playable advent mod: details, feedback

[PepprmintButler]

Re : MEC offense - I was the one saying it was too weak in the first place... But yeah with the defense working well and not starting at squaddie mid-game + the upgrade really curbs that. I would maybe make the upgraded cannon 7-9 instead of 8-9 and/or unlock it with Plasma, personally.

 

Re : Viper skills - that's the big question eh. I'm not sure what would fit best without overlapping too much with ranger. I think some like conceal and run&gun or rapid fire can be reused without it being much of an issue. I think at least some of the skills should play into the specific strengths and abilities of the Viper, like the sword skills on the ranger (which are useless but that's not my point). upgraded spit and slither are already very nice examples of this.

 

Have you tried making it possible to tongue pull and/or bind non-humanoids ? It would be pretty neat to be able to upgrade that for use on more stuff. Even without and upgrade, these should ideally work on Sectoids, which are pretty much humanoid (and easier to fling around and crush, if anything). A stronger, late game viper being able to grab mutons and maybe archons would be neat. Not sure about enemy vipers. The other aliens seem too big (berserker), heavy (MEC/Andro) or pointy (chrysalid) to be reasonable targets.

 

I can see how the Chrysalid could be interesting. Not my personal jam though, so maybe I'll continue brainstorming on MEC/Viper and maybe cook up a proposal for an interesting Muton build.

[davidlallen]

I guess I could make tongue pull work on sectoids. But, I really want to do more with spit. I'll try sending the vipers from your save game on a mission, because spit has always worked for me. Maybe several specializations of spit instead of just one? A full up paralyze sounds useful.

[hunterkiller33]

It would be cool to have an ability like some of the Gene mods from Enemy Within for the different aliens, like Bioelectric Skin on the Chrysallids to detect enemies in the fog of war, and Adrenal Neurosympathy on either Muton to buff the team. I would say the enhanced Poison could be just a bit on the OP side. Getting a viper at Corporal, she went from 0 to 21 kills in five missions, just from slinging that spit into groups of enemies. 5 damage will kill Most early enemies in a turn or two, and even if it doesn't, they are quite helpless. Perhaps the damage should be toned down slightly? I don't mind my viper being a murder machine, but the enemies felt powerless when I could field her. It might be good to split the early tier upgrade into two abilities: Virulent poison, that deals heavy damage, while not reducing aim and mobility as severely, and Paralyzing Venom, that trades damage for total aim and mobility reduction. Then later, you could add in a Corrosive Venom that doesn't boost damage, but applies shred. To try to separate them from the Ranger, why not give the viper more of a mobile mid range sharpshooter role instead of a close quarters role? High Mobility can certainly get a sharpshooter into the best position faster.

 

For MECs, I'm mid game, and I only saw one on an extraction mission this time around. I can't speak to how strong they are yet.

 

Mutons still aren't worth fielding because they don't have a weapon to contribute to the fight, or skills that can be used to buff the team or debuff the enemy that effectively. I can build six of them, but they simply do not fill a role on my team as they are.

[davidlallen]

Interesting that spit works for hunter, but not pepprmint. The damage and effects for both spit levels are configurable in the XComPlayableAdvent.ini file; if you are interested, try playing around to see what seems reasonable. You can also activate disorient on the advanced spit. Currently spit is in two abilities, one normal, and one at corporal; should I delay the second one by a level or two? Do you think three spit abilities is too much?

Edited March 24, 2016 by davidlallen

[Yolius]

Interesting that spit works for hunter, but not pepprmint. The damage and effects for both spit levels are configurable in the XComPlayableAdvent.ini file; if you are interested, try playing around to see what seems reasonable. You can also activate disorient on the advanced spit. Currently spit is in two abilities, one normal, and one at corporal; should I delay the second one by a level or two? Do you think three spit abilities is too much?

 

I think one Spit ability and maybe an enhancement is enough. I can't really tell why I feel like it but I could imagine it getting old. It is useful and all but would be rather monotone (does this word even exist in english language?) to use if another Spit ability blocks out the space for another new, awesome ability. You get my point?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Yolius

[gaultesian]

- I think Suppression should probably be somewhere in there. It's a native thing the opponent MECs do after all, and it's consistent with the general role

 

- I think there's room for one more "defining" active skill, one that would be more relevant than Shieldwall or Overvolt. I was initially thinking Battle Scanners, but I'm not sure how good that would be. A Heavy Weapon would be great (either a slot for one you can unlock or a specific one you get as a skill, like "Lieutenant : Flamethrower OR Rocket Launcher" or something to that effect, that works with just ini tweaking).

 

I can add suppression easily. A few people have suggested granting the heavy weapon slot from WAR armor at a high level in the artillery tree; let me see if that will work. I also have a good lead on one more ability to attract damage; in another thread I described about "draw fire", and it has occurred to me that this can be done by self-applying the advent captain "mark" effect. I will try out some of these changes in the next version.

 

 

I think a late tier heavy weapon (let the MEC have any Heavy weapon attachment, like the heavy armor, and let it decide which type of heavy weapon to use much akin to the powered armor options from the Proving Ground) would be better than overvolt or shieldwall. I have use both skills (overvolt and shield wall) and they work swimmingly, but it would be more 'robotic' to have the heavy weapon attachment. That also will give the MEC a boost at the end point of the game, where some of the area affect weapons such as flamethrower are fun, and cool. And oh, from what I have seen (tested) back in the day when we could use powered armor (prior to 6.2?), the animation effect of shooting one of the heavy weapons is doable for the MEC (not so much with the overvolt, which looks like the mec is doing a spin and shooting in every direction).

