Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

[Kkatman]

In response to post #36179015. #36184145, #36187930, #36192500 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

I see a lot of garbage here from kiddies that just want the game to work the way they demand the game to work and have never done any legitimate testing in their life. BETA testing is NOT the playable game and is NOT intended to be the playable game. It is for TESTING purposes only.

 

If you don't want to help test the BETA survival mode, then please just disable beta updates on Steam.

 

If you insist on playing the beta with mods ( and figure out how) and it crashes - please don't bother to whine because they will just laugh at you for being so dumb as to think a beta test version was going to work as well as a released game.

 

IF you throw in a bunch or random variables (mods) then the test is invalid - that means you wasted hours of testing time that will be tossed as useless. Meaning that instead of the beta lasting 2 or 3 weeks it takes them 3 months to filter through the garbage from people that demand the test allow them to use mods. The intent of the beta test is to get a useful analysis of what really needs fixing. And if you throw in mods - or the quick fixes that the console allows the data is no longer useful, but just garbage.

 

The sooner they get the REAL data, untainted by random mods and quickie console fixes that allow you to keep playing instead of stopping and submitting a useful bug report the sooner they will release the actual survival mode update. :thumbsup:

hivKORN wrote: By your words, i hope they will fix problems from main game too and not only the survival changes! ;D

printerkop wrote: true, but since launch day there are a bunch of bugs in the game, which i adressed at the bug submitting page at Bethesda with a lot of extra information on my rig and the circumstances in which they occur in and screenshots and as much technical information i could give, i even know what the problems are, script errors and shader errors, and they haven't either bothered to fix them to this date, so how are we supposed to test a survival BETA if all the bugs i encountered haven't been fixed yet and still occur to this date ?

I develop games myself, and atleast half of the bugs i encountered must be easy to fix for an entire team of developers, but they just don't fix them.

Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on.

I agree that mods should not be applied to a BETA test, but making a BETA before all the other problems are fixed is just unwise.

Zzyxzz wrote: "Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on."

Yep, thats how it works today. To be very honest. They released the eat/drink/sleep feature, but its so f*#@ing bad. It's not even close to realism. Don't say, but it's beta. They already had this feature in NV and they weren't able to just carry it over. I call that very incompetent. Also they keep adding things in beta, which is also not the purpose of a beta. A beta is feature complete and is for testing the system. What they run is an alpha

Yes, people who want to test with mods... no words... but i also don't believe that they get any valueable feedback. I have looked into the beta thread. It's a mess.
Now you can argue about disabling the console, because you can hotload with console, which would destroy their plan. But disabling is also dumb because there is already a way to load mods (surprise surprise).

With a console we would be able to test their system even better, because we can tweak values, find the best values and report them.

And saving with sleeping... srsly... i lost faith in them. Fallout 4 is only playable in a realistic way with mods from this beautiful modding community. We can just hope for a solid game frame, but thats it

I originally signed up for the Beta because there are bugs in the base game that the beta fixes. Having opted out of the Beta now that it disables mods, I find myself struggling with the same broken features that I joined the beta to solve... none of the fixes that the beta has implemented have been carried over into the proper game.

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36179015. #36184145, #36187930, #36192500, #36192925 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

I see a lot of garbage here from kiddies that just want the game to work the way they demand the game to work and have never done any legitimate testing in their life. BETA testing is NOT the playable game and is NOT intended to be the playable game. It is for TESTING purposes only.

 

If you don't want to help test the BETA survival mode, then please just disable beta updates on Steam.

 

If you insist on playing the beta with mods ( and figure out how) and it crashes - please don't bother to whine because they will just laugh at you for being so dumb as to think a beta test version was going to work as well as a released game.

 

IF you throw in a bunch or random variables (mods) then the test is invalid - that means you wasted hours of testing time that will be tossed as useless. Meaning that instead of the beta lasting 2 or 3 weeks it takes them 3 months to filter through the garbage from people that demand the test allow them to use mods. The intent of the beta test is to get a useful analysis of what really needs fixing. And if you throw in mods - or the quick fixes that the console allows the data is no longer useful, but just garbage.

 

The sooner they get the REAL data, untainted by random mods and quickie console fixes that allow you to keep playing instead of stopping and submitting a useful bug report the sooner they will release the actual survival mode update. :thumbsup:

hivKORN wrote: By your words, i hope they will fix problems from main game too and not only the survival changes! ;D

printerkop wrote: true, but since launch day there are a bunch of bugs in the game, which i adressed at the bug submitting page at Bethesda with a lot of extra information on my rig and the circumstances in which they occur in and screenshots and as much technical information i could give, i even know what the problems are, script errors and shader errors, and they haven't either bothered to fix them to this date, so how are we supposed to test a survival BETA if all the bugs i encountered haven't been fixed yet and still occur to this date ?

