Can Ppl Give Beth Feedback When They Find Really Bad Errors in Their Models?

[jeffglobal]

I was looking at the 10MMPistol because now I can texture it in SP and put all the individual texture sets back together again in SD easy.

 

Then I saw this mistake in their UV Map for the Pistol:

http://i.imgur.com/9yBPN66.jpg

 

So I looked for the rebel edges in the model and found its on places pretty much covered up, so it should have been deleted...so maybe harsh deadlines. I also moved those two verts that looked like they were making a run for it and then I noticed below:

 

http://i.imgur.com/d60ocAP.jpg

 

Now that's just crappy work. I'm not even gonna start to fix that.

 

So, I'm wondering, is the modding community Beth's non paid make for fun fixer uppers, or what? Is that professional work? I definitely can do that for free. Does Beth need testers of graphics ppl to check their work, cause I can do that. My bro used to check Raytheon missile software for errors, but I'm not my bro...

 

What do you guys think? Has anyone else found a large dump, where it shouldn't have been? I hear about broken nodes in Nifskope and stuff...we should make a list, so we know what works and what doesn't.

[DarthWayne]

Many models have duplicated vertics. I don't know if that is intented for whatever reason, but to me it looks like this coasts unnecessary performance. Also a lot vertics and faces that can never be seen by the player...

[TrickyVein]

Yeah, so there are a lot of mistakes and weird things that made their way into the game's assets if you look hard enough for them. Sometimes they're more obvious. Beth is still a small team compared to other studios. Mistakes like this get made all of the time, especially when you have set priorities and deadlines to meet.

 

Basically, if it doesn't crash the game, ship it. Most people will never know the difference, and some screwed up UVs in the example given are probably all but undetectable in-game.

[jeffglobal]

@Tricky Ok, then what group or Software House should I use as a standard, that is also moddable, or at least able to break down and look thru their stuff?

 

Beth staff suffer from the H1B Visa problem/threat too? Let Bollywood make the games and see how it's more about the talent than the cost of production after a certain threshold..."Cost less, not always cheaper.™" Anonymous trademarked that!

[TrickyVein]

@Tricky Ok, then what group or Software House should I use as a standard, that is also moddable, or at least able to break down and look thru their stuff?

 

Beth staff suffer from the H1B Visa problem/threat too? Let Bollywood make the games and see how it's more about the talent than the cost of production after a certain threshold..."Cost less, not always cheaper.™" Anonymous trademarked that!

 

There isn't a 'standard' for game development in these times that I'm aware of, just different combinations of teams, producers, and resources, etc.

 

Any armchair developer can poke fun at the mistakes that they see in a game. I'm not defending Bethesda, because I see and recognize some of the mistakes that were pointed out in the OP, but I do question needing to take issue with such 'mistakes' as if they're a black mark on the game studio, implying Bethesda doesn't quite make the 'grade' compared to others. These are the realities of game development, wherever you look. If you had infinite time, money, or whatever, you could probably make a perfect game that didn't include a terrible UV map here and there.

 

But people don't. These things happen. This shouldn't be a huge surprise. And modders definitely don't need to pretend to know something more than Bethesda does because they're able to achieve something under an entirely different set of circumstances compared to whatever constrained Fallout 4's development.

[jeffglobal]

 

 

 

@Tricky Ok, then what group or Software House should I use as a standard, that is also moddable, or at least able to break down and look thru their stuff?

 

Beth staff suffer from the H1B Visa problem/threat too? Let Bollywood make the games and see how it's more about the talent than the cost of production after a certain threshold..."Cost less, not always cheaper.™" Anonymous trademarked that!

 

 

 

 

There isn't a 'standard' for game development in these times that I'm aware of, just different combinations of teams, producers, and resources, etc.

 

Any armchair developer can poke fun at the mistakes that they see in a game. I'm not defending Bethesda, because I see and recognize some of the mistakes that were pointed out in the OP, but I do question needing to take issue with such 'mistakes' as if they're a black mark on the game studio, implying Bethesda doesn't quite make the 'grade' compared to others. These are the realities of game development, wherever you look. If you had infinite time, money, or whatever, you could probably make a perfect game that didn't include a terrible UV map here and there.

 

But people don't. These things happen. This shouldn't be a huge surprise. And modders definitely don't need to pretend to know something more than Bethesda does because they're able to achieve something under an entirely different set of circumstances compared to whatever constrained Fallout 4's development.