 

I have tested out a modified ini that allow my MEC to gain a very quick amount of AP at the beginning of the game (and tapers out throughout the mid and later upgrade skills), but gets little or no hp, and I have reduced the regen to 1 hp per turn. That does make for some nail-biting missions, as the MEC can take a fair bit of damage (especially at the beginning of the game), but must watch out for shredders and gangs of enemies. It can still be a tank, taking lots of hits, but it can all have one of those 'oh s#*!' moments where one or two choice shredder hits can make it go bye-bye quick enough.

 

In the scenario above, one has to strategically ascertain the best moment to let the MEC tank, and when to let it run from battle (I have also increased it's movement points, to allow for more tactical retreats).

 

Cheers.

[davidlallen]

@ yolius, monotone (monotonous) is a fine word. I am a little stuck for *any* other viper abilities. Any suggestions?

 

@ gaultesian, I will definitely try the heavy weapon attachment option, if the animations are ok. Can you post your classdata for the mec?

[gaultesian]

I will have to look at it when I get home (the class data) and send them too you (or post them here). I do believe that my MEC version had it starting off with 2 AP, with 6 HP, and during the course of gaining ranks, I used your 'add ap' line more often (i.e. it added more ap, even though it was not a choice, like blast padding). I removed blast padding, as it was a redundant choice, and changed it to something else...but it could easily stay, helping the MEC to get even tankier. By the time the MEC reaches Colonel, it should have an AP or about 6 or 7 (possibly 8, if you really tank it out), but hp only tops about 10 or 12 I do believe (or possibly 9)....so it's a very armored shell, but it cannot take much of a beating.

I gave it mobility of about 16 or so, with ever vigilant as one of it's skill sets, so it could run far ahead and go into overwatch mode. Your coding (upgrade) that allows the mec to add back hp, and if necessary, add back AP is a godsend for those missions it gets shredded. The extra mobility also allows it to extract from a close-end firefight, and use the repair for shredded armor and ap.

When I get home, I will send you the tweaks I made...I am not sure if it's for everyone, but it might be a good option (i.e. on the left side, tank with hp, on the right side, tank with ap, or something like that). Personally (and I know it is purely personal), I did not agree with XCOM 2's lack of delineation between hp and ap, but that is my opinion.

Still, it does make your MEC vulnerable....which is what you need in a good ironman mission....never be 100% certain.

OH, and the MEC animations for firing rockets and stuff works....as I said when we were able to wear power armor prior to 6.2 (I am not glad you took that out), whenever you fired a rocket or shredder, it would show the same animations used for anyone wearing power armor and performing the same action.

Cheers, and man, you guys are awesome!

[davidlallen]

It will be helpful to collect each different person's local modifications so that we can agree on the best default value.

 

I am not sure about increasing mobility; I want to avoid making this a super unit which excels at everything. I agree that ever vigilant seems to apply so that it can overwatch after a full move.

 

What is that you missed, when we removed the ability to wear power armor? Some people did not find shield wall valuable, some people did. Many people have suggested the heavy weapon attachment. Is there any other aspect you liked? Super-high HP and super-high armor are fun, but not very balanced, which may have been the main reason people liked it.

[gaultesian]

It will be helpful to collect each different person's local modifications so that we can agree on the best default value.

 

I am not sure about increasing mobility; I want to avoid making this a super unit which excels at everything. I agree that ever vigilant seems to apply so that it can overwatch after a full move.

 

What is that you missed, when we removed the ability to wear power armor? Some people did not find shield wall valuable, some people did. Many people have suggested the heavy weapon attachment. Is there any other aspect you liked? Super-high HP and super-high armor are fun, but not very balanced, which may have been the main reason people liked it.

 

I prefered the AP over the HP...the access to other armor types (prior to 6.2) was a mixed bag for me, as when you were able to access powered armor, you could add on the heavy weapon attachment, and the extra one utility slot (I do believe I am using the extra utility mod...so this may not be vanilla...sorry, so many mods, so little time). Other than the increase in AP (yay for me) I still had to live with the extra hp...that made the MEC too super.

I can agree, if you add on extra speed, it makes the MEC a tad bit too super, but with high ap and low hp, it is good to get the mec out of harm's way for repairs. This would be more applicable if there was no personal sim upgrade, so as the MEC is now, one could just add in a speed upgrade instead (rendering the extra speed in the class file redundant).

 

As I said before, my preference is very high AP over HP...I keep my HP low so that even though the MEC appears to be tanky (especially in the lower levels, if you enable it be created at the beginning of the game), but just a few choice shredder hits, and it's weaker than a kitten :wink:.

 

In short, I did not really care for the extra coats of armor and power armor, I just wanted access to the heavy weapons. As you have coded the MEC now, one can easily add ap or hp per skill level to suit their needs, and the mec cannons are powerful enough, as is the micro missiles (and you can mod those too, for damage and such).

 

The only thing I am unable to do (my modding is very rudimentary at best) is to add the heavy weapon (probably in the rank upgrade?) and have it work as an arm-mounted weapon (like the powered armor heavy weapons). I can easily add in the heavy weapons to be used by the primary_weapon...the shredderstorm cannon does quite well with this, but like the overvolt, it does not seem to suit the animations of the cannon (it does look more plausible than the overvolt animation for the MEC).

Edited March 25, 2016 by gaultesian