I develop games myself, and atleast half of the bugs i encountered must be easy to fix for an entire team of developers, but they just don't fix them.

Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on.

I agree that mods should not be applied to a BETA test, but making a BETA before all the other problems are fixed is just unwise.

Zzyxzz wrote: "Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on."

Yep, thats how it works today. To be very honest. They released the eat/drink/sleep feature, but its so f*#@ing bad. It's not even close to realism. Don't say, but it's beta. They already had this feature in NV and they weren't able to just carry it over. I call that very incompetent. Also they keep adding things in beta, which is also not the purpose of a beta. A beta is feature complete and is for testing the system. What they run is an alpha

Yes, people who want to test with mods... no words... but i also don't believe that they get any valueable feedback. I have looked into the beta thread. It's a mess.
Now you can argue about disabling the console, because you can hotload with console, which would destroy their plan. But disabling is also dumb because there is already a way to load mods (surprise surprise).

With a console we would be able to test their system even better, because we can tweak values, find the best values and report them.

And saving with sleeping... srsly... i lost faith in them. Fallout 4 is only playable in a realistic way with mods from this beautiful modding community. We can just hope for a solid game frame, but thats it

Kkatman wrote: I originally signed up for the Beta because there are bugs in the base game that the beta fixes. Having opted out of the Beta now that it disables mods, I find myself struggling with the same broken features that I joined the beta to solve... none of the fixes that the beta has implemented have been carried over into the proper game.

all the bugs i've seen are still there in the BETA, LOD loading issues up close, shaders messing up completely giving a lot of meshes rainbow colored noise patterns, scripted errors that result in messed up gameplay, collision problems are plentyful.. and so on..

They should fix that before adding new stuff imo. Edited April 1, 2016 by Guest

[Eruadur]

In response to post #36179015. #36184145, #36187930, #36192500, #36192925, #36198740, #36205410, #36206150 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

I see a lot of garbage here from kiddies that just want the game to work the way they demand the game to work and have never done any legitimate testing in their life. BETA testing is NOT the playable game and is NOT intended to be the playable game. It is for TESTING purposes only.

 

If you don't want to help test the BETA survival mode, then please just disable beta updates on Steam.

 

If you insist on playing the beta with mods ( and figure out how) and it crashes - please don't bother to whine because they will just laugh at you for being so dumb as to think a beta test version was going to work as well as a released game.

 

IF you throw in a bunch or random variables (mods) then the test is invalid - that means you wasted hours of testing time that will be tossed as useless. Meaning that instead of the beta lasting 2 or 3 weeks it takes them 3 months to filter through the garbage from people that demand the test allow them to use mods. The intent of the beta test is to get a useful analysis of what really needs fixing. And if you throw in mods - or the quick fixes that the console allows the data is no longer useful, but just garbage.

 

The sooner they get the REAL data, untainted by random mods and quickie console fixes that allow you to keep playing instead of stopping and submitting a useful bug report the sooner they will release the actual survival mode update. :thumbsup:

hivKORN wrote: By your words, i hope they will fix problems from main game too and not only the survival changes! ;D

printerkop wrote: true, but since launch day there are a bunch of bugs in the game, which i adressed at the bug submitting page at Bethesda with a lot of extra information on my rig and the circumstances in which they occur in and screenshots and as much technical information i could give, i even know what the problems are, script errors and shader errors, and they haven't either bothered to fix them to this date, so how are we supposed to test a survival BETA if all the bugs i encountered haven't been fixed yet and still occur to this date ?

I develop games myself, and atleast half of the bugs i encountered must be easy to fix for an entire team of developers, but they just don't fix them.

Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on.

I agree that mods should not be applied to a BETA test, but making a BETA before all the other problems are fixed is just unwise.

Zzyxzz wrote: "Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on."

Yep, thats how it works today. To be very honest. They released the eat/drink/sleep feature, but its so f*#@ing bad. It's not even close to realism. Don't say, but it's beta. They already had this feature in NV and they weren't able to just carry it over. I call that very incompetent. Also they keep adding things in beta, which is also not the purpose of a beta. A beta is feature complete and is for testing the system. What they run is an alpha

Yes, people who want to test with mods... no words... but i also don't believe that they get any valueable feedback. I have looked into the beta thread. It's a mess.
Now you can argue about disabling the console, because you can hotload with console, which would destroy their plan. But disabling is also dumb because there is already a way to load mods (surprise surprise).

With a console we would be able to test their system even better, because we can tweak values, find the best values and report them.

