Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

[TrentTheWanderer]

In response to post #36113280. #36113495, #36113620, #36113775, #36113885, #36115700, #36115745, #36116315 are all replies on the same post.

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ellsdragon wrote: B*tch b*tch b*tch.
Seriously, that's what I'm getting out of almost 90% of the comments on here. "Mods are necessary, I can't live without them. It's stupid that they turned off the console, I'll need that too." It's a damn BETA. They want people to test it and see about how they can break it before allowing mods. And the console? If you can't play without cheating, that's not playing.
I can't even come up with a proper comparison because of the sheer amount of stupid being crammed into this community. If you have a problem with Beth wanting to try and fix the damn game, get off your ass and MAKE a damn game. Then you can understand how Beth feels when someone bitches about how sh*t your game is.

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kuhaica wrote: the console is mainly a debugger...

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jaitsu wrote: So in other words, ellsdragon, "WHAAA WHAAA WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY THE SAME AS ME I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PASS JUDGEMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE USE SOMETHING I DON"T WAAAAHHAAHAAHAHA"


Pull your head from your ass.

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Tantalus010 wrote: Normally I'd totally agree with you, but with the number of minor issues and bugs in Bethesda's games, the console actually IS a necessity. That's why I'm opting out on this one.

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mcchuggernaut wrote: Yeah, without the console how can I get the broken level 4 merchants to even show up at my settlements? Or get the brahmin or Preston off the roof of my house? Bethesda has known about these problems since release, but hasn't bothered to fix them yet. The console isn't for cheating in Fallout 4, it's basically for fixing all the bugs.

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Zzyxzz wrote: You know nothing Jon Snow, eeeh ellsdragon

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Ellendar12 wrote: The thing is though the point of a beta is for those bugs to actually annoy you enough that you actually report them. I imagine with console enabled every time you hit a minor bug many people will just console fix it and keep on rolling rather than giving bethesda the information they need to actually fix things. Remember, a beta isn't put our for our benefit, betas exist for the benefit of the development team and it isn't a surprise that it is designed for their benefit rather than our enjoyment.

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hivKORN wrote: you cant test these features
https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4s-all-new-survival-mode/2016/03/29/96
without one bug who was reported since release day.
Is it so hard to understand!?,
Console is debugger and a helper to get the id of an problematic object as accurately as possible. Instead of posting an description where they can find rock x and tree y and hole z in worldmesh.
But the report of the right id will change nothing.
Bethesda will always remain Bethesda.
"War never changes" :D

So what you are saying is that you're surprised this modding community wants to play with mods?

I think you might need to spend some time re-evaluating your expectations.

[jet4571]

Everyone making an excuse for the beta patch disabling mods kindly explain why every single official not beta patch for FO4 has attempted to disable mods by clearing the plugins.txt.

 

Please explain why all previous Bethesda titles when they released a beta patch did not disable mods but all of a sudden FO4 needs a %100 vanilla no mod state and all those other games didn't.

 

Please explain why NMM has to uncheck and check the read only flag on the plugins.txt for every single not beta official patch.

 

I do get the logic of needing a clean environment for a beta test but that does defeat the very purpose of an open beta. Bethesda has the ability to do a vanilla beta test in house. Open betas are to see if something outside can mess up the programing and since this game is to be modded then mods is needed to see if the patch wont be more of a problem than a fix. Take 3DS Max or Photoshop, when they do an open beta they are not forcing you to use the base program, they expect and want plugins for them to be used. Yes both Photoshop and 3DS Max can use mods, they are called plugins but in reality they are mods. Autodesk and Adobe want their software tested in a real world environment because they are making patches and updates for that very environment. If they only made patches for their programs without plugins they will miss a whole lot of problems only they can fix. A video game needing real world environment testing is no different than the very tools used to make that video game. Think before making excuses for Bethesda. Bethesda doesn't need you to make excuses for them because they don't care if mod users complain to begin with.

