playable advent mod: details, feedback

[davidlallen]

@ hunter, this is great playtesting feedback. This helps me a lot to balance out the units.

 

The game doesn't provide proper support for class specific armor, just weapons. So, now a few people have pointed out holes in my attempt to add class specific armor, and I will try to fix the holes in the next release.

 

Regarding mec, can you confirm if the version you used has the regenerate ability? I would prefer to capitalize on the unique feature of bullet sponge rather than just boosting its damage output. What other sorts of tanky abilities would work? I envision the mec striding down the middle of the street attracting all the fire, enabling the other team members to take up positions that are stronger but a little riskier. Does it make sense?

 

Regarding viper, the idea is that they use the same weapons as your human team members. Are there any abilities that would make them sneakier? I didn't want to give them shotguns because then they are too close to ranger. In my pre-release version they have an advanced spit that also disorients. Are there other spit abilities that would be worthwhile? Maybe paralyze?

 

We haven't spent much time on the muton, or berserker. People have suggested a buff/debuff role for the muton (terrorize enemy, buff friends). I'm interested in the chryssalid but I haven't gotten the time to make their burrow overwatch or cocooning work yet. I have some more ideas for them too.

[Tisaku]

Bug:If a viper initiates an ambush via tongue grab, concealment is broken as a result of viewing a flanked enemy, and the pod takes no actions(possibly because I grabbed the captain).

Bug:in the skyranger the viper has it's head turned inside out and moves as if it were a regular operative.

Bug:there is no pick-up animation for collecting loot.

Bug:viper head inverted and tongue sticks up during weapon firing

[davidlallen]

Thanks for the feedback! Several of these issues are already covered in the known bugs section in post #2. I hadn't tried picking up loot. I really do hope we are able to get an animator to help fix these problems. All the problems with the viper seem to be that the normal animations execute, but they do not include any position for the extra "bone" in the model for the tongue. The tongue's default position is sticking straight up. The viper specific animations position this bone but the default ones don't.

 

Regarding the ambush comment, I am not quite sure what you mean. Grabbing via tongue pull is *supposed* to break concealment, right? But normally when concealment is broken the pod gets a "scurry" action, and here you mention that they don't. I will try that out. I don't think grabbing the captain is supposed to have any special effect on the rest of the pod. For example, if you head-shot the captain, the rest of the pod will still scurry.

 

Overall, what do you think of the power level of the viper soldier? When you first get it as a rookie, is it too weak? Does it get strong enough, or too strong, by the time it has a couple of levels?

 

I have worked on having the alien soldiers appear at the level of your highest soldier, minus 1. But, it is not quite working yet. Do you think that is needed?

[hunterkiller33]

Honestly, No enemy has prioritized the MEC over my other troopers so far, But I'm also rotating my teams out every mission, so it hasn't really been hitting the field as often as it could. It would be cool if we could have some way to have the MEC draw enemy agro, but I don't think XCOM has a system like that.

 

As for the Viper, I think she should have the option of a unique weapon, like the rest of the Classes. She could use the regular rifle, like the Ranger, but also has a unique option with a special perk, like armor piercing. I know I keep mentioning it, but I just like the idea of giving her a way to bypass armor in some way. Its why I also liked the idea of acid spit. As for perks, I quite enjoyed using the Deadeye Perk I rolled in the AWC. I also really liked Chainshot back in previous versions, which I consider a more balanced rapid fire.

 

The Muton would make great Shock troopers, a mix of durability and disruption that could serve very well if it could be used like the old mutons from Enemy Unknown, triggering panic chains and otherwise terrorizing the enemy would be useful.

[davidlallen]

XCom does has a system to draw aggro, in the mimic beacon. But that is pretty dramatically hard coded into each enemy AI routine, so it is hard to piggy-back on that. If you position the mec as far forward as possible, in the line of sight of all the enemies, shouldn't the enemies target it first? That is what I was expecting, but perhaps I have not tried often enough.

 

The viper already has two unique weapons, tongue pull and spit. I would like to make spit more useful. As far as I can tell, the current poison spit does bypass armor. It does not bypass advent shieldbearer shields, which I suspect is an oversight by the game devs.

 

In my local version I have boosted spit to 3 damager per turn and made it bypass shields. I have mentioned disorient; I can also try adding acid. What other spit varieties may be useful and unique?

[PepprmintButler]

Regarding MEC targeting, I've seen it happen relatively often. As far as I understand, AI targeting is mostly based on the target's defense (ie where they get the higher hit %). As my MECs are low level is a relatively high level squad, when everyone else is in proper cover, the MEC takes it. If someone else in flanked or closer in half cover, they seem to take priority, which I'd say makes sense.

