Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

Crimsonhawk87 · April 10, 2016

In response to post #36468930. #36486615, #36489005, #36508740, #36509535, #36509560 are all replies on the same post.

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dikr wrote: I have been testing the survival beta for two days on a new game and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Apart from some minor tweaks that are needed here and there it really makes this game shine.

FO4 isn't about chasing progress anymore and rushing through quest lines. It completely lost its slightly themeparkish, dumbed down character and is much more immersive now, as it forces you to live an actual LIFE. To think about resources, planning your journeys, avoiding encounters which are too risky and staging your assaults carefully.

A lot of things are suddenly much more important now; from SPECIAL and perk choices to bag space, beds, empty bottles, chemistry, cooking and wild Radstags (nom!). Another big game changer: you don't build a settlement just to sustain your puppet settlers anymore, you build it first and foremost to sustain yourself!

Additionally, the world feels more 'whole' without fast travel, while you roam around and live off the land, you discover all kinds of little hideaways. Filler content that was just fluff in vanilla but now has real value. Also the amount of random world encounters I experienced is much higher now that I actually use the world to travel, rather than the map.

Died three times so far (lvl 8 now); one-shotted by the Death Claw in Concord the first time I took a go at him, acid-showered to death in two seconds by an elite Bloatfly and once in a random encounter which was hilarious but I won't spoil it. If you scout out beds before you attempt dangerous things, the time lost isn't so bad. I see how it can be annoying but yeah, the whole saving mechanic makes the game much more exciting.

Compared to this, New Vegas' Hardcore mode was a stroll in the park and its exactly what the franchise needed: an actual challenge for experienced gamers in a game that is suddenly way more complex and interesting.

Only things that are missing in my mind, are portable bedrolls and backpacks. Also the console should definitely be enabled in the release version for stuff like debugging and to set the timescale to a more realistic value.

I applaud the folks at Bethesda who are responsible for advocating this game mode internally. <3

Quote
printerkop wrote: true i must admit, if you've gotten used to it, it's a lot of fun.
Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse, and maybe lower the adrenaline a bit when you do save.

or atleast think about a way to let us save in some way or another, i could be happy with if you're allowed to save once each hour aside from beds.

And the console is just mandatory in a game that can be unstable at times, i must admit that the game is more stable then other Bethesda games, but sometimes you get stuck, and then we need atleast the TCL command to get out of it, cause if that happens a few times in a row, it might spoil the fun a bit.

Quote
dikr wrote: "Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse"

Great suggestion that, printerkop. I find myself doing 'one hour naps' all the time (while settlement building, for instance, or running out of dungeons to the nearest bed after a couple of successful encounters) and that kinda messes up the flow of the game. Either this or allowing you to save freely in settlements and friendly towns (when they aren't under attack).

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Crimsonhawk87 wrote: Firstly, portable bedrolls/sleeping bags for wilderness saving should be available, with the caveat of being unable to do it with enemies close by and would go along way to mollifying many of the arguments against survival mode (and yes, I realize it will be modded in 2 secs after the patch goes live, but it should be a vanilla feature). The second thing is to implement a travel system similar to Skyrim's wagons that travel from settlement to settlement and to designated areas of the map (ie, Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill. etc) AFTER they are discovered via exploration.

The first one is an easy fix and will be in the game, regardless of whether it is intended or not. The second one, not an easy fix, but alot more immersive than fast travel and tons better than having to hoof it all the way across the map every time to need to turn in a quest objective. The settlements can already be linked to share resources, so why not a 5-10 second travel animation with whatever travel system that is appropriate (Vertibird, Armored Bus, horse and buggy, boat) for various locations? Basically it's more "immersive" fast travel, but to only locations that you have previously discovered. It could even be incorporated into the settlement building process (have to build helipad, bus station, stable, boat dock...etc) to really make it immersive.

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dikr wrote: @Crimsonhawk87
I agree. It's a single player game: everyone should be able to fine-tune it to their own preferences.

About your public transport idea: Lore wise it would make the most sense if it would be airships I reckon. The B.o.S. already uses them and it makes sense: they can also be pretty low tech and except for rad storms you are safe from all the dangers of the surface world. (Until super mutants start to use AAA, lol). They should be a lot smaller, more rickety and duck-taped together compared to that monster the B.o.S. is flying though.

