took the implementation from intended the missions to be late game and they cost 100 intel, plus 200 supplies. That is probably too much. Maybe, 50 intel, 100 supplies, and the same amount of research time as magnetic weapons? Also, once you take the research mission, should it be repeatable? If so should it cost more? After a while it's hard to imagine there were *that* many unhappy mecs running around.

 

I think the cost should be balanced based on what you want the classes to give the players.

 

While not game-mechanically accurate, the game tries to make the aliens seem much more powerful than your rag-tag group of humans. If you want aliens to be notably more potent, give them a higher cost but also higher return on investment.

 

Suggestions:

1. Aliens, much like PSI soliders, are generally a more powerful than their thematically closest human solider. They grow at a rate comparable to human soldiers. They require significant resources to clone/brainwash/jury rig. Compare to Xcom 1's MECs.
2. Aliens start off more powerful than human soldiers, but have limited growth. This may be more setting appropriate choice (human potential and all that). Compare to XCOM 1's SHIVs. Player may feel like this makes aliens a bad choice, or a crutch however (or want to train their "Snek Waifu" into a complete monster...), so it may be a bit more difficult to balance right.
3. Aliens have power comparable to humans and costs comparable to humans. Makes sense setting wise, especially since most of them have been altered with human DNA. Making them more expensive than humans will lead to buying them being a poor tactical choice.

 

Thoughts

Personally I feel 1 is the nicest solution, so I'll elaborate on that. Depending on the alien type and research they, unlocking the new aliens will come around after at least a few weeks, so they will need justify getting them as new soldiers when you already may have a few mid-ranked ones. The argument for getting aliens in this (1) case would be:

1. They will start out at the level of my current soldiers.
2. They have a bit higher potential than my current soldiers.

Arguments against would be

1. They cost research I could spend on infrastructure/research instead. Magnetic Weapons for everyone, or more monthly income is probably better than a new mid-class soldier.

Class Ideas

 

Advent MEC

Rebuildable frontline soldier. This guy is a moving, shooting, decoy grenade. He is, much like XCOM 1 MECs intended to be out in the open taking hits and dishing out damage.

His strength is great firepower and durabiliy. His weakness is being unsuitable for evasive play, a sitting duck when enemy plasma is slung around.

Upgrades would be more armor, or more firepower such as flame throwers and more rockets.

 

Muton

Much like the MEC the Muton is a frontline soldier, though a bit less expendable, and sacrificing some firepower for combat shouts which buff allies with a chance of panicking aliens.

Upgrades would be better shouts or more general frontline soldier traits.

 

Sssnek, er I mean, Viper

Instead of a mere Recon, the Viper offers a kit more like an Assassin. Like the Recon she arrives stealthed and possessed attacks more deadly when performed from stealth. What makes her an assassin is her ability to re-stealth at the end of a turn if she killed an enemy.

Upgrades would be ether better ability to stealth or deal damage from stealth, such as letting her kill with tongue without being revealed (Assassin). Alternatively she can improve her aim and gain better ability to deal damage or disorient enemies (More of a team fighter).

 

- - - - - -

I have to head to work now, but if you'd like I could drop a few ideas, or elaborate on these further later.

 

Good luck with the mod!

[PepprmintButler]

I have to say I like the above framing of alien roles a lot.

It's very true that controlling more closely how/when/how much of the aliens you get, which is what giving them out as mission rewards does, brings higher focus on the question of where to put them in the power spectrum relative to humies.

 

Thanks DangerM for the fresh perspective! (no I'm not even on the mod team but I do give this a fair amount of thought)

[hunterkiller33]

I would agree with the above statement.

 

They feel like proper individual classes for each race, and not too different from what I was trying to say earlier on in the development of the current aliens. Good to see someone else agrees with me!

(I still want that viper rifle upgrade late game)

One point though, is that I think there should be a limit on how many times the Viper should be able to reapply stealth when fighting. It should be a limited version of implacable, and instead of having an extra moment, you automatically re-conceal

[davidlallen]

(still thinking about the post from dangerm)

 

For viper reconcealment, there is a recent mod "asset class" which describes a few stealth related abilities. One is "assassination", where a one shot kill doesn't break concealment. That is similar to what you describe; maybe I can borrow the code (with credit). There may be some interesting possibilities here.

[DangerM]

Well, if you want more...

 

Note: Don't read too much into the specific balance or exact gameplay implementation here. I wrote this mostly to get a feel for the Aliens/Classes.

Keep in mind that the Aliens don't get fancy rockets with their armor, or the neat accessory slots humans have. Well, unless you want that ofc.

 

XCOM MEC

The real secret to the Advent MEC lies in its core. While normally kept both charged and connected to the ADVENT network the MEC has the capacity to remain active for several days and act in a surprisingly independent way while cut of from the network.