 

My theory on why Bethesda is trying to disable mods is... duht dun duh.. Consoles. To make console mods possible and the nice little addition to the main menu I believe they are planning on doing away with the old way of enabling mods and have that all handled via the main menu. and they falsely believe that we will get stuck in the old way and not adapt. That's just my theory and it is the only one I can come up with that makes sense considering Bethesda's history.

[Kilator]

In response to post #36113280. #36113495, #36113620, #36113775, #36113885, #36115700, #36115745, #36116315, #36124765 are all replies on the same post.

  Reveal hidden contents

  Quote

ellsdragon wrote: B*tch b*tch b*tch.
Seriously, that's what I'm getting out of almost 90% of the comments on here. "Mods are necessary, I can't live without them. It's stupid that they turned off the console, I'll need that too." It's a damn BETA. They want people to test it and see about how they can break it before allowing mods. And the console? If you can't play without cheating, that's not playing.
I can't even come up with a proper comparison because of the sheer amount of stupid being crammed into this community. If you have a problem with Beth wanting to try and fix the damn game, get off your ass and MAKE a damn game. Then you can understand how Beth feels when someone bitches about how sh*t your game is.

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kuhaica wrote: the console is mainly a debugger...

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jaitsu wrote: So in other words, ellsdragon, "WHAAA WHAAA WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY THE SAME AS ME I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PASS JUDGEMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE USE SOMETHING I DON"T WAAAAHHAAHAAHAHA"


Pull your head from your ass.

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Tantalus010 wrote: Normally I'd totally agree with you, but with the number of minor issues and bugs in Bethesda's games, the console actually IS a necessity. That's why I'm opting out on this one.

  Quote

mcchuggernaut wrote: Yeah, without the console how can I get the broken level 4 merchants to even show up at my settlements? Or get the brahmin or Preston off the roof of my house? Bethesda has known about these problems since release, but hasn't bothered to fix them yet. The console isn't for cheating in Fallout 4, it's basically for fixing all the bugs.

  Quote

Zzyxzz wrote: You know nothing Jon Snow, eeeh ellsdragon

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Ellendar12 wrote: The thing is though the point of a beta is for those bugs to actually annoy you enough that you actually report them. I imagine with console enabled every time you hit a minor bug many people will just console fix it and keep on rolling rather than giving bethesda the information they need to actually fix things. Remember, a beta isn't put our for our benefit, betas exist for the benefit of the development team and it isn't a surprise that it is designed for their benefit rather than our enjoyment.

  Quote

hivKORN wrote: you cant test these features
https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4s-all-new-survival-mode/2016/03/29/96
without one bug who was reported since release day.
Is it so hard to understand!?,
Console is debugger and a helper to get the id of an problematic object as accurately as possible. Instead of posting an description where they can find rock x and tree y and hole z in worldmesh.
But the report of the right id will change nothing.
Bethesda will always remain Bethesda.
"War never changes" :D

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TrentTheWanderer wrote: So what you are saying is that you're surprised this modding community wants to play with mods?

I think you might need to spend some time re-evaluating your expectations.

Maybe if bethesda wanst so freaking lazy and optimized their damned piece of shaite game. These mods give me over 30 fps improvement. I literally cant play without them.

[Bauldric]

In response to post #36116435. #36116935, #36119415 are all replies on the same post.

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Mr_SpongeWorthy wrote: This sounds great. Hopefully Bethesda has just disabled console for the beta version. Unfortunately, Bethesda games seem to have enough bugs that console is needed, at least occasionally, just to correct things! It's definitely a mode I will use, but not if it means I'll be unable to use console for bug-fixing.

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iamtoksic wrote: New Survival Mode: You can only opt into the survival once, to deter difficulty switching. The console is disabled.

I don't think access to the console is going to be an option when it goes live.

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Tantalus010 wrote: iamtoksic - It'll be reenabled for the full release. Bethesda games are too buggy to have that disabled permanently and they know it.

If they don't Modders always find a way!

