Synthetic truth?

[k361]

 

Kellogg ordered the massacre at University Point. Synths given their programming carried out his order. So I find it hard to believe the institute actually condones such actions, given most of so called atrocities were orchestrated by impatient and ruthless outsourcing mercenary.

So, color me stupid if this was discussed at some point already, but there's been a bug in my head ever since I finished F4 for the first time. I noticed few things that bothered me for a while.
Firstly I thought the institute to be major adversary comparable to Enclave.
Though technically even Enclave meant good according to their ideals.
But secondly there are several cases throughout Commonwealth that can be explained quite easily.
A - Recruitment, yes Institute actually recruits people with outstanding decree of an scientific ability. This could count as The Kidnapping, not taking Shaun into consideration, cause the operation in Vault 111 was sloppy at best in my eyes.

B - Replacements, not sure what to think about them. The only case I came across was a farm, but I had my suspicion that the entire family is actually composed of synths on a remote experimental farm with few Human helpers around.

Personally I never witness of any replacements, so could be just THE boogeyman.

There is lot more to discuss but I am more interested what others think about the whole Boogeyman issue, personally I see factions claiming to be fighting the institute more ruthless and manipulative than Institute seems to be.

 

As for the Institute main goal, I highly doubt they actually know what it is.

Edited April 1, 2016 by k361

[robhartman9]

if you want to see if any synths have infiltrated your settlement make a save then kill everyone. Make note of who has synthetic parts and load your save.

[k361]

if you want to see if any synths have infiltrated your settlement make a save then kill everyone. Make note of who has synthetic parts and load your save.

 

Splendid suggestion, though my point is to try explaining Institute actions and myths on psychological level rather as I highly doubt Madison Li would sign herself into some cyberpunk-ish hell.

But regardless Institute is rather shrouded in mystery, some parts at least.

[TheVampireDante]

A - Recruitment, yes Institute actually recruits people with outstanding decree of an scientific ability. This could count as The Kidnapping, not taking Shaun into consideration, cause the operation in Vault 111 was sloppy at best in my eyes.

 

It would, since in those cases people do appear to "vanish" from the world. How people on the surface linked it to the institute is another matter, but the existing case in game (later quest) is a likely indicator of that.

 

As for Shaun's case: The vault was an unknown location: The institute had no idea if it was safe or not to enter, so they sent their most hardened and dangerous operative in case the vault was infested with ghouls/roaches/molerats/squatters/whatever - the only problem is, Kellogg has no diplomatic skills.

that entire operation could have been resolved in a much more sedate and organized manner if someone with some "people skills" had been there, and explained that all three (Nate, Nora and Shaun) were being taken somewhere safe.

 

There was no need to alienate the parents at all, and the refreezing of the "backup" looked more like Kellogg's idea on scene since he screwed up the initial encounter by killing what could have been a valuable asset to the institute.

 

 

B - Replacements, not sure what to think about them. The only case I came across was a farm, but I had my suspicion that the entire family is actually composed of synths on a remote experimental farm with few Human helpers around.

 

There's numerous mentions of replacements. The encounter with "Art" and his Synth replacement is an ongoing example you have to deal with, and:

 

 

Roger Warwick, Major McDunough being two previously successful efforts you learn about.

 

 

 

Personally I never witness of any replacements, so could be just THE boogeyman.

 

See above.

 

 

There is lot more to discuss but I am more interested what others think about the whole Boogeyman issue, personally I see factions claiming to be fighting the institute more ruthless and manipulative than Institute seems to be.

 

Each faction has it's own issues and motives, and some of their methods might not be the best for everyone, but then - those factions using those methods aren't usually concerned about what others think of them.

 

As for the Institute main goal, I highly doubt they actually know what it is.

 

Maybe at one point, but they do seem to have either lost track of their goal or have twisted it into something new over time.

 

From what it appears (in my opinion) the long term solution they are working in mass production of advanced synths to be used to populate the world, controlled by the institute for the purpose of rebuilding the world to be a less dangerous and hazard-filled place so that humanity can start down the road of regaining proper, functional civilization. The issue is that they seem to have went about things the wrong way, and after early problems and failed situations - they've taken the stance of "we're doing this our way whether you like it or not, so stay out of our way".

 

Which of course, paints them as the bad guys and sets everyone against them - which over time, has indeed turned them into the bad guys (us vs them mentality).

[Fonger]

if you want to see if any synths have infiltrated your settlement make a save then kill everyone. Make note of who has synthetic parts and load your save.

been there - done that - didn't work

 

got the mod instead

[k361]

Actually there is a way, I just seen on YT (Thanks Emma), basically you do this, oh and hardly to happen in Sanctuary as Sanctuary is essential.

Here goes, you pester settlers with VATS checking them, which doesn't do anything apart from small detail, if it's a synth they are likely to enter panic mode and remain in such, once this occurs you dress them differently and wait for possible attack, if you see your picked settlers among attackers, bingo. Killing them while they panic or acting cautious (weapon drawn) counts as combat kill and may yield synth components. Otherwise it is a failure.

 

@Dante. Given "humans" in the institute do not go outside apart from field agents it is indeed considered as dissapearance.

Though so far there is only one occurence you actively partake in I reckon and that's if you became Minutemen general, Shaun asks you to order your men down and convince the recruit peacefully.

 

I know about Warwick and Mayor as well, though biggest shock came in when...wait...I shouldn't spoil if you haven't done BoS questline before.

 

As for motives, BoS were always paranoid, since the beginning of Fallout Series I view them as somewhat watered down Enclave, but that's fine.