Also building an airship-stop at your settlement should be expensive and tied in with perks.

Personally I loved the real-time airship transportation in WoW, back in the days when I played it.

Of course brahmin carts and caravans could be another option: caravans are already in the game. They just need to be fleshed out a bit more. The game needs carts I suppose. But traveling in real-time with carts would be much more tedious, (remember the Skyrim intro?), and would probably require a hard skip / cut scene I suppose.

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dikr wrote: Double post. -deleted-

It's always bothered me that you craft a laser with duct tape, some metal, and various odds and ends, build insanely intricate robots, and craft city sized settlements (all within the scope of the vanilla game, mind you, never mind the stuff you can do with mods) but you can't somehow get the multitude of vehicles lying around the wasteland (already with fuel, judging by the explosions when you shoot them) up and running. I get that player vehicles adds a very tricky mechanic to the game, but are you telling me that the Minutemen couldn't get a bus running, or that Brahman pulled wagon trains aren't viable? Vertibirds are already implemented in the game, albeit in a limited capacity, so you are telling me some industrious soul wouldn't have started their own transportation company for hire? The lack of vehicle use in game, to me, is just as lore breaking as not having to eat, drink, or sleep to keep going. Survival mode fixes one of those, it damn well should fix the other.

maybenexttime · April 10, 2016

In response to post #36520105.

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I think people use the automatic save due to FO4 instability... meaning the game crashing randomly.

We all know with mods added the game becomes more unstable. It would suck to play for an hour and the game crashes on you in which you have to restart from the last save point.

Deleted7103646User · April 10, 2016

In response to post #36520105. #36526300 is also a reply to the same post.

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this...

some people probably don't think it's tedious to do stuff over and over again.
I spontaneously CTD'd more times then i can count already with this game.
Usually i can play for 5 hours straight, so the game is definitely more stable then it's predecessors, but it still crashes randomly, and i for one don't want to be bothered by doing everything over again each time it crashes.

killgore · April 11, 2016

I played FNV story in 1 run before f4 release in survival mode and in FNV it was well done if a bit on the easy side, you had use for food and water and all items so it was good

now this survival mode of f4 is a pile of poo because it's not the same game at all

FO4 is about building and crafting stuff aka hoarding items around..the sleep I can play with the lack of fast travel NO the game is entirely around crafting stuff this is not an action fps

also this game is badly designed from the start, that loose max health with rads breaks half the perks, I would bet on the fact it was an after tought

so maybe before trying to make ( I say try because we all played better survival mods than that...crap) maybe they should try to fix the base game mechanics which are badly broken

the whole eat drink system doesnt even work because you are a builder and can create your own food and drink very easily, so its just a matter of building sources and using them

to have a proper survival mode you would have to rewrite 70% of the story remove all crafting change half the perks redo the whole game loot it's never happening so its only a waste of dev time, leave the serious adult stuff to modders Bethesda

and keep improving on your fallout-craft since you decided to do that

Edited April 11, 2016 by killgore

Ianana · April 11, 2016

In response to post #36468930. #36486615, #36489005, #36508740, #36509535, #36509560, #36520995 are all replies on the same post.

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dikr wrote: I have been testing the survival beta for two days on a new game and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Apart from some minor tweaks that are needed here and there it really makes this game shine.

FO4 isn't about chasing progress anymore and rushing through quest lines. It completely lost its slightly themeparkish, dumbed down character and is much more immersive now, as it forces you to live an actual LIFE. To think about resources, planning your journeys, avoiding encounters which are too risky and staging your assaults carefully.

A lot of things are suddenly much more important now; from SPECIAL and perk choices to bag space, beds, empty bottles, chemistry, cooking and wild Radstags (nom!). Another big game changer: you don't build a settlement just to sustain your puppet settlers anymore, you build it first and foremost to sustain yourself!

Additionally, the world feels more 'whole' without fast travel, while you roam around and live off the land, you discover all kinds of little hideaways. Filler content that was just fluff in vanilla but now has real value. Also the amount of random world encounters I experienced is much higher now that I actually use the world to travel, rather than the map.

Died three times so far (lvl 8 now); one-shotted by the Death Claw in Concord the first time I took a go at him, acid-showered to death in two seconds by an elite Bloatfly and once in a random encounter which was hilarious but I won't spoil it. If you scout out beds before you attempt dangerous things, the time lost isn't so bad. I see how it can be annoying but yeah, the whole saving mechanic makes the game much more exciting.