[ShrimpBallin]

In response to post #36113280. #36113495, #36113620, #36113775, #36113885, #36115700, #36115745, #36116315, #36124765, #36125685 are all replies on the same post.

  Reveal hidden contents

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ellsdragon wrote: B*tch b*tch b*tch.
Seriously, that's what I'm getting out of almost 90% of the comments on here. "Mods are necessary, I can't live without them. It's stupid that they turned off the console, I'll need that too." It's a damn BETA. They want people to test it and see about how they can break it before allowing mods. And the console? If you can't play without cheating, that's not playing.
I can't even come up with a proper comparison because of the sheer amount of stupid being crammed into this community. If you have a problem with Beth wanting to try and fix the damn game, get off your ass and MAKE a damn game. Then you can understand how Beth feels when someone bitches about how sh*t your game is.

  Quote

kuhaica wrote: the console is mainly a debugger...

  Quote

jaitsu wrote: So in other words, ellsdragon, "WHAAA WHAAA WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY THE SAME AS ME I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PASS JUDGEMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE USE SOMETHING I DON"T WAAAAHHAAHAAHAHA"


Pull your head from your ass.

  Quote

Tantalus010 wrote: Normally I'd totally agree with you, but with the number of minor issues and bugs in Bethesda's games, the console actually IS a necessity. That's why I'm opting out on this one.

  Quote

mcchuggernaut wrote: Yeah, without the console how can I get the broken level 4 merchants to even show up at my settlements? Or get the brahmin or Preston off the roof of my house? Bethesda has known about these problems since release, but hasn't bothered to fix them yet. The console isn't for cheating in Fallout 4, it's basically for fixing all the bugs.

  Quote

Zzyxzz wrote: You know nothing Jon Snow, eeeh ellsdragon

  Quote

Ellendar12 wrote: The thing is though the point of a beta is for those bugs to actually annoy you enough that you actually report them. I imagine with console enabled every time you hit a minor bug many people will just console fix it and keep on rolling rather than giving bethesda the information they need to actually fix things. Remember, a beta isn't put our for our benefit, betas exist for the benefit of the development team and it isn't a surprise that it is designed for their benefit rather than our enjoyment.

  Quote

hivKORN wrote: you cant test these features
https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4s-all-new-survival-mode/2016/03/29/96
without one bug who was reported since release day.
Is it so hard to understand!?,
Console is debugger and a helper to get the id of an problematic object as accurately as possible. Instead of posting an description where they can find rock x and tree y and hole z in worldmesh.
But the report of the right id will change nothing.
Bethesda will always remain Bethesda.
"War never changes" :D

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TrentTheWanderer wrote: So what you are saying is that you're surprised this modding community wants to play with mods?

I think you might need to spend some time re-evaluating your expectations.

  Quote

Kilator wrote: Maybe if bethesda wanst so freaking lazy and optimized their damned piece of shaite game. These mods give me over 30 fps improvement. I literally cant play without them.

with mods enable, all the change will be overwrite by mods(i think all things(food,med...) will add a new flag(survive mode), just like they did in FNV). Therefore, you can't test s**t in the beta if your mods don't update for it.
so yeah, I think they need to force to disable mods in the beta.

but when it comes the stable update, I hope we can use mods.

btw, I use console for better screenshot Edited March 30, 2016 by julio131

[andreaperrino22]

easy question,whend this patch is ready(no more beta)we can use again our mod?

[dikr]

In response to post #36125380.

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jet4571 wrote: Everyone making an excuse for the beta patch disabling mods kindly explain why every single official not beta patch for FO4 has attempted to disable mods by clearing the plugins.txt.

Please explain why all previous Bethesda titles when they released a beta patch did not disable mods but all of a sudden FO4 needs a %100 vanilla no mod state and all those other games didn't.

Please explain why NMM has to uncheck and check the read only flag on the plugins.txt for every single not beta official patch.

I do get the logic of needing a clean environment for a beta test but that does defeat the very purpose of an open beta. Bethesda has the ability to do a vanilla beta test in house. Open betas are to see if something outside can mess up the programing and since this game is to be modded then mods is needed to see if the patch wont be more of a problem than a fix. Take 3DS Max or Photoshop, when they do an open beta they are not forcing you to use the base program, they expect and want plugins for them to be used. Yes both Photoshop and 3DS Max can use mods, they are called plugins but in reality they are mods. Autodesk and Adobe want their software tested in a real world environment because they are making patches and updates for that very environment. If they only made patches for their programs without plugins they will miss a whole lot of problems only they can fix. A video game needing real world environment testing is no different than the very tools used to make that video game. Think before making excuses for Bethesda. Bethesda doesn't need you to make excuses for them because they don't care if mod users complain to begin with.

My theory on why Bethesda is trying to disable mods is... duht dun duh.. Consoles. To make console mods possible and the nice little addition to the main menu I believe they are planning on doing away with the old way of enabling mods and have that all handled via the main menu. and they falsely believe that we will get stuck in the old way and not adapt. That's just my theory and it is the only one I can come up with that makes sense considering Bethesda's history.

It's a pain for us PC gamers to play without our beloved mods but I understand that their first priority is finding bugs and optimizing gameplay in the vanilla version. It's only a few months after launch and the game still requires a lot of fine tuning. Let alone a new expansion with new mechanics and other profound changes. Mods would open up a whole new can of worms of possible conflicts and would only serve to complicate and diffuse the feedback at this stage.

The best we can do at this time is seriously test it within its current restrictions and give constructive feedback on gameplay & bugs.

We just need a little patience before this (and the GECK) goes live and we can mod it to our heart's content and enjoy it for years to come (at least I know I will).

Edited March 30, 2016 by dikr

[jet4571]

In response to post #36125380. #36126925 is also a reply to the same post.

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jet4571 wrote: Everyone making an excuse for the beta patch disabling mods kindly explain why every single official not beta patch for FO4 has attempted to disable mods by clearing the plugins.txt.

Please explain why all previous Bethesda titles when they released a beta patch did not disable mods but all of a sudden FO4 needs a %100 vanilla no mod state and all those other games didn't.

Please explain why NMM has to uncheck and check the read only flag on the plugins.txt for every single not beta official patch.

I do get the logic of needing a clean environment for a beta test but that does defeat the very purpose of an open beta. Bethesda has the ability to do a vanilla beta test in house. Open betas are to see if something outside can mess up the programing and since this game is to be modded then mods is needed to see if the patch wont be more of a problem than a fix. Take 3DS Max or Photoshop, when they do an open beta they are not forcing you to use the base program, they expect and want plugins for them to be used. Yes both Photoshop and 3DS Max can use mods, they are called plugins but in reality they are mods. Autodesk and Adobe want their software tested in a real world environment because they are making patches and updates for that very environment. If they only made patches for their programs without plugins they will miss a whole lot of problems only they can fix. A video game needing real world environment testing is no different than the very tools used to make that video game. Think before making excuses for Bethesda. Bethesda doesn't need you to make excuses for them because they don't care if mod users complain to begin with.

My theory on why Bethesda is trying to disable mods is... duht dun duh.. Consoles. To make console mods possible and the nice little addition to the main menu I believe they are planning on doing away with the old way of enabling mods and have that all handled via the main menu. and they falsely believe that we will get stuck in the old way and not adapt. That's just my theory and it is the only one I can come up with that makes sense considering Bethesda's history.

  Quote

dikr wrote: It's a pain for us PC gamers to play without our beloved mods but I understand that their first priority is finding bugs and optimizing gameplay in the vanilla version. It's only a few months after launch and the game still requires a lot of fine tuning. Let alone a new expansion with new mechanics and other profound changes. Mods would open up a whole new can of worms of possible conflicts and would only serve to complicate and diffuse the feedback at this stage.