Railroad is kinda naive in their efforts as from what I seen, they are "killing" original subjects of the rescue efforts replacing them. Though I could be wrong.

And Covenant? Well...That's another story which I haven't fully covered yet. Yet I still see nothing wrong with Institute's efforts to an extent, I mean they try to walk whatever path they chose to no matter what the surface people think, narrowing it down, it all begun with Mister Carter and infamous massacre I guess. Every faction has it's pros and cons and yet their goal is perhaps the same. Though Minutemen at least go with the most humane way perhaps.

 

Although regarding Shaun I completely understand the dismay, to the PC it all happened "Yesterday" though Shaun spent more time in the institute technically having no memory of his parents. Though the reason why he released the PC from the stasis on his deathbed still eludes me as it is kinda too late. Normally the PC neglects everything and carries out their revenge completely given the memory is still fresh. Though important question based on choices and quests done prior...are we any different from Kellogg?

Edited April 2, 2016 by k361

[Fatalmasterpiece]

There ARE people who have been replaced by synths in the commonwealth, their original human version murdered. There is an event in downtown Boston of a man randomly fighting... himself. You can find synth parts on one of them.

 

The Institute is actively murdering civilians and replacing them with synths. It's not obvious but rather hush hush in the game.

[k361]

There ARE people who have been replaced by synths in the commonwealth, their original human version murdered. There is an event in downtown Boston of a man randomly fighting... himself. You can find synth parts on one of them.

 

The Institute is actively murdering civilians and replacing them with synths. It's not obvious but rather hush hush in the game.

 

Hmm kinda doesn't make sense, claiming their goal is noble contradicts with what they actually do it seems. As to why would they murder people to replace them is beyond me, apart from rather twisted theory that Institute actually wants to populate the world with synths which is nonsense cause scientists wouldn't live long enough to enjoy whatever goal they set for themselves. I mean it won't take long for synths to take over given they are better than humans.

[CyrusAmell]

 

There ARE people who have been replaced by synths in the commonwealth, their original human version murdered. There is an event in downtown Boston of a man randomly fighting... himself. You can find synth parts on one of them.

 

The Institute is actively murdering civilians and replacing them with synths. It's not obvious but rather hush hush in the game.

 

Hmm kinda doesn't make sense, claiming their goal is noble contradicts with what they actually do it seems. As to why would they murder people to replace them is beyond me, apart from rather twisted theory that Institute actually wants to populate the world with synths which is nonsense cause scientists wouldn't live long enough to enjoy whatever goal they set for themselves. I mean it won't take long for synths to take over given they are better than humans.

 

 

*Endgame Spoilers Below*

The Institute doesn't really have an overarching set goal in such a grand conspiratorial light.

 

The big thing for the Institute right now is Phase 3, which is the Director's term for upgrading the Institute with a fully-functional and advanced nuclear reactor that will ensure the power needs of the Institute are fulfilled for the foreseeable future. After that, the set goal of Phase 4, will likely be an Institute aligned player's decision.

 

With that in mind, each department has its own goals and projects - for instance the Bioscience division had the patriarch of Warwick Homestead replaced so his synth duplicate could raise a few genetically altered crops to see how they turn out. This was purely on the initiative of the Bioscience division, along with the assistance of SRB for the needed muscle and the Robotics Division for the replacement synth.

 

There does appear to be chatter about using synths on the surface for some larger goal, but the reality above ground does not seem to back that up. The current Director, Father, seems to be adamant that the Institute's main goal is to look out for itself and ensure it can remain isolated if needed. I have seen no evidence that the Institute's ambitions go further than the odd experiment like that one with the Warwick Homestead - which is backed up by the vision seen by Mama Murphy using her Sight. "You will not be loved" she said, "but you will save humanity. However you choose to define it."

 

As for the Gen 3 Synths, they seem to originally have been a product of science for its own sake (to see if they could) and later as a source of valuable labor. The Institute is constantly expanding itself further below ground and for such a large-scale project the Gen 3 synths (operating essentially as slave labor) are perfectly suited - more so than the Gen 2 Synths that are employed to guard them. That is not to discount the role of Gen 3 Synths as spies and agents on the surface, the odd replaced settler or political figure, along with the epitome of their combat potential in the form of the Coursers. However, the institute does not seem to rely solely on Gen 3 Synths and regularly make use of paid human informants. To date, all of the Caravan Merchants in the game work for the Institute in this capacity.

 

I am interested to know if it really was Kellog who decided to wipe University Point off the map, it does sound like something he would do and the Institute did rely on him for surface operations.

 

As for the Institute itself, I do not believe that it is so far gone as to be completely irredeemable. As a faction they are capable of good, and as the player is in charge they can try and make them do such with some effort. If the institute can be made to halt further abductions of common civilians and perhaps take steps to increase the happiness of the Gen 3 Synths who feel oppressed then it will have a chance to better itself. Although the last part would be pretty tricky by all accounts...

 

Still, I think the best argument for the Institute being a possible force for good going into the future is the drug addled ramblings of Mama Murphy (Institute at 2:26):

 

Edited April 3, 2016 by CyrusAmell

[k361]

I think I search through whole University Point and one holotape or note piece states that it was him whom grew impatient and ordered the wipe.

I actually always pick Institute at the end, not sure if out of habit by now, originally I rushed the game on first playthrough only now discovering things and searching through wasteland as I did ever since first Fallout:) In the beginning I picked Institute ending cause it sounded most logical to me, father has some solid claim and reasonings.

Edited April 3, 2016 by k361