Compared to this, New Vegas' Hardcore mode was a stroll in the park and its exactly what the franchise needed: an actual challenge for experienced gamers in a game that is suddenly way more complex and interesting.

Only things that are missing in my mind, are portable bedrolls and backpacks. Also the console should definitely be enabled in the release version for stuff like debugging and to set the timescale to a more realistic value.

I applaud the folks at Bethesda who are responsible for advocating this game mode internally. <3

Quote
printerkop wrote: true i must admit, if you've gotten used to it, it's a lot of fun.
Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse, and maybe lower the adrenaline a bit when you do save.

or atleast think about a way to let us save in some way or another, i could be happy with if you're allowed to save once each hour aside from beds.

And the console is just mandatory in a game that can be unstable at times, i must admit that the game is more stable then other Bethesda games, but sometimes you get stuck, and then we need atleast the TCL command to get out of it, cause if that happens a few times in a row, it might spoil the fun a bit.

Quote
dikr wrote: "Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse"

Great suggestion that, printerkop. I find myself doing 'one hour naps' all the time (while settlement building, for instance, or running out of dungeons to the nearest bed after a couple of successful encounters) and that kinda messes up the flow of the game. Either this or allowing you to save freely in settlements and friendly towns (when they aren't under attack).

Quote
Crimsonhawk87 wrote: Firstly, portable bedrolls/sleeping bags for wilderness saving should be available, with the caveat of being unable to do it with enemies close by and would go along way to mollifying many of the arguments against survival mode (and yes, I realize it will be modded in 2 secs after the patch goes live, but it should be a vanilla feature). The second thing is to implement a travel system similar to Skyrim's wagons that travel from settlement to settlement and to designated areas of the map (ie, Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill. etc) AFTER they are discovered via exploration.

The first one is an easy fix and will be in the game, regardless of whether it is intended or not. The second one, not an easy fix, but alot more immersive than fast travel and tons better than having to hoof it all the way across the map every time to need to turn in a quest objective. The settlements can already be linked to share resources, so why not a 5-10 second travel animation with whatever travel system that is appropriate (Vertibird, Armored Bus, horse and buggy, boat) for various locations? Basically it's more "immersive" fast travel, but to only locations that you have previously discovered. It could even be incorporated into the settlement building process (have to build helipad, bus station, stable, boat dock...etc) to really make it immersive.

Quote
dikr wrote: @Crimsonhawk87
I agree. It's a single player game: everyone should be able to fine-tune it to their own preferences.

About your public transport idea: Lore wise it would make the most sense if it would be airships I reckon. The B.o.S. already uses them and it makes sense: they can also be pretty low tech and except for rad storms you are safe from all the dangers of the surface world. (Until super mutants start to use AAA, lol). They should be a lot smaller, more rickety and duck-taped together compared to that monster the B.o.S. is flying though.

Also building an airship-stop at your settlement should be expensive and tied in with perks.

Personally I loved the real-time airship transportation in WoW, back in the days when I played it.

Of course brahmin carts and caravans could be another option: caravans are already in the game. They just need to be fleshed out a bit more. The game needs carts I suppose. But traveling in real-time with carts would be much more tedious, (remember the Skyrim intro?), and would probably require a hard skip / cut scene I suppose.

Quote
dikr wrote: Double post. -deleted-

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Crimsonhawk87 wrote: It's always bothered me that you craft a laser with duct tape, some metal, and various odds and ends, build insanely intricate robots, and craft city sized settlements (all within the scope of the vanilla game, mind you, never mind the stuff you can do with mods) but you can't somehow get the multitude of vehicles lying around the wasteland (already with fuel, judging by the explosions when you shoot them) up and running. I get that player vehicles adds a very tricky mechanic to the game, but are you telling me that the Minutemen couldn't get a bus running, or that Brahman pulled wagon trains aren't viable? Vertibirds are already implemented in the game, albeit in a limited capacity, so you are telling me some industrious soul wouldn't have started their own transportation company for hire? The lack of vehicle use in game, to me, is just as lore breaking as not having to eat, drink, or sleep to keep going. Survival mode fixes one of those, it damn well should fix the other.

I want a motorcycle. Yes, A big one with travel packs for junk.

