bcsp Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) I asked this question over on LL but I'd like to ask it here. For anyone that knows papyrus. Why does the string table grow? What causes it to grow? Why would it grow much bigger for some people and hardly grow at all for others? If the table is comprised of script variables and script properties then: Properties:Is the number of properties not constant as long as you are not changing the load order? From my experimentation with the save breaking mods it does not seem to matter if they are filled or not. ie unfilled properties are still added to the string table. It also does not seem to matter if the quest is active or not. Are there any conditions under which properties are not part of the string table in the beginning but added at a later stage? Variables:From (hours of) experience looking at my saves in the save game cleaner I know that the number of active scripts does not change much. You might have 1 active script in one save and 30 in another. They come, they are processed and they are gone. They would certainly add a certain amount of fluctuation to total string count but once the script has completed local variables are removed from the string table. One thing I have noticed over this time is that the number of script instances grows as the game is played. Is this related? Are script instances causing variable strings to be held in the string table? Does it then slowly inflate the string table as the number of different scripts (remember there are no duplicate entries in the string table) that are instantiated increases? Help me get my head around this please. :confused: Edit: Variables also don't need to be initialized to a value to make their way onto the string table.It's a pity TESVESSE doesn't have an export function we could compare saves with to see where the extra strings are coming from. Edited March 30, 2016 by bcsp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredErica Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Maybe asking in Bethesda forums is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsp Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Meh, 99% of the posts there are people asking questions. No answers. Including the original strcount bug post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikatze13 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 good evening and thanks a bunch for finding the reason behind the savegame corruption. The issue was driving me nuts for what - the past two and a half bloody years it seems? Feels good to finally know what is happening there. love that kind of tinkering and appreciate the efforts =] Anyway, I'm just testing my load order one mod at a time and I thought someone might be interested in the results so here it goes: Procedure: Taking one mod out of my load order and run loot & check MO bsa tab after re-enabling it for consistency; values measured at the game start (in the lal cell, default preset nord char) after no new script messages appear in the papyrus log I started with 61400 strings in the table, these are the deltas after disabling the respective mod: iNeed: 619 Wet and Cold Holidays: 318 Disparity: 556 Interesting NPCs: 3424, neat Inconsequental NPCs: 0, like, it did not affect the strCount at all Less intrusive HUD: 208 Moonlight Tales: 686 Better Vampires: 435 A Pack of Followers I merged together (Vilja, Arissa, Inigo and the like): 2190 Also I noticed some fluctuation between the new games - it was about +/- 50 strings, even though I did not change anything. Another thing I found: the first automatic autosave the game does after creating a char uses about 100-200 strings more than the one I do manually 10 sec later. Sometimes, this first autosave crashes the TESVESSE tool when checking the papyrus section - not the strCount overflow error but "invalid type: 64 data 1:66796 member:2". The following manual save is fine. Weird. PS: I have close to 400 mods currently installed and merged the hell out of them. I'm down to 55k strings now and continue to check mods I suspect to add additional strings (which looks like a ton of work, but hey). Am I safe in the assumption that only mods containing scripts in their folder structure pose the threat of strCount explosions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpitomyofShyness Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hey I compiled a list of links with info on this issue. The first list are spreadsheets on specific mods and their impact which will probably help you out. The second list just links to the three forum threads that I am aware of currently discussing this issue. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HY4b4L3tJuYPxJazEc8XeF-q3WXI11u76hlKKleQel8/edit?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikatze13 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HY4b4L3tJuYPxJazEc8XeF-q3WXI11u76hlKKleQel8/edit?usp=sharing AwesomeMaybe we should get a spreadsheet with enabled write access for everyone (dunno if that's a thing) so people can easily contribute? Edited March 31, 2016 by kamikatze13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcsp Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Measuring strings by uninstalling mods may not be very accurate. See the "Impact of mod uninstallation" section in the OP. A certain amount of strings may remain 'baked in'. And yes. As far as we know, strings are only added by scripts. Edited March 30, 2016 by bcsp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikatze13 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Measuring strings by uninstalling mods may not be very accurate. See the "Impact of mod uninstallation" section in the OP. A certain amount of strings may remain 'baked in'. And yes. As far as we know, strings are only added by scripts. I'm not uninstalling them in the classical sense - I exclude them from my load order and create a new game each time Uninstalling mods is bad. Been there, done that, burned myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpitomyofShyness Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 One of the problems with completely open to modification speadsheets is that people can 'deface' them. But I'd be willing to compile the currently available info into a single speadsheet and copy it once a day so if something like that happens we still have a backup of the correct info. I'll get that set up now and then post a link in the various forum threads. I'll put at the top that the numbers being posted are provisional and estimates, and that as more info becomes available they will be updated. I'll also put it a request that nobody 'delete' information but merely add in their numbers alongside other numbers that people have gotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikatze13 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) One of the problems with completely open to modification speadsheets is that people can 'deface' them. But I'd be willing to compile the currently available info into a single speadsheet and copy it once a day so if something like that happens we still have a backup of the correct info. I'll get that set up now and then post a link in the various forum threads. I'll put at the top that the numbers being posted are provisional and estimates, and that as more info becomes available they will be updated. I'll also put it a request that nobody 'delete' information but merely add in their numbers alongside other numbers that people have gotten. microsofts office online has versioning history and rollback possibilities so that shouldn't be a problem. pretty sure dropbox also does that. ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶a̶b̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶g̶o̶o̶g̶l̶e̶.̶ Google also offers version history. Kudos for helping out, @EpitomyofShyness ;) Edited March 30, 2016 by kamikatze13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts