Fallout 4 Survival Mode Beta

[Deleted631007User]

In response to post #36216715. #36226145 is also a reply to the same post.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

printerkop wrote: that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times.

Honestly, they should just give us camping equipment, because if they're trying to emulate things like frostfall we should already have it. I made a post about this in the forum and it just got buried much like many of the other actual suggestions that are posted there.

For me at least, so long as they don't find a way to prevent mods from loading in survival and they allow us to use the console again, none of this will really matter. I can live with the changes so long as myself and others can tweak it on our own time.

But understand that there's a lot of people in the forum that actively oppose your ability to do what you want, because they cannot cope with the idea of having choices and options. Edited April 2, 2016 by Guest

[popcorn71]

In response to post #36216715. #36226145, #36226895 are all replies on the same post.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

printerkop wrote: that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times.

Vicalliose wrote: Honestly, they should just give us camping equipment, because if they're trying to emulate things like frostfall we should already have it. I made a post about this in the forum and it just got buried much like many of the other actual suggestions that are posted there.

For me at least, so long as they don't find a way to prevent mods from loading in survival and they allow us to use the console again, none of this will really matter. I can live with the changes so long as myself and others can tweak it on our own time.

But understand that there's a lot of people in the forum that actively oppose your ability to do what you want, because they cannot cope with the idea of having choices and options.

Yes, well, choices and options are hard. They make you think and thinking is...painful. Its honestly very discouraging that some people are more comfortable being told what to do then they are trying to figure out what feels right for them. And don't even get me started on the crazy amount of fanboyism. Edited April 2, 2016 by popcorn71

[Scynix]

In response to post #36216715. #36226145, #36226895, #36227235 are all replies on the same post.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

printerkop wrote: that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times.

Vicalliose wrote: Honestly, they should just give us camping equipment, because if they're trying to emulate things like frostfall we should already have it. I made a post about this in the forum and it just got buried much like many of the other actual suggestions that are posted there.

For me at least, so long as they don't find a way to prevent mods from loading in survival and they allow us to use the console again, none of this will really matter. I can live with the changes so long as myself and others can tweak it on our own time.

But understand that there's a lot of people in the forum that actively oppose your ability to do what you want, because they cannot cope with the idea of having choices and options.

popcorn71 wrote: Yes, well, choices and options are hard. They make you think and thinking is...painful. Its honestly very discouraging that some people are more comfortable being told what to do then they are trying to figure out what feels right for them. And don't even get me started on the crazy amount of fanboyism.

They disabled console and mods purely for testing. Edited April 2, 2016 by Scynix

[Scynix]

In response to post #36176290. #36185910, #36213820, #36214055, #36223055, #36223765 are all replies on the same post.

Sebastianus wrote: I really like most of those changes, but I'm not going to participate in this beta.

1. Mods I have literally double the FPS count, eliminate stuttering and most other significant bugs that Bethesda never seemed to care about for a decade (only two gamebreakers I can't get rid off: hotkey switching and texture unloading).
2. Lack of fast travel is a no-go. There is a line between immersion "for fun" and utter annoyance. I'm not willing to waste 10+ minutes to get to that damned settlement, which can't defend itself with 200+ defense and 3 meter tall wall without my help.
3. Saving got gimped way too hard. This is just another annoyance, not immersion. Not to mention that since the previous patch I occassionally get completely random CTDs.

In other words, I'll wait till the "official" update and mods that deal with the unnecessary annoyance.

Snowskeeper wrote: Re: 1, Bethesda needs to be able to know, for certain, which problems are caused by the changes to the base game in Survival mode. Mods, even optimization mods, make that more difficult to verify without having access to all of your information.
Re: 2, I haven't fast-travelled in Fallout 4 as of yet. It's a small map, relatively speaking, and there's enough going on in it that I never felt bored during my wanderings. That said, I also usually have an audiobook or podcast on in the background, so that's probably making me a little more tolerant of it.
I don't know what you mean about save gimping. I'll have to find a more complete version of the change log.

EDIT: Yeah, save gimping is bad; hopefully they change that.

Sebastianus wrote: I'm not stupid.
I can see the reason behind disabling mods in a beta update, but that's also a major reason I'm not willing to get it.
Plus, they are still to clean up after their last stunt with mod tampering, so I'm not holding my breath here.
On the other hand so far all "beta" updates went "official" without any changes.

The map is cramped to the point navigating it (which doesn't have a "search" function) is terribadly awful.
Finding anything in the Boston's "downtown" is pretty much impossible without comparing Pipboy with a location's image from the wikia.
Plus there is literally nothing worth of value, except for XP for re-visiting places and killing the same enemies over and over again.

jbMnemonic wrote: Hear, hear !!! - I second your opinion - Bethesda, please take note. I can still only play in Power armour as my pipboy is disabled despite having tried every single post's solution available everywhere, more than once, in fact 10's of times. :(:(:(

Scynix wrote: What was the point of this post? Who cares why you aren't going to use it?

I like both of the things you don't like.

Disabling fast travel gives alternate travel methods like the vertibird signal an actual purpose.

Forcing saves to be at static sleep locations forces players to be more careful about decisions, which in turn makes the speech checks more legitimate. If I fail a speech check I have to reload all the way back at whatever bed I was at last time if I want to try again.

See what I did there? I listed reasons its good. Does anyone care? No. :D

Vicalliose wrote: So basically you're saying that you don't want to be allowed to save scum because you cannot trust yourself not to do it? That's your problem, stop projecting your issues onto everyone else. You can also actively make the decision not to fast travel, why take it away from other people? Because you can't trust yourself not to use it either?

Also don't even bring up vertibirds as a good alternative to fast travel, that suggests that the player would only ever side with the brotherhood, and with as limited as players decisions already are in Fallout 4, basically FORCING you to choose the same side just to get a major benefit is just stupidly limiting.

Do you even understand that the survival mode is not just about locking you out of saves and fast traveling? There's features in there that many people have wanted for long time without ever wanting limited save and travel, things that the very poster you are replying to said they like. Do you lack the ability to understand that other people think differently about what makes a survival mode fun?

Uhm vicalliose..... have you even played the game completely to finish? The Brotherhood aren't the only people who get access to the vertibird as a form of transport.....

I was gonna respond to the rest of your droning, but as soon as I saw you hadn't actually -played the game- I kinda gave up. Sorry.

[bubinga64]

I'm looking forward to the new survival mode. I really think it should have been included in the game at launch as I would have loved to play that version to start. As long as they will still allow mods I'll be happy with any and all additions to immersion. Currently I'm an extremely immersive player. I actually WALK everywhere, and it even bothers me that the towns are unrealistically close. So if I want to mod in a sleeping bag because in real life I need to sleep so I can go to work, I should be able to sleep in an area where I'm not going to get attacked.

 

Immersive fast travel would be nice if it was balanced and not just usable if you are on the brotherhoods side.

 

[popcorn71]

In response to post #36216715. #36226145, #36226895, #36227235, #36227270, #36228175 are all replies on the same post.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

printerkop wrote: that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times.

Vicalliose wrote: Honestly, they should just give us camping equipment, because if they're trying to emulate things like frostfall we should already have it. I made a post about this in the forum and it just got buried much like many of the other actual suggestions that are posted there.

For me at least, so long as they don't find a way to prevent mods from loading in survival and they allow us to use the console again, none of this will really matter. I can live with the changes so long as myself and others can tweak it on our own time.

But understand that there's a lot of people in the forum that actively oppose your ability to do what you want, because they cannot cope with the idea of having choices and options.

popcorn71 wrote: Yes, well, choices and options are hard. They make you think and thinking is...painful. Its honestly very discouraging that some people are more comfortable being told what to do then they are trying to figure out what feels right for them. And don't even get me started on the crazy amount of fanboyism.

Scynix wrote: They disabled console and mods purely for testing.

printerkop wrote: @Vicalliose, camping equipment would be nice indeed, seems that a lot of raiders have bedrolls in the field too around a nice campfire.