And saving with sleeping... srsly... i lost faith in them. Fallout 4 is only playable in a realistic way with mods from this beautiful modding community. We can just hope for a solid game frame, but thats it

Kkatman wrote: I originally signed up for the Beta because there are bugs in the base game that the beta fixes. Having opted out of the Beta now that it disables mods, I find myself struggling with the same broken features that I joined the beta to solve... none of the fixes that the beta has implemented have been carried over into the proper game.

printerkop wrote: all the bugs i've seen are still there in the BETA, LOD loading issues up close, shaders messing up completely giving a lot of meshes rainbow colored noise patterns, scripted errors that result in messed up gameplay, collision problems are plentyful.. and so on..

They should fix that before adding new stuff imo.

printerkop wrote: No, one should never learn from his mistakes, you're right.

GrypNWryp wrote: @printerkop

"No, one should never learn from his mistakes, you're right."

Says the guy who (apparently) thought Fallout 4's issues would be different from previous installments to the series.

@printerkop

nvm Edited April 1, 2016 by Eruadur

[Eruadur]

In response to post #36190375.

Strokkin2112 wrote: I lost most of my Mods Wtf Lev 70 thanks

*sigh*

[Eruadur]

In response to post #36170555. #36171990, #36173870, #36176205, #36185395, #36188370 are all replies on the same post.

AzraelDC wrote: Just going to leave this here. You can take it as you will. FWIW, I don't think any of it looks good. But that's just my own take. Some of you here may have more informed opinions, after incorporating this info.

1. Bethesda staff on the forums aren't giving anyone straight answers about mods. They're sticking to their line of "We didn't disable mods" they just "changed a lot of stuff" and so "mods may not load" That is turning out to be quite an understatement as...
2. Someone uploaded this to the forums. http://imgur.com/jPJ96Fb It looks like the new Fallout.exe is phoning home to mods.services.bethesda.net.
3. There's nobody giving any kind of official word on any of this. Despite being asked direct questions.
4. The concern is that, based on recent beta activity, actions, and very misleading or possibly outright wrong information being given by Bethesda staff...sideloading of mods from 3rd party sites (like nexus) could be something they want to get people away from, in favor of their new Bethesda.net service.

Now, a number of people have said: "Bethesda would never do that." or "Bethesda knows better, such an act would be a worse PR nightmare than paid mods!" but, without a straight answer to direct questions...well, take the signs for what you will.

Bethesda wouldn't be the first game company to stab it's creative community in the back. The gaming industry is rife with that kind of behavior. Every game company was cool...until it wasn't anymore. Some of you will say "it's just a beta test!" some of you will say "God, they just want clean data"...and those may be fair points. But, if you look through the thread here: https://community.bethesda.net/thread/2936?start=90&tstart=0 you won't see anything about mods not working because they want "clean data". It's got to do with "significant changes"...none of which are articulated in any way.

So, as I said above. Take this info as you will. Bethesda staff are acting pretty cagey about it all. Personally, I am a bit concerned. That said, I think the community stalwarts are right: trying to exclude Nexus and mod sideloading would be a PR disaster for Bethesda. But that does not mean they won't do it anyway. Your mileage may vary here, concerning this information. We really wont know what Bethesda has in store until they drop it on us.

Crimsonhawk87 wrote: To me that's worse case scenario, the "nuclear" option, if you will.....the only reason they would go that far is if the numbers came back and showed that significantly more copies of FO4 were sold for consoles as opposed to the PC. In that case, they may decide that it would be more lucrative for them to completely handle modding on their end, there by controlling all content and a way to introduce paid modding to unsuspecting console whores, who have no clue about modding's true potential.

Yes, they would piss off a huge portion of their PC fanbase and creative community, but they could mollify some of the bigger modders with paid mods and revenue sharing, and could bank on many of the PC users rolling over and buying their next game anyway (I, for one, would wash my hand of them...but that's me). Granted all of this is just pure conjecture on my part, but it's the only reason I can see for them to take such a 180 degree turn on community modding.

DISCLAIMER: I do NOT believe this to be the case, this is just my hypothesis on why it would happened if they did, in fact, go the "nuclear" option. I fully support Bethesda and all of their hard work, and if they want to disable modding and the console command function for a BETA test, then so be it.

xaosbob wrote: This is important to pay attention to, I think. Over the last year, their Zenimax branch has had a similar problem with dev communication, which has some in the ESO community absolutely up in arms. I'm not an alarmist, but this is worth watching.

Also, for the record, I agree that the save restrictions on the beta are stupid. I get that someone thought it was a good idea for reasons, but not for any reasons that help a beta test.

Sepherose wrote: I asked Pete Hines about that possibility directly right before FO4 launched and all I got was a lot of dodging and essentially a "Trust what we have done for the past 13 years."

