[WIP] Mod Picker

[Druuler]

 

Should this feature be implemented, this will allow the downloading of a mod without actually going to the site the mod is hosted on (eg. Nexus or LL). Is my understanding correct?

That was the plan, but they have said a few times now that they have scrapped this feature, so it will not be implemented. They will provide links to the mod's page on Lover's Lab, Steam Workshop, and Nexus Mods and a user will have to find the download there by themselves.

 

Okay, good to know. That particular feature, as stated, was rather worrisome to me. It seemed to me that a direct download link would have allowed the bypassing of things such as site membership/age filters, and site bannings. It also seems that it would have defeated the purpose of driving more traffic to the mod page itself.

[Brigand231]

Some folks, just like drivers.... don't have the time, or inclination, to learn what all is going on under the hood. Due to time constraints, or other concerns, they just want to be able to play. Now, mod-picker as a service, does have some potential for those folks. They can pick a load list, and be reasonably assured of compatibility among their chosen mods. Using an automated system is never perfect though..... it can get close, and I don't know if they are going to do anything about a 'bashed patch'.... That remains to be seen. If it even gets off the ground, given some of the issues they are having elsewhere.

Makes sense to me. I guess what I was suggesting or requesting was that if/when it is implemented that it is made evident that there are other options besides copying someone else's answers. To paraphrase from The Matrix, offer a choice between a red and blue pill. While I certainly do not think of most users as sheep or lemmings, I do think that there are a lot of potential modders out there that would find their wings and thrive if shoved out of the nest as we're led to believe birds do to teach their young to fly. Of course that idea is of no help to those who do not have the time or mindset or ability to take advantage of tools and opportunities, but simply handing out answers without context or understanding and no encouragement to learn is not necessarily doing anybody any favors either. It simply quiets them until they need help again.

 

I'm not against automated systems or introducing more tools to streamline operations. If I am forced to be "against" anything, it is requests for things to be changed or customized for individual consumption due to someone not giving enough F's to learn how to do it themself because their time is too valuable and, instead, expecting modders to spend their time to make it for them. That is the situation I wish to prevent and correct. Does that make any more sense?

[SplashDamage]

Educating a larger group does take the workload (sometimes overwhelming) off the smaller group, sure. That doesn't justify though, the method that some attempt to use, to get that "educating" done. That just propagates across the generations as what's expected or given whether is constructive or destructive. If destructive, which could be subjective to a certain point, an entity simply won't last, no matter how large it happens to be.

 

I can say that trying to troubleshoot something for someone else, especially over the phone, can be an exhausting experience (oh how many times have I told a Dell tech, sure I have that PC plugged directly into a wall output -uh huh, sure i did- now what where you asking me to do again?).

 

Maybe there is a better way. Maybe there isn't. I'm not really sure, unless we explore those possibilities (within reason of course) first hand, without having someone else or group decide what we can and/or can't do, by taking those options away. Who knows.

[gabba]

 

 

Should this feature be implemented, this will allow the downloading of a mod without actually going to the site the mod is hosted on (eg. Nexus or LL). Is my understanding correct?

That was the plan, but they have said a few times now that they have scrapped this feature, so it will not be implemented. They will provide links to the mod's page on Lover's Lab, Steam Workshop, and Nexus Mods and a user will have to find the download there by themselves.

 

Okay, good to know. That particular feature, as stated, was rather worrisome to me. It seemed to me that a direct download link would have allowed the bypassing of things such as site membership/age filters, and site bannings. It also seems that it would have defeated the purpose of driving more traffic to the mod page itself.

 

 

I understand your worries, but the Mod Picker team are only proposing to feed nxm:// links to Mod Organizer/NMM/whatever tool one by one. It's the exact equivalent of clicking the "Download with NMM" button for you, and for that to do anything you need to have your Nexus credentials entered into your mod manager. It doesn't bypass anything.

 

Personally I really hope that the auto-download feature doesn't get scrapped. It's the key feature that would, down the line, allow someone with little free time (say a dad with a wife and several kids) to just go to the Mod Picker website, find a load order by a reputable community member, click GO, and an hour later have a playable, fully configured modded Skyrim ready to roll. The ingredients are already there to automate everything, said community member would probably have to provide scripts to clean or repack properly certain mods, and the mods themselves would be downloaded from the Nexus. (Before over-reacting, read the rest of my post :wink: ).