@popcorn71, exactly.
I would welcome the idea of being able to tailor every single aspect of the game, cause you would be able to make it easier, but you would also be able to make it harder, by turning of saving alltogether for the kiddies that want permadeath for instance.
And once you have set everything to your liking you won't be able to change the settings anymore, then you would have to start a new game, then the braggers can set permadeath and brag that have played through the entire game without dying once, and i can just set stuff the way i want it to be, everybody happy...wish it was that simple to make everybody happy..some people are hell bent on being unhappy, not much we can do about that..

Mod and the console being disable really aren't the point here. The issue is that Bethesda tends to make very odd and often very ham fisted design decisions with out any regard to how thing will work outside their controlled testing environment. That and the fact that they keep tacking on more features to the game with out fixing the existing bug. That really doesn't inspire confidence in their ability and just adds to the image of them being tone deaf. Edited April 2, 2016 by popcorn71

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36216715. #36226145, #36226895, #36227235, #36227270, #36227975 are all replies on the same post.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

printerkop wrote: that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times.

Vicalliose wrote: Honestly, they should just give us camping equipment, because if they're trying to emulate things like frostfall we should already have it. I made a post about this in the forum and it just got buried much like many of the other actual suggestions that are posted there.

For me at least, so long as they don't find a way to prevent mods from loading in survival and they allow us to use the console again, none of this will really matter. I can live with the changes so long as myself and others can tweak it on our own time.

But understand that there's a lot of people in the forum that actively oppose your ability to do what you want, because they cannot cope with the idea of having choices and options.

popcorn71 wrote: Yes, well, choices and options are hard. They make you think and thinking is...painful. Its honestly very discouraging that some people are more comfortable being told what to do then they are trying to figure out what feels right for them. And don't even get me started on the crazy amount of fanboyism.

Scynix wrote: They disabled console and mods purely for testing.

popcorn71 wrote: Mod and the console being disable really aren't the point here. The issue is that Bethesda tends to make very odd and offend very ham fisted design decisions with out any regard to how thing will work outside their controlled testing environment. That and the fact that they keep tacking on more features to the game with out fixing the existing bug. That really doesn't inspire confidence in their ability and just adds to the image of them being tone deaf.

@Vicalliose, camping equipment would be nice indeed, seems that a lot of raiders have bedrolls in the field too around a nice campfire.

@popcorn71, exactly.
I would welcome the idea of being able to tailor every single aspect of the game, cause you would be able to make it easier, but you would also be able to make it harder, by turning of saving alltogether for the kiddies that want permadeath for instance.
And once you have set everything to your liking you won't be able to change the settings anymore, then you would have to start a new game, then the braggers can set permadeath and brag that have played through the entire game without dying once, and i can just set stuff the way i want it to be, everybody happy...wish it was that simple to make everybody happy..some people are hell bent on being unhappy, not much we can do about that.. Edited April 2, 2016 by Guest

[Deleted7103646User]

In response to post #36202240. #36212170, #36216700 are all replies on the same post.

bben46 wrote:

Here's your hat, take your pick, there are several styles to choose from.

. http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww77/Tuarisbucket/Smileys/tinfoil.gif

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/xdrcx/afdbsmiley.gif

 

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo112/thewickedchild/Tin_foil_hat___Updated_by_Mirz123.gif

Sepherose wrote: That's a bit rude. People are concerned because things are happening very differently than before and Bethesda are being pretty dodgy about the changes. It's entirely reasonable to be concerned about it. Beyond that, so far, every change that has made it harder to activate mods in previous Beta patches has remained once they released. That in and of itself is a reason to be alarmed, as they have never taken action like that before.

popcorn71 wrote: Not only is that a bit rude, I find it rather unbecoming of a moderator. I didn't spend my hard earned money on a lifetime premium membership to see a moderator slinging insults at their own members...How exactly can people be confident that you can be impartial when you are acting like just another troll???