Well... I would have.... except everything is happening differently than the last 13 years.

austen1000 wrote: I think the "phoning home" thing is just going to be what the old version of the Skyrim Launcher did, which was downloading mods from the Steam Workshop. Though in this case, it would be from the Bethesda site instead of the workshop. I'm not too worried about that. I'll start worrying if mod disabling makes it out of Beta.

Sepherose wrote: The thing that bothers me about the phoning home part is that there was no indication that this was going to be in this beta. That for me at least is a problem.

Tin foiled hats anyone ?

[bben46]

Here's your hat, take your pick, there are several styles to choose from.

. http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww77/Tuarisbucket/Smileys/tinfoil.gif

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/xdrcx/afdbsmiley.gif

 

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/thewickedchild/Tin_foil_hat___Updated_by_Mirz123.gif

[rataje]

If people want cosnole back... i guess maybe they have to modify the console.SWF too

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36179015. #36184145, #36187930, #36192500, #36192925, #36198740, #36201355 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

I see a lot of garbage here from kiddies that just want the game to work the way they demand the game to work and have never done any legitimate testing in their life. BETA testing is NOT the playable game and is NOT intended to be the playable game. It is for TESTING purposes only.

 

If you don't want to help test the BETA survival mode, then please just disable beta updates on Steam.

 

If you insist on playing the beta with mods ( and figure out how) and it crashes - please don't bother to whine because they will just laugh at you for being so dumb as to think a beta test version was going to work as well as a released game.

 

IF you throw in a bunch or random variables (mods) then the test is invalid - that means you wasted hours of testing time that will be tossed as useless. Meaning that instead of the beta lasting 2 or 3 weeks it takes them 3 months to filter through the garbage from people that demand the test allow them to use mods. The intent of the beta test is to get a useful analysis of what really needs fixing. And if you throw in mods - or the quick fixes that the console allows the data is no longer useful, but just garbage.

 

The sooner they get the REAL data, untainted by random mods and quickie console fixes that allow you to keep playing instead of stopping and submitting a useful bug report the sooner they will release the actual survival mode update. :thumbsup:

hivKORN wrote: By your words, i hope they will fix problems from main game too and not only the survival changes! ;D

printerkop wrote: true, but since launch day there are a bunch of bugs in the game, which i adressed at the bug submitting page at Bethesda with a lot of extra information on my rig and the circumstances in which they occur in and screenshots and as much technical information i could give, i even know what the problems are, script errors and shader errors, and they haven't either bothered to fix them to this date, so how are we supposed to test a survival BETA if all the bugs i encountered haven't been fixed yet and still occur to this date ?

I develop games myself, and atleast half of the bugs i encountered must be easy to fix for an entire team of developers, but they just don't fix them.

Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on.

I agree that mods should not be applied to a BETA test, but making a BETA before all the other problems are fixed is just unwise.

Zzyxzz wrote: "Instead, like with FO3 and FNV those bugs are probably going to be fixed by modders later on."

Yep, thats how it works today. To be very honest. They released the eat/drink/sleep feature, but its so f*#@ing bad. It's not even close to realism. Don't say, but it's beta. They already had this feature in NV and they weren't able to just carry it over. I call that very incompetent. Also they keep adding things in beta, which is also not the purpose of a beta. A beta is feature complete and is for testing the system. What they run is an alpha

Yes, people who want to test with mods... no words... but i also don't believe that they get any valueable feedback. I have looked into the beta thread. It's a mess.
Now you can argue about disabling the console, because you can hotload with console, which would destroy their plan. But disabling is also dumb because there is already a way to load mods (surprise surprise).

With a console we would be able to test their system even better, because we can tweak values, find the best values and report them.

And saving with sleeping... srsly... i lost faith in them. Fallout 4 is only playable in a realistic way with mods from this beautiful modding community. We can just hope for a solid game frame, but thats it

Kkatman wrote: I originally signed up for the Beta because there are bugs in the base game that the beta fixes. Having opted out of the Beta now that it disables mods, I find myself struggling with the same broken features that I joined the beta to solve... none of the fixes that the beta has implemented have been carried over into the proper game.

printerkop wrote: all the bugs i've seen are still there in the BETA, LOD loading issues up close, shaders messing up completely giving a lot of meshes rainbow colored noise patterns, scripted errors that result in messed up gameplay, collision problems are plentyful.. and so on..

They should fix that before adding new stuff imo.

Eruadur wrote: @printerkop

Did they patch all the mistakes in FO3/FNV before releasing the DLC's?

So why would they do that now?

No, one should never learn from his mistakes, you're right.

[xhaven]

So reading through the comments here I've come to the sad conclusion that most people are idiots :(

[xDeme]

In response to post #36190375. #36201395 is also a reply to the same post.

Strokkin2112 wrote: I lost most of my Mods Wtf Lev 70 thanks

Eruadur wrote: *sigh*

It's April fools