Deleted7103646User · April 11, 2016

In response to post #36538710.

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I have to agree with you on the fact that it is silly that you can create tons of food and water, so it ain't really survival, more resource management, make sure you grow enough and carry it around and you'll never get hungry or thirsty, yeah, just for one second till you hit the hotkey your water and food is under.

after playing it for a while it became a bit tedious to have to drink and eat all the time.
in that regard it definitely has nothing to do with survival.

the combat however is nice only the first 20 levels, after that you become a tank again and again almost can't die in combat anymore, only when they throw 20 molotovs in 10 seconds at you or shoot a mininuke (which are sometimes ridiculously powerful because the enemies have 3x damage perks), or some ridiculously high level enemies spawn all of a sudden right in front of you.

i do like the game, but it needs a serious overhaul to be really challenging and fun from beginning to end.

I might give that a go once the creation kit is released, but i doubt if it is easy to do since the AI is just bad, it needs to be rewritten, right now they just make enemies have a lot of HP or have weapons with humongous damage, while some are just flies you can swat, there's no real balance here.

STALKER did this a lot better, enemies and player both had the ability to kill eachoter in a few shots, and they ran around and hide behind cover much smarter. They where also always there, they didn't spawn, you could see the enemies in the PDA all across the map infact walking around.

That being said, you could ignore the crafting stuff alltogether and just play the game, only use looted weapons from enemies and only take bullets with you, also, when you take the no rads from eating and drinking perk you don't need to worry about food and drinks, you can just gobble up an animal after you killed it.
it is doable, but i agree that it still needs to be rewritten if you want to call it survival mode.

EDIT: hah, just when i typed this i got an email from Bethesda that i can BETA test the Creation kit, time to dig into the scripts some deeper. Edited April 11, 2016 by Guest

Fatalmasterpiece · April 11, 2016

On 4/10/2016 at 2:46 PM, Crimsonhawk87 said:

In response to post #36468930. #36486615, #36489005, #36508740, #36509535, #36509560 are all replies on the same post.

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dikr wrote: I have been testing the survival beta for two days on a new game and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Apart from some minor tweaks that are needed here and there it really makes this game shine.

FO4 isn't about chasing progress anymore and rushing through quest lines. It completely lost its slightly themeparkish, dumbed down character and is much more immersive now, as it forces you to live an actual LIFE. To think about resources, planning your journeys, avoiding encounters which are too risky and staging your assaults carefully.

A lot of things are suddenly much more important now; from SPECIAL and perk choices to bag space, beds, empty bottles, chemistry, cooking and wild Radstags (nom!). Another big game changer: you don't build a settlement just to sustain your puppet settlers anymore, you build it first and foremost to sustain yourself!

Additionally, the world feels more 'whole' without fast travel, while you roam around and live off the land, you discover all kinds of little hideaways. Filler content that was just fluff in vanilla but now has real value. Also the amount of random world encounters I experienced is much higher now that I actually use the world to travel, rather than the map.

Died three times so far (lvl 8 now); one-shotted by the Death Claw in Concord the first time I took a go at him, acid-showered to death in two seconds by an elite Bloatfly and once in a random encounter which was hilarious but I won't spoil it. If you scout out beds before you attempt dangerous things, the time lost isn't so bad. I see how it can be annoying but yeah, the whole saving mechanic makes the game much more exciting.

Compared to this, New Vegas' Hardcore mode was a stroll in the park and its exactly what the franchise needed: an actual challenge for experienced gamers in a game that is suddenly way more complex and interesting.

Only things that are missing in my mind, are portable bedrolls and backpacks. Also the console should definitely be enabled in the release version for stuff like debugging and to set the timescale to a more realistic value.

I applaud the folks at Bethesda who are responsible for advocating this game mode internally. <3

Quote
printerkop wrote: true i must admit, if you've gotten used to it, it's a lot of fun.
Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse, and maybe lower the adrenaline a bit when you do save.

or atleast think about a way to let us save in some way or another, i could be happy with if you're allowed to save once each hour aside from beds.

And the console is just mandatory in a game that can be unstable at times, i must admit that the game is more stable then other Bethesda games, but sometimes you get stuck, and then we need atleast the TCL command to get out of it, cause if that happens a few times in a row, it might spoil the fun a bit.