Popcorn is right.
He should get a refund and still keep being a premium member.. Edited April 2, 2016 by Guest

[Deleted631007User]

In response to post #36216715. #36226145, #36226895, #36227235, #36227270, #36227975, #36228175 are all replies on the same post.

Vicalliose wrote: From what experience I've had so far, I'd say the beta testing forum is a toxic mess and a lost cause.

It's just an endless back and forth mess of people either begging for toggles, or you have MLG kool kids that want the mode to stay exactly as it is and lock people out of the console and mods completely because they want survival to be a "bragging rights" mode. It's rare that you actually see legitimate bugs on the front page.

The mode isn't perfect, I think it needs tweaks and maybe actual survival tools added for the player to use, in-order to make it more accessible. But nobody there is willing to have a realistic discussion about it as far as I can tell.

printerkop wrote: that's what happens a lot on the internet, more so even then in real life.
i think that mostly comes from people getting agitated at other because they have a different opinion, that stands in the way of a meaningful conversation.

i agree with you, survival mode isn't perfect, but as long as you can stay alive it's fun so far.

i must admit that i had a few moments that i almost started to hate the game, once after a crash while i had been playing for an hour and actually did just about everything like a master, and once when i inadvertenly stumbled into a random encounter with like 6 mines..

the saving at beds options is going to make me mod that feature into me being able to save once a gamehour, cause that can become frustrating after like 5 times.

Vicalliose wrote: Honestly, they should just give us camping equipment, because if they're trying to emulate things like frostfall we should already have it. I made a post about this in the forum and it just got buried much like many of the other actual suggestions that are posted there.

For me at least, so long as they don't find a way to prevent mods from loading in survival and they allow us to use the console again, none of this will really matter. I can live with the changes so long as myself and others can tweak it on our own time.

But understand that there's a lot of people in the forum that actively oppose your ability to do what you want, because they cannot cope with the idea of having choices and options.

popcorn71 wrote: Yes, well, choices and options are hard. They make you think and thinking is...painful. Its honestly very discouraging that some people are more comfortable being told what to do then they are trying to figure out what feels right for them. And don't even get me started on the crazy amount of fanboyism.

Scynix wrote: They disabled console and mods purely for testing.

popcorn71 wrote: Mod and the console being disable really aren't the point here. The issue is that Bethesda tends to make very odd and often very ham fisted design decisions with out any regard to how thing will work outside their controlled testing environment. That and the fact that they keep tacking on more features to the game with out fixing the existing bug. That really doesn't inspire confidence in their ability and just adds to the image of them being tone deaf.

printerkop wrote: @Vicalliose, camping equipment would be nice indeed, seems that a lot of raiders have bedrolls in the field too around a nice campfire.

@popcorn71, exactly.
I would welcome the idea of being able to tailor every single aspect of the game, cause you would be able to make it easier, but you would also be able to make it harder, by turning of saving alltogether for the kiddies that want permadeath for instance.
And once you have set everything to your liking you won't be able to change the settings anymore, then you would have to start a new game, then the braggers can set permadeath and brag that have played through the entire game without dying once, and i can just set stuff the way i want it to be, everybody happy...wish it was that simple to make everybody happy..some people are hell bent on being unhappy, not much we can do about that..

@Scynix
The developers called it a "feature". How many times does it have to be repeated in this single thread before people notice this?

Hell, why isn't this post just linked on the OP: https://community.bethesda.net/thread/2952

Why don't you actually get involved in the beta testing before you start reaming people out for criticizing it? It's bad enough dealing with the "it's perfect" people, without having to deal with the completely uninformed on this forum. More people should just go there and see first-hand what a cluster f*#@ it is.

On the bright side: Another employee stated that they were acknowledging people's feedback on the matter, which isn't exactly the same as saying they're going to give the console back, but odds are they won't go against an almost universal opinion... hopefully. Edited April 2, 2016 by Guest

[chardock]

Personally I see disabling the console as a good move. Having a magical button that makes it easier looming over your head as you do something difficult removes something for me. I will likely use mods with it to round out the features once it comes out of beta, but likely would try hard to keep within balance the whole way.