The best we can do at this time is seriously test it within its current restrictions and give constructive feedback on gameplay & bugs.

We just need a little patience before this (and the GECK) goes live and we can mod it to our heart's content and enjoy it for years to come (at least I know I will).

TLDR was that?

[AngryGamer94]

bethesda can't even make a proper survival mode without messing up the game

I'll wait for the talented moders of the nexus to make a REAL survival mod.

[Percephere]

In response to post #36113280. #36113495, #36113620, #36113775, #36113885, #36115700, #36115745, #36116315, #36124765, #36125685, #36126565 are all replies on the same post.

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ellsdragon wrote: B*tch b*tch b*tch.
Seriously, that's what I'm getting out of almost 90% of the comments on here. "Mods are necessary, I can't live without them. It's stupid that they turned off the console, I'll need that too." It's a damn BETA. They want people to test it and see about how they can break it before allowing mods. And the console? If you can't play without cheating, that's not playing.
I can't even come up with a proper comparison because of the sheer amount of stupid being crammed into this community. If you have a problem with Beth wanting to try and fix the damn game, get off your ass and MAKE a damn game. Then you can understand how Beth feels when someone bitches about how sh*t your game is.

  Quote

kuhaica wrote: the console is mainly a debugger...

  Quote

jaitsu wrote: So in other words, ellsdragon, "WHAAA WHAAA WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE PLAY THE SAME AS ME I FEEL LIKE I HAVE THE RIGHT TO PASS JUDGEMENT BECAUSE PEOPLE USE SOMETHING I DON"T WAAAAHHAAHAAHAHA"


Pull your head from your ass.

  Quote

Tantalus010 wrote: Normally I'd totally agree with you, but with the number of minor issues and bugs in Bethesda's games, the console actually IS a necessity. That's why I'm opting out on this one.

  Quote

mcchuggernaut wrote: Yeah, without the console how can I get the broken level 4 merchants to even show up at my settlements? Or get the brahmin or Preston off the roof of my house? Bethesda has known about these problems since release, but hasn't bothered to fix them yet. The console isn't for cheating in Fallout 4, it's basically for fixing all the bugs.

  Quote

Zzyxzz wrote: You know nothing Jon Snow, eeeh ellsdragon

  Quote

Ellendar12 wrote: The thing is though the point of a beta is for those bugs to actually annoy you enough that you actually report them. I imagine with console enabled every time you hit a minor bug many people will just console fix it and keep on rolling rather than giving bethesda the information they need to actually fix things. Remember, a beta isn't put our for our benefit, betas exist for the benefit of the development team and it isn't a surprise that it is designed for their benefit rather than our enjoyment.

  Quote

hivKORN wrote: you cant test these features
https://bethesda.net/#en/events/game/fallout-4s-all-new-survival-mode/2016/03/29/96
without one bug who was reported since release day.
Is it so hard to understand!?,
Console is debugger and a helper to get the id of an problematic object as accurately as possible. Instead of posting an description where they can find rock x and tree y and hole z in worldmesh.
But the report of the right id will change nothing.
Bethesda will always remain Bethesda.
"War never changes" :D

  Quote

TrentTheWanderer wrote: So what you are saying is that you're surprised this modding community wants to play with mods?

I think you might need to spend some time re-evaluating your expectations.

  Quote

Kilator wrote: Maybe if bethesda wanst so freaking lazy and optimized their damned piece of shaite game. These mods give me over 30 fps improvement. I literally cant play without them.

  Quote

julio131 wrote: with mods enable, all the change will be overwrite by mods(i think all things(food,med...) will add a new flag(survive mode), just like they did in FNV). Therefore, you can't test s**t in the beta if your mods don't update for it.
so yeah, I think they need to force to disable mods in the beta.

but when it comes the stable update, I hope we can use mods.

btw, I use console for better screenshot

They really should let us test it with mods. What with their plan to release mods to consoles,it would be disastrous if they ran into a whole bunch of problems with it at launch because they didn't test it thoroughly.