Quote
dikr wrote: "Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse"

Great suggestion that, printerkop. I find myself doing 'one hour naps' all the time (while settlement building, for instance, or running out of dungeons to the nearest bed after a couple of successful encounters) and that kinda messes up the flow of the game. Either this or allowing you to save freely in settlements and friendly towns (when they aren't under attack).

Quote
Crimsonhawk87 wrote: Firstly, portable bedrolls/sleeping bags for wilderness saving should be available, with the caveat of being unable to do it with enemies close by and would go along way to mollifying many of the arguments against survival mode (and yes, I realize it will be modded in 2 secs after the patch goes live, but it should be a vanilla feature). The second thing is to implement a travel system similar to Skyrim's wagons that travel from settlement to settlement and to designated areas of the map (ie, Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill. etc) AFTER they are discovered via exploration.

The first one is an easy fix and will be in the game, regardless of whether it is intended or not. The second one, not an easy fix, but a lot more immersive than fast travel and tons better than having to hoof it all the way across the map every time to need to turn in a quest objective. The settlements can already be linked to share resources, so why not a 5-10 second travel animation with whatever travel system that is appropriate (Vertibird, Armored Bus, horse and buggy, boat) for various locations? Basically it's more "immersive" fast travel, but to only locations that you have previously discovered. It could even be incorporated into the settlement building process (have to build helipad, bus station, stable, boat dock...etc) to really make it immersive.

Quote
dikr wrote: @Crimsonhawk87
I agree. It's a single player game: everyone should be able to fine-tune it to their own preferences.

About your public transport idea: Lore wise it would make the most sense if it would be airships I reckon. The B.o.S. already uses them and it makes sense: they can also be pretty low tech and except for rad storms you are safe from all the dangers of the surface world. (Until super mutants start to use AAA, lol). They should be a lot smaller, more rickety and duck-taped together compared to that monster the B.o.S. is flying though.

Also building an airship-stop at your settlement should be expensive and tied in with perks.

Personally I loved the real-time airship transportation in WoW, back in the days when I played it.

Of course brahmin carts and caravans could be another option: caravans are already in the game. They just need to be fleshed out a bit more. The game needs carts I suppose. But traveling in real-time with carts would be much more tedious, (remember the Skyrim intro?), and would probably require a hard skip / cut scene I suppose.

Quote
dikr wrote: Double post. -deleted-
It's always bothered me that you craft a laser with duct tape, some metal, and various odds and ends, build insanely intricate robots, and craft city sized settlements (all within the scope of the vanilla game, mind you, never mind the stuff you can do with mods) but you can't somehow get the multitude of vehicles lying around the wasteland (already with fuel, judging by the explosions when you shoot them) up and running. I get that player vehicles adds a very tricky mechanic to the game, but are you telling me that the Minutemen couldn't get a bus running, or that Brahman pulled wagon trains aren't viable? Vertibirds are already implemented in the game, albeit in a limited capacity, so you are telling me some industrious soul wouldn't have started their own transportation company for hire? The lack of vehicle use in game, to me, is just as lore breaking as not having to eat, drink, or sleep to keep going. Survival mode fixes one of those, it damn well should fix the other.

The problem is that the game isn't scaled correctly for that. Due to hardware limitations, many players would have issues with loading grids when traveling at accelerated speeds and find themselves in half loaded cells. Enemies and objects would pop in and out around them due to not having enough time to load.

Furthermore the design scale was not build with travel speed in mind. The distance from Concord to Lexington is much shorter in game than real life and is intended to create the illusion of distance traveled while walking.

This isn't an issue while 100m above the ground in a vertibird because you cannot notice loading issues or scaling like this as much. On the ground it is a much greater problem. This is why vehicles like cars and motorcycles do not work well in these games.

MagnaBob · April 11, 2016

In response to post #36538710. #36546365 is also a reply to the same post.

