playable advent mod: details, feedback

[koopakidshyguy]

Not today. This is the same category of problem as chryssalid spawning from a cocoon. The game hard codes the spawning behavior and it doesn't work for units on the player team. We have discussed how to fix this for chryssalid, but nobody has done it yet.

Huh, that's weird, it worked properly in my old build. The soldier would die, but you'd get an Andromedon robot on your side. You tested it in-game and it didn't work? The only ability I know for sure is hard-coded to hostile is the civilian to faceless change, I've tested the others in tactical and they work fine.

Edited April 23, 2016 by koopakidshyguy

[davidlallen]

Oh, I guess I did not try the Andromedon myself. I know the chryssalid cocoon won't hatch, and I thought the lower level game code for both was the same.

[kyzer5]

@dave: Here you go.

Berserker Feedback

Thematically, she's the brute. A mass of rage and muscle that takes punches well and punches harder. Being a 'noisy' unit with no stealth capability fits well, as do only single movement melee strikes; the Chryssalid is the fast little bugger, the Berserker is the bulldozer that charges right at you.

Performance wise, the current implementation is very... inconsistent. Sometimes cursor melee targeting works, and sometimes I'm forced to move beside a unit and activate Punch manually; I have screenshots of this happening within the same turn. Terrain destruction is also wonky; trees tend to explode about 5 or so tiles away from her path. I will refrain from mentioning the animation issues since I believe you are already aware.

Balance wise, she's rather awkward. Early on, she is weak; not enough mobility and bulk to utilize her in direct combat (which is supposed to be her job). At her peak, she turns into an unstoppable stunbot that can tank multiple shots from anything short of Sectopods. I suggest giving her more stats early on (more bulk is almost mandatory; she simply can't survive doing her job early) and tuning down the stun power and scaling up her damage to balance.

Skill wise, while I know she's currently incomplete, is still in need of a patch job. First, the fire skills. The fire breath is way too weak for being a capstone skill. Compare it to Viper's spit or Andro's acid bomb to see how its effects are sub par for its range, targeting and rank. Next, the fire trail is a fun idea, but impractical in use. She is incapable of stealth, and her main use is charging right in from the front... leaving a trail of fire to block her own squad's path. With unit pathing being what it is, it can't be used to reliably control terrain without literally using way points to run a ring around someone. Not to mention, AI avoids hazardous terrain.

For those, I suggest moving the fire breath to near the beginning of the skill tree, if not as a default class skill by itself (since it seems weird to have a mandatory Maw of Hell weapon without actually having the skill yet). The fire trail should be removed or reworked significantly as it is detrimental to have in its current state. If the purpose is to 'set things on fire automatically', perhaps a fire explosion skill instead? AoE fire bomb centered on the Berserker when she is damaged as a specialized anti melee skill.

The auto counterattack skill is also inconsistent. I've had it activate once a mission, multiple times a mission, or not at all, with no noticeable pattern to its rules. It's a great idea, though.

To differentiate her more from 'fast' melee units (Chryssalids, vanilla Rangers), I suggest not having the Implacable and Untouchable skills; the Berserker punches your face and stays there to punch your friends' faces, not run away to hide or dodge like a boy (...Muton).

On a side note, I currently run my Berserker with an Overdrive Serum (with rework mod to make it per mission instead of one use only), which works all kinds of magic. 30+ HP, 10+ armor, and single move that can rival other units' double move turns her into a rampaging god for 2 turns only. Watching enemies crit her for 1 damage does not get old.

As I highly doubt that alien units are meant to utilize such items (oh GOD the animation), perhaps consider using Overdrive Serum effects as the basis for a new skill? They're derived from Berserkers, after all, so it checks out thematically.

To summarize, the Berserker needs more early stats, less stun power, and skills that have better synergy with her role. A little more damage won't hurt, either. Feedback end.

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I should mention that I really enjoy using her despite her current flaws, though. This game needs more punching, and vanilla Berserkers are way too disappointing.

Anyway, that's my analysis of the Berserker. If you'd like me to do any for the other units, feel free to ask. I'm just biased and like her the most!

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PS: is she supposed to actually break through walls? It's amazing and I love it, but it deviates from vanilla Berserker behavior, and I suspect it's why Andro and Berserker can't stealth right now. Quite a few comments on Steam are complaining about it, but it's also a useful, if niche, tactical option. Maybe work it into the skill tree so people can choose whether they want a Berserker that can move in concealment or a noisy wrecking ball of rage?

[davidlallen]

This is very helpful feedback. Sometimes, it is hard to tell which are issues with the vanilla game, but we would still like to track each one of these down.

 

Sometimes cursor melee targeting works, and sometimes I'm forced to move beside a unit and activate Punch manually

Do you see the same problem with vanilla ranger swords? Sometimes I have to position the cursor very carefully to get an attack from the right angle.

 

 

Terrain destruction is also wonky

I know I have seen the same effect from enemy andromedons, sectopods and berserkers. This one may be hard to fix.