I do not have that much testing with that TBH, considering XCOM is all about not letting the opponent take shots...

 

I do like the viper getting a strong armor hate theme going for late game, where humanoid hate falls off sharply in usefulness. with a decently powerful poison spit and an Acid lategame variant, that'd be a good start already ; you *could* just also put shredder in her tree too. I don't know about the disorient spit, that sounds interesting but would need playtesting. Immobilize would also make for a strong situational ability.

 

As for my feeling on Viper balance/progression, they're good at the point you get them (plenty of advent around) but nowhere near OP, which could possibly change with a better spit. Tongue probably needs to be more accurate. Getting a few ranks doesn't seem to do much; I would like to see at least one more impactful skill by the third level up.

 

I do agree with a previous poster than MEC offense is trash. You get the damage of a t1 cannon by the time you should be well into magnetic territory. Working attachments should help a bit but I really do not like how tedious it is to even get them to level up. I also still find MEC wrecks too hard to come by, making them enter play late, and they don't have much to justify their spot in a squad by the time you can get them.

I've already mentioned that, but I enjoy giving them Shieldwall, Energy Shield, and Battle Scanner, which I find all flavorful and consistent. Granted none of that helps much with the offense bit, but it does give it a unique role on the battlefield. If it's going to be a support class, it should probably get a high kill assist XP to make the leveling more bearable. But still, I would plain boost the damage on the base and upgraded MEC weapon (maybe +1 across) ; the aim is bad enough as it is, if the damage is bad too there's very little point to the weapon at all.

[hunterkiller33]

XCom does has a system to draw aggro, in the mimic beacon. But that is pretty dramatically hard coded into each enemy AI routine, so it is hard to piggy-back on that. If you position the mec as far forward as possible, in the line of sight of all the enemies, shouldn't the enemies target it first? That is what I was expecting, but perhaps I have not tried often enough.

 

The viper already has two unique weapons, tongue pull and spit. I would like to make spit more useful. As far as I can tell, the current poison spit does bypass armor. It does not bypass advent shieldbearer shields, which I suspect is an oversight by the game devs.

 

In my local version I have boosted spit to 3 damager per turn and made it bypass shields. I have mentioned disorient; I can also try adding acid. What other spit varieties may be useful and unique?

They are unique. But with the exception of the Psi Trooper and Specialist, all classes have different primary weapons, too. I'm not counting Rookies in this, because they are what all soldiers start as with the exception of the Aliens. And unlike the other secondary weapons, the Viper is still very niche in what she can do, seeing as her secondary weapon only affects Advent soldiers and unarmored organic aliens.

I will admit that half the reason I am championing for a late game viper rifle is because I quite like how it looks. Plus, it doesn't need to have animations made for it, unlike the human rifles. Its great to have the options, but I just like the look of the alien beam rifles more.

[hunterkiller33]

Personally, the way I see these alien troopers, they are not the equivalent of human soldiers. These are the equivalent of taking a MEC Trooper or SHIV into battle in long war. You aren't taking them because they are tactically similar to a human soldier. You are taking them because they provide you with a serious Tactical Advantage. That tactical advantage makes them more valuable than any soldier you have, which is why you are taking them into battle.

 

Don't ask "Does this make it OP compared to a regular soldier?" when you should be asking "Does taking this unit provide a tactical advantage? Is it worth replacing any one of my current soldiers?"

[koopakidshyguy]

What if, for the MEC drawing fire ability, you set his chance to be hit to 100% for a turn, but reduced all incoming damage to 1 HP/massively boost his armor for a turn, would that work, or does the AI take into account damage reduction?

 

Also, I agree with hunterkiller, every unit is a different shade of OP, it's the combination of said OP-ness that makes late game fun/challenging, each alien should be a tool in the box. The MEC here is easiest to develop abilities for because it has a set purpose. For the viper, mobility focus is interesting, so for late game, maybe give her things that will synergize with that mobility, namely something that takes advantage of flanks. Something like the sniper's Serial perk would be sweet for a lucky move past enemies to start picking off flanked targets, or a free shot on every flanked target in range, etc.

Edited March 17, 2016 by koopakidshyguy

[davidlallen]

Sorry guys, I was offline yesterday and today mostly, and then I needed to burn a couple of hours fixing my other mod ArmorVariety, which was broken by today's Firaxis patch. I will catch up on the feedback in 24 hours from now, and it may be possible to do a mod release this weekend.