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killgore wrote: I played FNV story in 1 run before f4 release in survival mode and in FNV it was well done if a bit on the easy side, you had use for food and water and all items so it was good

now this survival mode of f4 is a pile of poo because it's not the same game at all
FO4 is about building and crafting stuff aka hoarding items around..the sleep I can play with the lack of fast travel NO the game is entirely around crafting stuff this is not an action fps
also this game is badly designed from the start, that loose max health with rads breaks half the perks, I would bet on the fact it was an after tought
so maybe before trying to make ( I say try because we all played better survival mods than that...crap) maybe they should try to fix the base game mechanics which are badly broken
the whole eat drink system doesnt even work because you are a builder and can create your own food and drink very easily, so its just a matter of building sources and using them

to have a proper survival mode you would have to rewrite 70% of the story remove all crafting change half the perks redo the whole game loot it's never happening so its only a waste of dev time, leave the serious adult stuff to modders Bethesda
and keep improving on your fallout-craft since you decided to do that

Quote
printerkop wrote: I have to agree with you on the fact that it is silly that you can create tons of food and water, so it ain't really survival, more resource management, make sure you grow enough and carry it around and you'll never get hungry or thirsty, yeah, just for one second till you hit the hotkey your water and food is under.

after playing it for a while it became a bit tedious to have to drink and eat all the time.
in that regard it definitely has nothing to do with survival.

the combat however is nice only the first 20 levels, after that you become a tank again and again almost can't die in combat anymore, only when they throw 20 molotovs in 10 seconds at you or shoot a mininuke (which are sometimes ridiculously powerful because the enemies have 3x damage perks), or some ridiculously high level enemies spawn all of a sudden right in front of you.

i do like the game, but it needs a serious overhaul to be really challenging and fun from beginning to end.

I might give that a go once the creation kit is released, but i doubt if it is easy to do since the AI is just bad, it needs to be rewritten, right now they just make enemies have a lot of HP or have weapons with humongous damage, while some are just flies you can swat, there's no real balance here.

STALKER did this a lot better, enemies and player both had the ability to kill eachoter in a few shots, and they ran around and hide behind cover much smarter. They where also always there, they didn't spawn, you could see the enemies in the PDA all across the map infact walking around.

That being said, you could ignore the crafting stuff alltogether and just play the game, only use looted weapons from enemies and only take bullets with you, also, when you take the no rads from eating and drinking perk you don't need to worry about food and drinks, you can just gobble up an animal after you killed it.
it is doable, but i agree that it still needs to be rewritten if you want to call it survival mode.

EDIT: hah, just when i typed this i got an email from Bethesda that i can BETA test the Creation kit, time to dig into the scripts some deeper.

STALKER imho was and is the best FPS game ever. It was certainly the most deadly.

Crimsonhawk87 · April 11, 2016

In response to post #36561500.

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Fatalmasterpiece wrote:

On 4/10/2016 at 2:46 PM, Crimsonhawk87 said:

In response to post #36468930. #36486615, #36489005, #36508740, #36509535, #36509560 are all replies on the same post.

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Quote
dikr wrote: I have been testing the survival beta for two days on a new game and I am thoroughly enjoying it. Apart from some minor tweaks that are needed here and there it really makes this game shine.

FO4 isn't about chasing progress anymore and rushing through quest lines. It completely lost its slightly themeparkish, dumbed down character and is much more immersive now, as it forces you to live an actual LIFE. To think about resources, planning your journeys, avoiding encounters which are too risky and staging your assaults carefully.

A lot of things are suddenly much more important now; from SPECIAL and perk choices to bag space, beds, empty bottles, chemistry, cooking and wild Radstags (nom!). Another big game changer: you don't build a settlement just to sustain your puppet settlers anymore, you build it first and foremost to sustain yourself!

Additionally, the world feels more 'whole' without fast travel, while you roam around and live off the land, you discover all kinds of little hideaways. Filler content that was just fluff in vanilla but now has real value. Also the amount of random world encounters I experienced is much higher now that I actually use the world to travel, rather than the map.

Died three times so far (lvl 8 now); one-shotted by the Death Claw in Concord the first time I took a go at him, acid-showered to death in two seconds by an elite Bloatfly and once in a random encounter which was hilarious but I won't spoil it. If you scout out beds before you attempt dangerous things, the time lost isn't so bad. I see how it can be annoying but yeah, the whole saving mechanic makes the game much more exciting.

Compared to this, New Vegas' Hardcore mode was a stroll in the park and its exactly what the franchise needed: an actual challenge for experienced gamers in a game that is suddenly way more complex and interesting.

Only things that are missing in my mind, are portable bedrolls and backpacks. Also the console should definitely be enabled in the release version for stuff like debugging and to set the timescale to a more realistic value.