Early on, she is weak; not enough mobility and bulk to utilize her in direct combat

In the current versions of the mod, the alien starts out at the level of your highest soldier minus one. Have you setup to get the alien free, and early? What specific rank do you feel she is too weak, and what rank is she good enough? This will help tune the level progression.

 

 

The fire breath is way too weak for being a capstone skill. Compare it to Viper's spit or Andro's acid bomb ... the fire trail is a fun idea, but impractical in use ... leaving a trail of fire to block her own squad's path.

That is good feedback. You can configure the fire breath damage in the ini file (PA_FIREBREATH_BASEDAMAGE). What do you feel would be a useful increase?

 

 

The auto counterattack skill is also inconsistent

Odd that this would work differently from the vanilla unit. We can try to investigate.

the Berserker punches your face and stays there to punch your friends' faces

Maybe something like serial or bladestorm to upgrade the punch? What type of abilities would work well to reinforce this?

Maybe work it into the skill tree so people can choose whether they want a Berserker that can move in concealment or a noisy wrecking ball of rage?

That's a good way to put it. I am sure one tree would not be "stealth" but maybe "a little bit less angry all the time".

 

[kyzer5]

Do you see the same problem with vanilla ranger swords?

Not at all. I run multiple melee units, and the Berserker's punch is the only one that randomly loses cursor targeting in my experience. Screenshot. That was within the same turn, before and after activating a new pod. Couldn't get it no matter which angle I tried.

 

If the terrain issue is vanilla, then yeah not much to be done there, sadly.

 

 

What specific rank do you feel she is too weak, and what rank is she good enough?

She gets better once she gets Blast Padding & Rage, and really kicks into gear at max rank. It's linked to her bulk and mobility, as previously mentioned. Before then, she has no armor mitigation, not enough raw hp to really tank shots (especially the occasional crit) and not enough mobility to engage in 1 turn, which means she pretty much has to get shot for a turn before she can even reach the enemies.

 

Once she gets Blast Padding & Rage, she gains armor mitigation from the skill and 1 from stat progression, along with more hp and mobility. Max rank gives her 2 more armor. Having armor really helps her.

 

By the way, what does the strength stat do specifically? Can't seem to find a good explanation for it. Is it tied to melee damage to make it scale?

 

 

What do you feel would be a useful increase?

For those, I suggest moving the fire breath to near the beginning of the skill tree, if not as a default class skill by itself (since it seems weird to have a mandatory Maw of Hell weapon without actually having the skill yet). The fire trail should be removed or reworked significantly as it is detrimental to have in its current state. If the purpose is to 'set things on fire automatically', perhaps a fire explosion skill instead? AoE fire bomb centered on the Berserker when she is damaged as a specialized anti melee skill.

I suggest having the fire breath skill as a squaddie level skill, and reworking the fire trail as mentioned.

 

 

Maybe something like serial or bladestorm to upgrade the punch? What type of abilities would work well to reinforce this?

I'm rather hesitant to say anything that allows for chained attacks to be good in this case. I think Serial is too strong when given to something that's so much harder to kill than vanilla classes like Sharpshooters. Bladestorm seems fine as a patch job, until something unique can be thought of.

 

For rough ideas, perhaps something like "the Berserker gains armor for 1 turn whenever she punches something" to encourage constant punching and allow her to stay on the front lines. If this is in the earlier ranks, then it helps with her early bulk issues as well.

 

 

I am sure one tree would not be "stealth" but maybe "a little bit less angry all the time".

An idea for something more in between is to make it an activated skill, "for 1 turn, the Berserker gains the ability to walk through obstacles".

[VaciliNikoMavich]

Hey guys? There is a problem with the Andromedon.

 

I was supressing this ADVENT trooper, and the big alien goes into his "fire weapon animation", but then he T-poses and the weapon desn't fire either. I think he should have a different ability, because Androemdons weren't meant for supressing stuff....

[kyzer5]

I was supressing this ADVENT trooper, and the big alien goes into his "fire weapon animation", but then he T-poses and the weapon desn't fire either.

Do you have the suppression animation fix mod installed? By default, weird things happen if you suppress without a cannon. I can suppress just fine with my Andro with the fix. Give it a try?

Edited April 26, 2016 by kyzer5

[VaciliNikoMavich]

 

I was supressing this ADVENT trooper, and the big alien goes into his "fire weapon animation", but then he T-poses and the weapon desn't fire either.

 

Do you have the suppression animation fix mod installed? By default, weird things happen if you suppress without a cannon. I can suppress just fine with my Andro with the fix. Give it a try?

Will this mess up my game? I am extremely close to the end.

[VaciliNikoMavich]

Oh also, a "minute" animation bug; when the Andromedon gets knocked unconcious from a Lancer's "sword" baton, they don't fall over often. They'll be locked in idle stance animation, though they react if a shot zips by them. Shouldn't htey fall over and such?

[Doomsday347]

Are there any plans to fix the viper firing animations?