 

Mod picker isn't only for "dummies" wanting to just click a button though. It's incredibly useful for people who want to make informed decisions about which mods they pick, because as you add mods to your "shopping list" on the website, it will be able to tell you if a new mod you're about to pick has any potential conflict with your list. It does that by storing a list of all the records modified by every mod.

 

The "driving traffic to the mod page" issue is indeed a bit delicate. Let's be realistic, some people are just gonna download and never bother to check the mod page. It's not very different from people who just follow a guide by a Youtuber or the STEP one though: do you think they bother reading the descriptions? They just click the "download with NMM" button or go find the download link and close the page. However the huge increase in ease of use Mod Picker will bring will bring a potentially insane number of people who will be able to experience Skyrim mods. Among those, a good proportion will be in awe at how awesome such-and-such mod is and will feel grateful towards its author. And they're gonna want documentation, updates and bugfixes. (Because everybody knows that anything not updated frequently these days is "dead". Like Chess and Soccer, no updates in a while so nobody plays them... wait.) It's at this point that the Mod Picker website must make it as easy as possible to get to the actual author page and thank him through endorsements or cold hard cash. Or the hard love of bug reports.

 

Regarding the bug reporting specifically, I think some mod authors are afraid of the support issues new users coming through Mod Picker could bring - pretty much the same issue raised every time someone dares to utter the word m.o.d.p.a.c.... *ducks* . If you think about it though, with the most stable load orders from people who know what they're doing rising to the top through a well-conceived reputation system, support problems will diminish. People will mostly run, say, Arthmoor's or Gopher's fine-tuned load order instead of coming to poor mod authors with their messed up, horribly maimed Skyrim install that they further damaged with half-understood cleaning instructions. So when they report bugs it will be actual bugs not the result of unspeakable mod mixing. Even people who mix their own mod list should have less bugs with the advanced warnings about compatibility, and some basic annoying questions such as "Is it compatible with X" will be less frequent.

 

All in all this project will make the process of making 300+ mods working together a little bit more bearable, and you'll be able to share the fruit of those hundreds of hours of work with others while respecting copyright. I really hope the project is allowed to realize its full vision. If there ever was a time to be open-minded, it's now.

 

 

EDIT: As an aside, I think that if the Nexus and some mod authors find it's too unfair to be able to download without visiting pages (and thus viewing Nexus ads and having the slim chance of being motivated to donate to the mod author), automated downloads from Nexus triggered by Mod Picker could be reserved to premium Nexus members or members who have at least donated to a mod author once. It would massively restrict the potential user base and I think it would be a mistake to not test the system without paywall first - as I explained above Nexus traffic will probably increase not decrease. But it could be a solution down the line if things are not satisfactory.

 

(And removed repeated paragraph.)

[TerrorFox1234]

I understand your worries, but the Mod Picker team are only proposing to feed nxm:// links to Mod Organizer/NMM/whatever tool one by one. It's the exact equivalent of clicking the "Download with NMM" button for you, and for that to do anything you need to have your Nexus credentials entered into your mod manager. It doesn't bypass anything.

 

Personally I really hope that the auto-download feature doesn't get scrapped. It's the key feature that would, down the line, allow someone with little free time (say a dad with a wife and several kids) to just go to the Mod Picker website, find a load order by a reputable community member, click GO, and an hour later have a playable, fully configured modded Skyrim ready to roll. The ingredients are already there to automate everything, said community member would probably have to provide scripts to clean or repack properly certain mods, and the mods themselves would be downloaded from the Nexus. (Before over-reacting, read the rest of my post :wink: ).

 

It's already been scrapped and isn't even on the table for consideration anymore. (I'll get into that in a second). Regardless, even without it, your example of someone with very little free time being able to benefit from Mod Picker is still true. While auto-downloading won't be thing they will still be able to save a lot of time in regards to the search for mods (and building a mod list). Let's say one wants to play an evil mage play-through...they could look through the public mod lists (similar to modwat.ch, but with more information on compatibility and such) and find a list that is built around that playstyle. They get an "at-a-glance" view of the complexity of the mod list and be able to see issues others might be having with that mod list. From their it's a matter of going to the Nexus page, reading the description, downloading the mod, and following the steps on Mod Picker for setting up a chosen mod list. Time from start to playing will be cut down by a great deal.