 

Features:

Walking Tank.

The XCOM MEC is a heavy front-line fighter specifically intended to draw fire from our more vulnerable soldiers. It is more than just a decoy however, and packs a massive amount of firepower to bear down on our foes. When the MEC finally breaks down we can have our soldiers salvage the core and rebuild it with relative ease.

 

Innate Traits

+ The MEC is durable and when well equipped will have lot of armor and a fair bit of health.

+ Rebuildable. As long as the core is recovered rebuilding the MEC is cheap.

+ The MEC is modular. Instead of ranking up the components of a MEC can be swapped out for various effects.

+ Blast Padding. The MEC is resilient to explosives.

+ Rocket Battery. 3 CD. Periodically loads a small rocket.

- Easy to hit.

 

Perk Tree - MEC

The MEC is defined more by its equipment than its AI. While aim and general combat performance does improve, the MEC obtains only a handful of perks.

 

Flexible Programming - Shooting or using abilities no longer ends the turn.

 

Optimization - Can use movement action for shooting or using abilities. (Shoot twice)

 

Equipment

Flamer (2-use) - Cover a cone in fire and test all struck units for panic (same as XCOM1)

 

Bombardment (2-use) - Bombard an area with multiple inaccurate missiles

 

Scanner - Scans an area.

 

Mobile Cover - The MEC can be used as High Cover

 

Satellite Sync - Applies Holo-targeting to all visible enemies.

 

Lock On - Similar to Sniper Rifle/Pistol. Can make an inaccurate shot if movement was made, or an extremely highly accurate shot if no movement was made.

 

Reeducated Muton

To ease control over Mutons it appears the ADVENT uses implants which condition Mutons to see ADVENT members as part of their Tribe. Though it will take time and resources we believe we can reprogram these Mutons to serve the XCOM Project instead.

 

Features:

The Reeducated Muton depending on its training functions either like an Assault soldier with very high durability, or a front-line leader capable of raising our own morale or drive enemies into panic.

 

Innate Abilities

+ Durable; the Muton has a lot of health and a bit of armor.

+ Mutons can make melee attacks.

+ Automatically counter attack melee attacks.

+ Mutons have two grenades

 

Perk Tree - Alien Leader

This tree focuses on supporting troops from the front line with combat shouts which boost morale and frightens enemies.

 

Shredder - Your attacks shred armor.

 

Death Mark - Allies have bonus aim and critical hit chance against the target. Target must test to avoid panic.

 

Volatile Mix - Grenades have increased radius

 

Inspire - Gives target ally another action.

 

Warcry - Panic and Disorient is removed from Allies. Allies gain a +15 bonus to Aim this turn.

 

Terrifying Shout - All enemies nearby must test against panic.

 

Perk Tree - Bruiser

This tree focuses on close quarter combat with the enemies, capable of shrugging a fair bit of damage.

 

Blast Padding - You gain one extra armor and resistance to explosives.

 

Tear apart - Melee attacks never miss, deal extra damage and shred armor

 

Charge! (2 CD) - Shooting does not ends the turn. Can still make a melee attack after shooting.

 

Alien Fortitude - Gain extra armor and health

 

Untouchable - When a kill is scored the next hit on the Muton will miss.

 

Battle Rage - For two turns after being injured you get an extra action.

 

Loyal Viper

We have found that, much like a bird's chicks, Vipers are good at mimicry and imprint on whatever they first make contact with when they are "activated". By exploiting this behavior we can obtain agents who are not only deadly, but loyal even to a fault.

 

Features

The Loyal Viper functions either as a frighteningly effective assassin, or an evasive support to the other troops.

 

Innate Traits

+ The Viper is more durable than human troops.

+ The Viper has the Dodge ability.

+ The Viper can grab and strangle human-like opponents.

+ Immune to poison.

+ Retains concealment.

+ Highly mobile

+ Shooting does not end turn. (can still move)

x Instead of a grenade the Viper spits poison.

 

Perk Tree - Predator

This tree focuses on stealth, assassination and surviving alone.

 

Shadow Strike- Better aim and damage when attacking from concealment.

 

Assassinate - If you kill a foe from concealment you immediately return to concealed state. Tongue grab is instantly fatal if used from stealth.

 

Misdirection (3 turn CD) - Activate this ability to go into concealment. Takes a half-action and ends the turn. CD reduced by 1 when an enemy is slain.

 

Implacable - if you killed an enemy you obtain a single bonus move.

 

Thrill of the Hunt - Regain 35% health when killing an opponent. 55% if Tongue Grab was used. (round up)

 

Guerrilla Warfare - When targeted by enemy fire, automatically fire back with your rifle. If an enemy is slain, go into concealment.

 

Perk Tree - Loyalist

This tree focuses on supporting troops by disorienting foes by spitting contact poisons and providing support with her rifle.

