Source Code Access

[Jopo80]

OK, in this issue game developers have different policies. Firaxis the developer of Civilization 5 has promised source code access to its modding community. This is NOT to be mistaken with ENGINE ACCESS which is kept locked away, after all the engine is a business secret of the corporation. But still it is possible to give the modding community access to even the source code without compromising those secrets.

 

So, my question is: Can we have source code access in Fallout? The possibilities this would open up are endless. You could make new game mechanics and features, new skills, new stats etc. etc.

 

Mainly my interest in getting full access is to add new stats and new skills and code their effects. I don´t know how much access would be required to add that stuff, but hopefully it can be done. Also I´d like to lift the maximum limits on skills and stats, so you can have stats of more than 10 and skills of more than 100 (and to have them show on the screen aswell).

 

Also I´d like to make unarmed attacks targetable, so you can target limbs with punches and kicks and sword blows.

 

Also I´d like to have weapon and unarmed attack MODES, you could switch your weapon from semi-automatic to automatic fire or switch to using the underslung grenade launcher like the M203 +M16 combo and of course you could make a melee attack with all rifles using the rifle butt or bayonet. Also you could switch your unarmed attacks to different modes, especially in VATS where you have time to think. You could switch from different styles of punching to different styles of kicking if your character knows martial arts.

 

All sorts of different things could be possible if we get enough access.

 

Cheers!

[laochra]

Your asking a lot here, the SDK is released, is it not enough, or do you need all the developers secrets with that?

 

Besides a plea on a forum isn't gonna get you anywhere.

 

Learn how to use the Geck and someday you may be able to do some of your mods.

[Fonger]

start buying Bethesda stock.

 

eventually you will own enough to give yourself access

[NorthWolf]

Never going to happen, especially not so early. Give it 10 - 20 years, and then if Bethesda is feeling generous they might drop the source code.

 

Anyway, in most communities where the SDK isn't considered "sufficient" (every modding community ever from what I see) you get the script extenders that exist so you can do this kind of thing... if you really want to be able to do any of what you just described start learning how NVSE works. Most of the time script extenders can go pretty far provided there's enough people contributing plugins to them. Though as my normal disclaimer for, like... the first three months of working with any new game, I can't really say I'm as savvy as the other people here, so sorry if I've gotten anything wrong. This is my experience elsewhere, though.

[SpeedyB64]

Take a look at what Oblivion modders have done with the Script extender (more specifically script extender plugins) OBGE has practically replaced the rendering engine of that game. I'm not sure if NVSE supports plugins though.

[NorthWolf]

I'm pretty sure the NVSE supports plugins, or at least its documentation stated as much... though it's heavily meshed with FOSE documentation, so I could be mistaken.

[rickerhk]

NVSE does support plugins. That's how the Stutter Remover and the Geck powerup (for NVSE) work.

You probably need to ask in the Bethsoft forum, NVSE thread for specifics on how to use plugins.

[NorthWolf]

Thanks for the information, I didn't realize they had a thread on the developer forums. Cheers.

[rickerhk]

Thanks for the information, I didn't realize they had a thread on the developer forums. Cheers.

 

It's on the Mods forum

 

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1197681-beta-new-vegas-script-extender-nvse-v2/

[Jopo80]

OK, so you can go pretty far with script extenders, that´s good to hear. Maybe all that I´m suggesting won´t need source code access after all. But the thing is Civilization 5 modding community HAS been promised source code ACCESS, not engine access, but source code access. So why could we not have the same? I don´t really know if we need source access, but the more ambitious mods might find it useful, if they intend to change the game a lot, add new fundamental elements etc.

 

Here´s some of my ideas on what to do, tell me if they are possible right now or do we need more access to do this stuff.

 

1. Lift skill and SPECIAL maximum limits and make them visible on UI aswell

Currently I cannot make SPECIALS above 10 in the GECK, the program automatically sets them back to 10 if I try, does anyone know how to lift this limit? The same thing goes for skills I think, you cannot make them above 100.

 

2. Add new skills and maybe SPECIALS

Many skills could be added, among them PILOTING, used for vehicles and horses if they are added.

Another skill could be CRAFTING, the skill of crafting different items and CHEMISTRY, used to manufacture different complex chems, gunpowder for ammo etc.. ELECTRONICS and COMPUTERS could also be skills used to repair broken computers and electronics and computer skill to hack terminals instead of science which could be used in different ways.

