Nevermore Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 Too many things to point out specificly so I'll just make stamtents: I never stated that if you grow up in a christian home you WILL be christian, I said "odds are" that you will be. Those are completly diffrent things. I wouldn't make such a statment because I grew up in a luthern house hold. Even went to church often as a child. Even got confirmed 3 years back (soly because my mother watned me to be, I was still thinking about it at that point). A diety, such as Zues, would most likly care a LOT if no one belived in them anymore. If they didn't care then why bother "getting" us in the after life if our beliefs don't matter? My Fact about abbused persons is true. Some abused people DO "forget" of the times they were abused. The memory is still in them, they just refuse to recal it. Agian read my post carfully and I never said ALL abused people do so. And the connection to religion is plain to see. As for many people commiting suside if they *knew* god was false: I'm right. Many people would. Some people throw them selves at religion when a tragidy accours. Take for instance this situation:A poor single mom has her one and only child killed. The woman turns devote christion. This is possable and surly happend more then once. So then the only thinking keeping her alive is her religion. If you were to kick that out from under her she would parish, and possably by her own hand.Many people are so devote that if they were to lose their religion in one swift motion, they woul kill themselves. If even two people did so I'd be right. And I stake my reputation on the fact that at least 2 people would kill themselves. "Many" is subjective, it is you who interprits it's meaning, when it realy can mean "more then one". I never siad god (or gods) DON"T exist, I said they probly don't and gave facts to back my statment up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojlnir Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 We can agree to disagree on many of these points, but I still think you're flat wrong on two major ones: the psychology of abused persons connection to religion and the mass suicide argument. First off, you are correct in noting that people sometimes do not recall traumatic events in their lives (its called post-traumatic stress syndrome) and I really don't see this "obvious" connection to religion. Are you trying to argue that people who are religious suffer from a sort of post-traumatic stress syndrome? You really need to be more clear on this point.Secondly, the argument for mass suicide is complete conjecture on your part. You have absolutely no proof that such a thing would occur. The "case" you supply is conveniently tailored to your arguments exact needs...which means you made it up. Also, two people is not "many people" by any stretch of the imagination. If you must retreat to arguing semantics, then you have lost the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albareth Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 You said pretty much what i have many times before... Just a hell of a lot longer lol But you should never really say God doesnt exists and stuff... because its all about Faith in the long run...let people believe what they wish, i personally do not believe in a extreme being... But im openminded,... so i dont really say he DOESNT exist...i just lack in the faithThe difference there-in is that of an agnostic and atheist. If you are agnostic you don't see a specific reason to believe in god over anything else, which I'm guessing is your case by that post. For an atheist like me it's precisely NOT about faith, it's about the fact that no thing should ever be taken on faith, and lacking faith there is no solid scientifical reason why there should be a god. In a way it's like inventing a fake friend just to make you feel better, all the major facts of the universe have been explained to some degree by modern science, faith - for me - is obsolete. I don't argue against anyones right to believe what they want if it makes them feel better, but I respect those that are able to reconsider their views. Born and raised a christian - I'm hella proud to have taken a stand by abdicating and becoming an atheist. :shifty: ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malchik Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Albareth - do you have as much respect for those who having been atheist change their views and begin to believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the00phoenix Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 In fact there are vague scientific hints, that there may be a "god", gravitation for instance. What is it? Where does it come from? No one knows, but it litteraly makes the universe go round. To this afterlife thing: Take a look at nature. Everything is in a cycle, an animal is born, eats e.g.: fruits, dies, decays and becomes fertile soil for new fruits, just to line out a rough circle. Or another one: Water from the ocean evaporates, becomes a cloud is blown to the mainland, rains into a river and thus comes back to the sea finally. Everyone can find other examples easily.You may notice that cycles are not limited to living entities, it looks more like a higher principle. Lets assume that there is a soul (whatever you define as soul) in every living being and apply the "cycle principle" to this assumption, where could that lead? Right, Palingenesis.Everything is some kind of energy, so we can further assume that the soul is some kind of force also, which would add up to the Palingenesis theory if you consider a closed system, where the proposition of energy conservation is effectual and where souls are the powers within this system. What would be our purpose then? To live and To find out, I think. ^_^ I know, highly philosophical and full of ifs and assumptions, but this has some logix anyway, IMHO. Greetz, the__phoenix #edit: @Marxist male without a father: I wonder why the mods didn't say anything, but wounldn't it be better to post a link to such a long text instead of posting the whole monstrosity ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albareth Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Albareth - do you have as much respect for those who having been atheist change their views and begin to believe?Not really - since they'd almost certainly be doing so out of pure faith and not logic, but I certainly respect ANYONE who dares reconsider whatever he is more than anyone doesn't. (so I'd respect them more than born atheists who won't do the research to confirm/deny their philisophy). Me not respecting those as much is just the normal human way of comparing everyone else to yourself - everyone does it, though only some admit it to themselves. I do however have a very fundamental rule in dealing with any political/religious thoughts or other topics of philisophical nature, that I always acknowledge that nobody can KNOW with 100% certainty what is right, ever, and neither can I, so I just like everyone else am always missing some part of the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albareth Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 In fact there are vague scientific hints, that there may be a "god", gravitation for instance. What is it? Where does it come from? No one knows, but it litteraly makes the universe go round. Where does that come from? Gravity is a very basic law of the universe, one of THE most basic ones, all matter is attracted to all other matter to a degree governed by mass and distance. Nothing godly about gravity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pikeman85 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Haven't had time to read the whole thing, only the first few posts, but I saw Peregrine mention something about scientific theories. Theories are just descriptions of what we see in nature, which has been tested and retested. You are refering to a hypothesis when you say there is little evidence for it. With no evidence for something, there is not even a hypothesis. So a theory must have a great deal of evidence. And by a great deal, I mean a /GREAT DEAL/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the00phoenix Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Where does that come from? Gravity is a very basic law of the universe, one of THE most basic ones, all matter is attracted to all other matter to a degree governed by mass and distance. Nothing godly about gravity...It is a basic law indeed, but consider this examples: the power behind magnetism is a wave, gamma rays are particles, the light has attributes of waves (when it "travels") and particles (when it hits an object) - paradox of light. These are facts we learned in middle school and can be measured. Now what is gravitation since it is neither a wave nor a stream of particles. You can measure the acceleration of fall g of an object but you can't gage the power which is behind g. We know that there is something, but haven't discovered its source yet. God? Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrid Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 The idea of God has been around since man could think. It's difficult being the only highly intellegent animals on earth because we can't ask say penquins what they think. However even if we had another creature like that our religions would have been entangeld with each other. OT, we have never exploed the deepes't regions of the sea's I hold out hope some intellegent life lives there like in that movie, but I doubt it, no proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.