 

Corrosive Spit - The Viper's poison spit becomes corrosive and can damage mechanical units.

 

Shadow Step - Does not trigger overwatch.

 

Loyalist - The Viper gains the Holo-targeting power. Also, if an ally goes down the Viper gets a large aim bonus and regain 20% health.

 

Kill Zone - Take a reaction shot against any enemy that moves or attacks within a cone of fire.

 

PhD Snek- Can pick up* unconscious soldiers and gains an extra move when doing so. This stabilizes soldiers.

*as if the soldiers were items.

 

Blitzkrieg - Can shoot twice per turn. If a shot lands, get a free movement action in-between.

 

 

Domesticated Chryssalid

We have bred our own queen for testing purposes. From this we have learned that the drones' behavior is reflected from the queen, and that the huge queen has a surprisingly submissive behavior. Likely this is the result of engineering by the aliens to make them easier to control. Our men has likened the queen to a dog. "A giant venomous dog".

 

Features

The huge Domesticated Chryssalid is a slow moving, but powerful juggernaut. While it may be very durable it can easily end up drawing more enemy fire than it can handle, and has poor ability to escape a troublesome situation. Few enemies will be able to stand up to the lumbering creature however.

 

Innate Traits

The Chryssalid has very high health, but only a single point of armor.

Chryssalid poison.

Can spit regular poison with a small hit radius. Does not inflict Chryssalid poison.

Immune to poison.

- Cannot take Cover.

- Uses up two character slots.

- Takes up a 2x2 area (same as Sectopod)

 

Perk Tree - Juggernaut

The Juggernaut tree is intended to make the Chryssalid a slow-moving inevitable death to enemies should it reach them. It contains upgrades to armor, health and the ability to destroy heavily armored enemies.

 

Instinct - Free melee attacks against enemies which move into melee range.

 

Evolved Armor - Gain 2 armor and resistance to explosives

 

Brutality - When an enemy is attacked all nearby enemies must test against panic.

 

Rage - When struck by an enemy attack, move a short distance towards them.

 

Juggernaut - Gain 1 armor and increased melee damage

 

Terrifying Presence - When injured all nearby enemies must test to avoid panic.

 

Perk Tree - Queen

The Queen tree is a support tree, and makes the Chryssalid faster and capable of spreading Chryssalid poison to enemies struck, or even spit it out from a distance. Enemies slain from the poison will give birth to two very weak Chryssalids capable of spreading the poison further.

 

Potent Spit - Spits poison inflicts Chryssalid poison.

 

Lean muscles - Increased Mobility

 

Evolved poison glands - Poison has a larger radius of effect.

 

Potent Brood - Drone Chryssalids have increased aim and health.

 

Agonizing Poison - Poisoned enemies must test will to avoid disorientation each turn while poisoned.

 

Swarm of Nightmares - Two Chryssalids spawn from enemies slain with poison.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, this took forever to write. No, I haven't had any food this evening.

 

Btw. I'd wager Firaxis would think the mod you guys are making is a pretty cool concept. If you run into any huge roadblocks or whatever I may be able to forward something to one of their leads. I don't work for Firaxis myself, but I code for another company under Take-Two Interactive (owner of Firaxis), so I've got them all on Lync. No promises though!

Edited March 28, 2016 by DangerM

[davidlallen]

@ DangerM, thanks for the long posts. In your first post, you mention about the relative power level of the aliens vs humans. My goal is a hard one, but I think the right one. At both the mid game and end game, the units should be powerful enough that you want one in your team, but not so powerful that you want a whole team full of them. If they are equal in power to one human, many players may not bother with them, so they should be a little more powerful than a human or at least powerful enough in a particular, unique, interesting role. If somebody says, "Hey, I took a full squad of mecs and just stomped through L/I with no problem", then they are too powerful.

 

I think the mec, definitely, and the viper, maybe are in that sweet spot now. The viper poison spit is configurable in the ini file, but not many players probably bother with this. I definitely agree that more stealth abilities are a great idea. I can play around with this more.

 

For muton, I agree that your tree has some good ideas. I want to work on muton third, after chryssalid (#1) and improving viper a little more (#2).

 

For chryssalid, I was actually thinking the reverse of you, although I love the comment about "giant venomous dog". Rather than a juggernaut, I was actually thinking of a sprint melee approach: nimble and dangerous, but not stealthy. Not many people use ranger for melee because shotgun. So I was thinking of a unit that could spring out of a burrow, slash people up, and panic the survivors. I've almost got unburrowing and overwatch working, and I think we (mostly lucubration) have figured out why cocooning isn't working. I want to add some blademaster type abilities, including pierce so it's useful against late game armored targets. I want to see if I can have an attack panic the target and nearby enemies. If only I didn't have a fulltime job :-)

 

What do you think?