I applaud the folks at Bethesda who are responsible for advocating this game mode internally. <3

Quote
printerkop wrote: true i must admit, if you've gotten used to it, it's a lot of fun.
Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse, and maybe lower the adrenaline a bit when you do save.

or atleast think about a way to let us save in some way or another, i could be happy with if you're allowed to save once each hour aside from beds.

And the console is just mandatory in a game that can be unstable at times, i must admit that the game is more stable then other Bethesda games, but sometimes you get stuck, and then we need atleast the TCL command to get out of it, cause if that happens a few times in a row, it might spoil the fun a bit.

Quote
dikr wrote: "Though i wish they would just add a menu to each bed that would simply let you save there without sleeping perse"

Great suggestion that, printerkop. I find myself doing 'one hour naps' all the time (while settlement building, for instance, or running out of dungeons to the nearest bed after a couple of successful encounters) and that kinda messes up the flow of the game. Either this or allowing you to save freely in settlements and friendly towns (when they aren't under attack).

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Crimsonhawk87 wrote: Firstly, portable bedrolls/sleeping bags for wilderness saving should be available, with the caveat of being unable to do it with enemies close by and would go along way to mollifying many of the arguments against survival mode (and yes, I realize it will be modded in 2 secs after the patch goes live, but it should be a vanilla feature). The second thing is to implement a travel system similar to Skyrim's wagons that travel from settlement to settlement and to designated areas of the map (ie, Diamond City, Goodneighbor, Bunker Hill. etc) AFTER they are discovered via exploration.

The first one is an easy fix and will be in the game, regardless of whether it is intended or not. The second one, not an easy fix, but a lot more immersive than fast travel and tons better than having to hoof it all the way across the map every time to need to turn in a quest objective. The settlements can already be linked to share resources, so why not a 5-10 second travel animation with whatever travel system that is appropriate (Vertibird, Armored Bus, horse and buggy, boat) for various locations? Basically it's more "immersive" fast travel, but to only locations that you have previously discovered. It could even be incorporated into the settlement building process (have to build helipad, bus station, stable, boat dock...etc) to really make it immersive.

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dikr wrote: @Crimsonhawk87
I agree. It's a single player game: everyone should be able to fine-tune it to their own preferences.

About your public transport idea: Lore wise it would make the most sense if it would be airships I reckon. The B.o.S. already uses them and it makes sense: they can also be pretty low tech and except for rad storms you are safe from all the dangers of the surface world. (Until super mutants start to use AAA, lol). They should be a lot smaller, more rickety and duck-taped together compared to that monster the B.o.S. is flying though.

Also building an airship-stop at your settlement should be expensive and tied in with perks.

Personally I loved the real-time airship transportation in WoW, back in the days when I played it.

Of course brahmin carts and caravans could be another option: caravans are already in the game. They just need to be fleshed out a bit more. The game needs carts I suppose. But traveling in real-time with carts would be much more tedious, (remember the Skyrim intro?), and would probably require a hard skip / cut scene I suppose.

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dikr wrote: Double post. -deleted-
It's always bothered me that you craft a laser with duct tape, some metal, and various odds and ends, build insanely intricate robots, and craft city sized settlements (all within the scope of the vanilla game, mind you, never mind the stuff you can do with mods) but you can't somehow get the multitude of vehicles lying around the wasteland (already with fuel, judging by the explosions when you shoot them) up and running. I get that player vehicles adds a very tricky mechanic to the game, but are you telling me that the Minutemen couldn't get a bus running, or that Brahman pulled wagon trains aren't viable? Vertibirds are already implemented in the game, albeit in a limited capacity, so you are telling me some industrious soul wouldn't have started their own transportation company for hire? The lack of vehicle use in game, to me, is just as lore breaking as not having to eat, drink, or sleep to keep going. Survival mode fixes one of those, it damn well should fix the other.

The problem is that the game isn't scaled correctly for that. Due to hardware limitations, many players would have issues with loading grids when traveling at accelerated speeds and find themselves in half loaded cells. Enemies and objects would pop in and out around them due to not having enough time to load.

Furthermore the design scale was not build with travel speed in mind. The distance from Concord to Lexington is much shorter in game than real life and is intended to create the illusion of distance traveled while walking.

This isn't an issue while 100m above the ground in a vertibird because you cannot notice loading issues or scaling like this as much. On the ground it is a much greater problem. This is why vehicles like cars and motorcycles do not work well in these games.