 

That's of course for the people that want the path of least resistance due to time constraint. I must admit...I am involved in quite a few projects outside of MP, plus my day job, and free time is scarce. I do love digging around inside mods and getting my hands dirty, even if only to understand something so I can explain it to someone else. There are times though when being able to cut my setup time in half sounds magical. (I may be in this for selfish reasons :tongue:)

 

There will still be those who prefer to build their own mod lists rather than use someone else, and Mod Picker is suitable for that task as well. I'm sure there will also be those that don't want to use Mod Picker at all and that's perfectly fine.

 

Mod picker isn't only for "dummies" wanting to just click a button though. It's incredibly useful for people who want to make informed decisions about which mods they pick, because as you add mods to your "shopping list" on the website, it will be able to tell you if a new mod you're about to pick has any potential conflict with your list. It does that by storing a list of all the records modified by every mod.

 

Bingo

 

The "driving traffic to the mod page" issue is indeed a bit delicate. Let's be realistic, some people are just gonna download and never bother to check the mod page. It's not very different from people who just follow a guide by a Youtuber or the STEP one though: do you think they bother reading the descriptions? They just click the "download with NMM" button or go find the download link and close the page. However the huge increase in ease of use Mod Picker will bring will bring a potentially insane number of people who will be able to experience Skyrim mods. Among those, a good proportion will be in awe at how awesome such-and-such mod is and will feel grateful towards its author. And they're gonna want documentation, updates and bugfixes. (Because everybody knows that anything not updated frequently these days is "dead". Like Chess and Soccer, no updates in a while so nobody plays them... wait.) It's at this point that the Mod Picker website must make it as easy as possible to get to the actual author page and thank him through endorsements or cold hard cash. Or the hard love of bug reports.

The "driving traffic to the mod page" is a big part of why we agreed to drop it. We still believe that people should read author's descriptions and *completely* understand everything a mod is intended to do before downloading. Interaction with the mod author in regards to praise/donations/bug reports should also happen on the site they've chosen to host their mod(s) on. We do hope to make modding accessible to more people though, as the initial learning curve right now, for the average gamer, is pretty damn steep.

 

Regarding the bug reporting specifically, I think some mod authors are afraid of the support issues new users coming through Mod Picker could bring - pretty much the same issue raised every time someone dares to utter the word m.o.d.p.a.c.... *ducks* . If you think about it though, with the most stable load orders from people who know what they're doing rising to the top through a well-conceived reputation system, support problems will diminish. People will mostly run, say, Arthmoor's or Gopher's fine-tuned load order instead of coming to poor mod authors with their messed up, horribly maimed Skyrim install that they further damaged with half-understood cleaning instructions. So when they report bugs it will be actual bugs not the result of unspeakable mod mixing. Even people who mix their own mod list should have less bugs with the advanced warnings about compatibility, and some basic annoying questions such as "Is it compatible with X" will be less frequent.

Yes. Precisely. There seems to be a bit of an assumption from some that, somehow, Mod Picker will cause unseemly amounts of bug reports due to user error. Our reputation system aims to help in that regard by allowing reputable people's recommendations and information rise. It promotes accuracy and knowledge over "look at my cool mod list". The goal is to build a system that quickly does away with inaccuracies and misinformation through the reputation/commenting/review systems. Even people without a name like Arthmoor or Gopher can gain high amounts of reputation simply through helping others and doing their best to spread accurate information.

 

All in all this project will make the process of making 300+ mods working together a little bit more bearable, and you'll be able to share the fruit of those hundreds of hours of work with others while respecting copyright. I really hope the project is allowed to realize its full vision. If there ever was a time to be open-minded, it's now.

That's the goal we set out with. Thanks for the kind words and support :smile:

[matortheeternal]

The beta has begun.

[selenameeka]

I'm looking forward to this. It sort of reminds me of the link system of websites that was done over 20 years ago, where there was one website that hosted links for certain things based on a common interest. This in no way detracted from a specific website, but it allowed one to find *more* sites of a similar interest. Obviously, this is a very simplistic way of saying what your program is, especially since you have a lot of actual features, but it just reminded me of those days.

 

I hope the beta has success!

[Deleted1867404User]

Nice done! There are just too much mods for Skyrim.

And several mods get buried! So I'm looking forward to this!

Cheers!

[Zefron]

Any Updates? I thought you guys were aiming for November 1st to open the site to the public?

[matortheeternal]

Any Updates? I thought you guys were aiming for November 1st to open the site to the public?

We couldn't get everything lined up in time for a November 1st opening. We've pushed back opening our doors to the public to November 11.

 

In regards to updates: I've mostly been working on the moderator control panel and stuff related to that.