 

 

 

You misunderstood my intention. By pointing out mistakes, I don't infer lack of competency, I'm offering iterative QA/QI. There's a difference between something like peer review in an academic environment, where we go and try to rip the heart out of a colleague's thesis, but it's for the mutual benefit of the scientific community. Ripping apart a person's thesis and process of design of experiment, doesn't mean they are being insulted at all. But it IS combat, even if just intellectual. We never say, "you're a pos" but we can and do say often "you're thesis is a pos" with supporting evidence...

 

But, when I saw that type of shoddy work, I paused, cause it makes no sense to me. Maybe there were a couple of interns that did this game asset? Kinda looks like it. That's really what I'm asking...wtf is the real milieu of a Production House, Idk, and now I'm confused, cause it can be fast and loose, maybe?

 

I'm just wondering what exactly is professional level, since my almost 3 months of graphics work really doesn't give me a good calibration on things.

 

For example. There's this guy named Mike Pavlovich. He uses at least the same tools I do, except he's been using them for years. His stuff is ridiculously well made from the vertex, to the final render. I watch him do stuff and just get nauseated by his skill. His speed and quality of work is overwhelming. He thinks he's a dumbass cause he can't do complex logic nodes in substance designer...

 

Then I see someone shoving stuff they should have deleted in a jumble in the UV map, and I wonder, wtf is this compared to what I've been watching and studying. Maybe, the modding community can be more than just a parasitic after market ecosystem and develop into something that can be mutually beneficial to the game maker and the modder. Collaboration with modders. What would a game life cycle be like if the modding community for the game collaborated with the developers to leverage all that latent creativity...and to the developer, do it on the cheap?

 

I apologize that my questions in isolation sound kinda stupid. I'll try to make sure there's better context from now on.

 

Either way, Tricky, you might as well just have a beer, because a computer from google just beat the crap out of one of the world's best Go players. That means, at least from the ruling classes' point of view, there is no instance where a human will be necessary. From now on, just like the IBM Watson ads saying, lets solve those problems for you, google has a computer just as powerful. MIT guys just made a scalable quantum computer, so us plebs are so done, it's not even funny.

 

http://www.wired.com/2016/03/googles-ai-wins-first-game-historic-match-go-champion/

http://news.mit.edu/2016/quantum-computer-end-encryption-schemes-0303

Edited March 13, 2016 by jeffglobal

[TrickyVein]

I suppose I reacted to the too-often seen 'lol what was Bethesda thinking???' refrain in so many mods where whatever fix the author provides is just as questionable or plainly unjustified.

[Millenia]

Eh, it happens all the time. My personal work is all squeaky clean but my actual work has smoothing errors, janky UVs and unnecessary geo left over due to time constraints.

[bben46]

It's called working under a deadline. If you don't complete your assigned projects on time, you get penalized on your next performance review leading to a reduced pay increase or bonus. If it works, and is not something that will be easily seen by end users ( in this case the players) you turn it in. The QA people test it and it works on their test machines. You get credit for on time work and have more time to complete your other assigned projects.

 

You can report it, but if it doesn't cause a game problem I doubt if they will fix it. And if they do a fix, it will be a very small part of a bigger patch.

[jeffglobal]

@bben46 Well, my main intention was to see if the product of the game publishers could/would leverage the modding community to make their games better. There's seems to be a firewall between the modding community and game publishers except in rare instances when some mods were so large and good they actually incorporated that into their games or they became retail spinoffs themselves.

 

Given the latest DeepMind team made a computer that beat a Master Go player for the first time, supposibly losing a fourth game, after the Google team already won the match 3 games to zero, and the million dollars for charity. What will be left to wet sacks of talking monkeys like us will maybe be creation of worlds we would like to spend time in; either in Oculus Rift type VR or this silly flatscreen. At least for a little while, until the machine intelligence does that better too. Exponential growth is only noticed right before the end, because most of the speed is near the end. AI advancement is going vertical, we're gonna go horizontal.

 

There will be no way a person can beat a machine under time pressure, but we can potentially delay being beaten if we collaborate. IBM's Watson already beats MDs diagnostic skills, reading xrays and CT/MRI scans. They now advertise Watson as a problem solver for business. Being smart will be no defense against unemployment. The machine beating a go master means, it's on. That was the final hurdle for totally autonomous machines, for the military at least. That machine can replace your spouse, with the right hardware small enough and the right nice platform to cuddle enough--today. 2016 Sarah Conner, 2016.