Yes, I know that it is a game mechanic problem, but I was basically saying that fast travel could be more immersive, instead of just getting rid of it altogether (in survival mode, where immersion is supposed to be the "thing"). You don't see the entire journey when you hop aboard a wagon in Skyrim (with that cloned, creepy driver who's eyes seem to follow you where ever you move), so I figure something like that could have been added as a more immersive fast travel. Hop an armored bus, horse and buggy, Vertibird, boat, etc., show a 2-3 animation of it pulling off, then boom, at your destination. A small thing perhaps, and fast travel does not bother me in the slightest, but an "immersive" alternative to those that want to play survival mode but don't want the hassle of trying to get from one end of the map to the other because some dumb ass settlers can't shoot straight.

killgore · April 11, 2016

In response to post #36538710. #36546365, #36563250 are all replies on the same post.

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killgore wrote: I played FNV story in 1 run before f4 release in survival mode and in FNV it was well done if a bit on the easy side, you had use for food and water and all items so it was good

now this survival mode of f4 is a pile of poo because it's not the same game at all
FO4 is about building and crafting stuff aka hoarding items around..the sleep I can play with the lack of fast travel NO the game is entirely around crafting stuff this is not an action fps
also this game is badly designed from the start, that loose max health with rads breaks half the perks, I would bet on the fact it was an after tought
so maybe before trying to make ( I say try because we all played better survival mods than that...crap) maybe they should try to fix the base game mechanics which are badly broken
the whole eat drink system doesnt even work because you are a builder and can create your own food and drink very easily, so its just a matter of building sources and using them

to have a proper survival mode you would have to rewrite 70% of the story remove all crafting change half the perks redo the whole game loot it's never happening so its only a waste of dev time, leave the serious adult stuff to modders Bethesda
and keep improving on your fallout-craft since you decided to do that

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printerkop wrote: I have to agree with you on the fact that it is silly that you can create tons of food and water, so it ain't really survival, more resource management, make sure you grow enough and carry it around and you'll never get hungry or thirsty, yeah, just for one second till you hit the hotkey your water and food is under.

after playing it for a while it became a bit tedious to have to drink and eat all the time.
in that regard it definitely has nothing to do with survival.

the combat however is nice only the first 20 levels, after that you become a tank again and again almost can't die in combat anymore, only when they throw 20 molotovs in 10 seconds at you or shoot a mininuke (which are sometimes ridiculously powerful because the enemies have 3x damage perks), or some ridiculously high level enemies spawn all of a sudden right in front of you.

i do like the game, but it needs a serious overhaul to be really challenging and fun from beginning to end.

I might give that a go once the creation kit is released, but i doubt if it is easy to do since the AI is just bad, it needs to be rewritten, right now they just make enemies have a lot of HP or have weapons with humongous damage, while some are just flies you can swat, there's no real balance here.

STALKER did this a lot better, enemies and player both had the ability to kill eachoter in a few shots, and they ran around and hide behind cover much smarter. They where also always there, they didn't spawn, you could see the enemies in the PDA all across the map infact walking around.

That being said, you could ignore the crafting stuff alltogether and just play the game, only use looted weapons from enemies and only take bullets with you, also, when you take the no rads from eating and drinking perk you don't need to worry about food and drinks, you can just gobble up an animal after you killed it.
it is doable, but i agree that it still needs to be rewritten if you want to call it survival mode.

EDIT: hah, just when i typed this i got an email from Bethesda that i can BETA test the Creation kit, time to dig into the scripts some deeper.

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MagnaBob wrote: STALKER imho was and is the best FPS game ever. It was certainly the most deadly.

it's not that I hate survival modes but I played several "needs" mods in oblivion-skyrim-f3 and fnv and all of them were better than the official survival beta of F4 so I'm a bit disappointed :/ especially after new vegasi
also the 1st 2 dlcs are : craft robots & more crafting items so yeah for me F4 is a crafting game now I went with it and have fun building stuff..I just hope they won't do that to the next elder scroll O_O

loved stalker too but my favorite fps AI I think was FEAR(1) if you made any noise they were coming to you guaranteed and often 1 enemy per corridor not all from the same direction

I mod bethesda games since 2006 so I've seen what the modder community can create and it's way better than the survival beta ;) Edited April 11, 2016 by killgore

Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

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