 

3. Add vehicles and horses to the game.

Oblivion has horses, so why could fallout not have vehicles. How cool would it be to ride around wasteland with a HUMWEE with a heavy machine gun on the roof for dealing with super-mutants and deathclaws. Vehicles and horses can also be used to carry items, just stash your extra ammo to the trunk of your HUMWEE.

 

4.Add an ACTION MENU to the UI

This idea I got from playing Armed Assault 2. In ARMA 2 rolling the mouse wheel brings up the action menu in which you find things such as "get in vehicle as driver" or "get in vehicle as gunner or commander or get in the back" also you find options such as open door etc. This menu is very handy when you have multiple actions that you can perform.

 

5. Add WEAPON MODES to UI

This is from ARMA 2 aswell. In it you can switch your weapon mode by pressing the space bar (or whatever key you set). Different weapon modes are single shot, semi-auto and auto fire. Hand grenades are also activated from weapon modes.

 

I think Fallout could have similar weapon modes as ARMA 2. Here´s how it would work:

*Space bar (or some other key): Switch weapon mode

In guns this would be semi-auto and auto fire. In machine guns you could toggle between slower and faster rate of fire. Also in weapon modes you could switch to the underslung grenade launcher like the M203 mounted under the M-16 or other assault rifles. Mounting a grenade launcher to a rifle could be a weapon mod. In unarmed and melee attacks you could toggle between different attack styles, like punching or kicking and more advanced styles of punches and kicks like kick to the knees or kick to the head, side kick, back kick etc. etc.

Also in unarmed attacks you should be able to just do STUN damage, so you just stun the enemy and knock him unconscious instead of killing him, non-lethal blows that is. Non-lethal attacks could be used to disarm and capture enemies.

*Right mouse button: Secondary attack. In guns this would be a melee attack like hitting with rifle butt or bayonet or with pistol you could "pistol whip" the enemy (just hit him with the pistol). In melee weapons this would be blocking or a secondary style of attack.

*Press mouse wheel/mouse wheel button: Switch to optics. Pressing the mouse wheel would bring up the iron sights or scope

 

6. Add Prone position to movement.

This should be a basic in movement. You should be able to "hit the deck", take cover by going prone and crawling around. It´s just a matter of adding the animations and keys to the UI. Taking cover would be enormously useful in a firefight, plus some weapons should be more accurate when fired from a prone position, especially if the weapon is mounted with a bipod, like a sniper rifle.

 

7. Add targetable melee and unarmed attacks.

This would be very handy aswell. To be able to target limbs and body parts with melee weapons and unarmed attacks. If the enemy is bothering you, just hack off his arm or head.

 

8. Add ARMA 2 style command menu to team members.

I think ARMA 2 has a pretty good command system for controlling team members.

Here´s how it works:

You can have basically an unlimited number of team members. buttons F1-F10 selects team members and buttons F11 and F12 scroll to next/previous ten members of your unit.

When you have a team member selected you press number buttons 1-0 to select different command menus, such as move menu (all different move commands), action menu (different action commands) combat mode menu etc. etc. and when you enter a menu you select a command by pressing a number button.

So for example to order team member 2 to go to danger mode, you press F2 and then 7 (combat menu) and then 4 (danger).

Also you can order a team member or members to move to a location by simply activating them by pressing F1-F10 and them pointing a location on screen and pressing enter. When a team member is activated you automatically go to command mode and your crosshair turns to a command symbol, such as "go there" or "attack this", so you can quickly order your team around and point them destinations and targets on the screen.

 

This kind of a command menu would be useful if Fallout was developed towards more squad oriented action like Fallout Tactics in which you control a small squad.

 

9. Add a REALISTIC wounding system etc.

I think wounding should be made more realistic. For example characters who are wounded could start losing blood (losing HP) and if not treated this would kill in a while. For example, if you are hit in your legs you start losing blood -5 HP a minute at start. If you are hit again the blood loss worsens and you start losing HP more rapidly. When you get weak from blood loss your vision gets blurred and your hands shake making hitting difficult. Blood loss can be treated by applying bandages and tourniquets and by taking special blood clotting medicines.

 

Also PAIN could be modeled into the system. If you are hit and especially if you have a crippled limb, your character goes into "agony" and just starts rolling in the ground helpless until he gets some pain killers like morphine or healing powder. Your characters ENDURANCE level also tells how resistant he/she is to pain. Weaker characters start shaking from a small wound but a stronger character can take a beating before he/she starts feeling the effects. You can also get a "pain resistant" perk which reduces your vulnerability to pain. Pain affects your aiming, when you are wounded and in pain your hands shake and it is difficult to aim.

 

Also getting crippled legs would mean you can only crawl.

 

 

That and much much more could be added.